238 replies to this topic

[Vhetra]

Chavette, on 20 May 2013 - 04:31 PM, said:

I've been jumping since then and its the jumping that's getting nerfed, not the HGN-HM. Nobody suspected it getting nerfed when the HM came out, its was just a few phrachts jumping, and the HM wasn't even better until it got elited and all HGN-s came out, which was when the real **** hit the fan. Its not like I'm asking for a refund I'm just bringing it to their attention that we're gonna get the short end of this bull.


And I get 600-900 on a laserstalker, whats your point?

That you said the HM is only for poptarting and sniping

Which I prove wrong on a daily basis with my HM

Do you even read the ******* posts?

Besides, you can't compare a laser boat to a fairly balanced build that puts out decent damage. That's stupid and avoiding the point.

Edited by Vhetra, 20 May 2013 - 04:35 PM.

[OneEyed Jack]

DV McKenna, on 20 May 2013 - 05:36 AM, said:

DPS has never been useful in a mech game compared with Alpha, even JJ nerfs won't change that.

You must be new here.

[TB Azrael]

Chavette, on 19 May 2013 - 10:01 AM, said:

RNG coming to a neighbourhood near you! Couple this with the current ballistic hit detection...

26:00
http://nogutsnogalaxy.net/ngng-72/

The bigger the mech, the more the shake. The longer the range, the more disruptive the same amount of shake.

The point of the heavy metal is the 5JJs. It doesn't have the hardpoint arsenal to make it an effective brawler, can't fit an AC20. It is a born sniper mech.

The purposed change is a two stab combo against the same chassis.


How I feel:

1, Its been said by top PGI brass that they wouldn't like to add any random factors to keep it a skill game. Different day, different bait-switch?

2, If for this reason my $38 investment gets blown to uselessness, I'll be pissed, and I mean really pissed.

3, I'm not a hard headed guy, I see where they come from, even though IMO its the high alpha/pinpoint dmg plague and not the JJs in general.
Proof: there weren't any problems before the Highlanders, when only Phract players were jumping 24/7.



Even if you break the promise, and start adding RNG to compensate for fixable bad design choices, the shake amount should be flat.
Why?

The same amount of shake will not distrupt your 200m laser game, while the same amount of shake at 1000m erppc range will mess it up pretty badly. Light mechs could happily operate with a flat shake rate.


To write something useful too: A good start would be only shake while going up(pressing the button).
Variant based quirks for designated sniper mechs with armaments capable of lower alpha (since thats what you are trying to combat) seems logical too.

Yes, I know the feature isn't yet in, yes I don't know what it will be like exactly. The reason for the thread is the same reason PGI are demoing the new UI. Easier to get it right the first time with helpful input than doing something and changing it around(or possibly never changing it, or changing it after half a year or revolts, MG style), and that's what I wish to provide here.

Summary:
Nerfing JJ doesn't make sense, its the pinpoint/alpha plague you are looking for.
Stop trying to combat thirst with food.
For reference, two-thirds of the player base wasn't complaining in the jumping phract era.

Change itself isn't a bad thing but the biggest loser of this is the hero mech many payed for, in good faith of PGI not adding JJ shake to a JJ oriented mech.

TLDR; First 5 lines.

Edit:
The topic of discussion is the Heavy Metal hero mech, not poppers, or JJers in general! There is a reason why its not in "gameplay balance" section.

Maybe they will get it now.

Bluntly - if you think the Heavy Metal is dead due to a change to JJs - just un-install and move on for you seem to be a one-trick pony.
First thing I did, and probably alot of people did, upon buying that mech - removed all the JJs and added actually effective weaponry. (I use two different loadouts on it as well)
I finally decided to add one back due to it tripping over it's own two feet on any pebble and since I had half the needed weight left over anyway.

Oh and btw there were never 'phracts jumping 24/7 before the highlander - it was the ppc buff (roughly the time the highlander was put in) that brought out the poptart epidemic - that and everyone on the forums spamming about PPC/Gauss/JJs.

Edited by TB Azrael, 20 May 2013 - 04:47 PM.

[Felicitatem Parco]

Jump Jets are not dedicated "Aerial Sniping" equipment platforms. They are designed to get you up and over obstacles such as on top of hills and buildings, and across ravines. Jump Jets were not designed for the purpose of launching a Mech up into the air and performing high-accuracy support fire. It is unfortunate that users have grown accustomed to thinking that Jump Jets were designed for the purpose of Jump Sniping and/or that Pop Tarting is their main function.

Jump Jets are meant to be maneuvering tools that grant you access to otherwise inaccessible paths of travel. Removing the high gunnery accuracy inherent with the games up-until-now current Jump Jet mechanic will not cripple the Heavy Metal, and it won't be a rip-off to paying customers, either. Removing an unintended feature, in my opinion, does not constitute a rip-off.

Edited by Prosperity Park, 20 May 2013 - 04:51 PM.

[LordBraxton]

Prosperity Park, on 20 May 2013 - 04:51 PM, said:

Jump Jets are not dedicated "Aerial Sniping" equipment platforms. They are designed to get you up and over obstacles such as on top of hills and buildings, and across ravines. Jump Jets were not designed for the purpose of launching a Mech up into the air and performing high-accuracy support fire. It is unfortunate that users have grown accustomed to thinking that Jump Jets were designed for the purpose of Jump Sniping and/or that Pop Tarting is their main function.

Jump Jets are meant to be maneuvering tools that grant you access to otherwise inaccessible paths of travel. Removing the high gunnery accuracy inherent with the games up-until-now current Jump Jet mechanic will not cripple the Heavy Metal, and it won't be a rip-off to paying customers, either. Removing an unintended feature, in my opinion, does not constitute a rip-off.

Translation. Jump jets on a highlander are for making you an easier target.

The problem was never jump jets the problem is PPCs

[Chavette]

LordBraxton, on 20 May 2013 - 04:53 PM, said:

Translation. Jump jets on a highlander are for making you an easier target.

The problem was never jump jets the problem is PPCs

Its funny they are nerfing everything, PPC cooldown, alpha strike, and jump shake... just seems like they are holding their heads and doing things by panic.

Vhetra, on 20 May 2013 - 04:33 PM, said:

That you said the HM is only for poptarting and sniping

Which I prove wrong on a daily basis with my HM

I never said it can't do passably with other weapons. Many things I do in game wouldn't be possible with your build. I prove myself right every day. Why do you think you playing another build should make a difference on my orientation of play style?

In other words, I'm happy for you doing your thing, but why are you trying to tell me how a mech was ment to be played?

Prosperity Park, on 20 May 2013 - 04:51 PM, said:

Removing the high gunnery accuracy inherent with the games up-until-now current Jump Jet mechanic will not cripple the Heavy Metal, and it won't be a rip-off to paying customers, either. Removing an unintended feature, in my opinion, does not constitute a rip-off.

I think its debatable at least to change an unique 5JJ mechs JJ aim, the same way it would be debatable to put an arm actuator on an urbanmech, sure there are alot of other builds for the urbie, but its kind of the point of the thing. Its not the best analogy as the urbanmech is a finished product while the game is in beta, but you get the point.

I'll be renaming the thread as many come here thinking I'm against the JJ nerf as a whole, I'm against the way it will be carried out(hurt the biggest JJ oriented hero mech the most, as compared to other variants it doesn't have much else going for it) and the way I got flipped flopped on with the RNG shake.

Edited by Chavette, 20 May 2013 - 05:20 PM.

[Damocles69]

GOOD!

[Lightfoot]

@ Prosperity Park,

I don't think they are being use as dedicated aerial platforms. I think new players are falling victim to players with jump jets because they don't know to just circle around through terrain to reach them. Jump jetting is not a very good defense at long or medium range, but is strong at close range. So as pilots approach they open themselves to what is really a devastating attack.

The proposed fix will address niether this nor basic poptarting. At close range, they won't miss and the poptart shot is made on the way down, unless you have a third person viewing advantage, which allows the shot to be made at any time.

[80Bit]

I am not on the "OMG nerf poptarts!" bandwagon by any means. But I am fine with this change.

[Scrawny Cowboy]

It was only a matter of time.

Frankly I am disappointed in all the assault heroes thus far. Though HM still has a couple nice things over the other Highlanders. Not enough to justify the cost for me but hey that's beside the supposed discussion ain't it? ; )

[Butane9000]

I must have really touched on the communities spirit with my first reply.

[SgtMaster]

actually,

i think they have it the other way around,
lighter mechs have less inertia and move in any direction a lot more than heavier mechs with more inertia...

my 2 cents

[SgtMaster]

Prosperity Park, on 20 May 2013 - 04:51 PM, said:

Jump Jets are not dedicated "Aerial Sniping" equipment platforms. They are designed to get you up and over obstacles such as on top of hills and buildings, and across ravines. Jump Jets were not designed for the purpose of launching a Mech up into the air and performing high-accuracy support fire. It is unfortunate that users have grown accustomed to thinking that Jump Jets were designed for the purpose of Jump Sniping and/or that Pop Tarting is their main function.

Jump Jets are meant to be maneuvering tools that grant you access to otherwise inaccessible paths of travel. Removing the high gunnery accuracy inherent with the games up-until-now current Jump Jet mechanic will not cripple the Heavy Metal, and it won't be a rip-off to paying customers, either. Removing an unintended feature, in my opinion, does not constitute a rip-off.

Ok, i completely disagree with this post...

Airplanes were designed to move people around... then someday someone put machine guns and bombs on them and voila... the rest is history...

[One Medic Army]

SgtMaster, on 20 May 2013 - 10:19 PM, said:

actually,

i think they have it the other way around,
lighter mechs have less inertia and move in any direction a lot more than heavier mechs with more inertia...

my 2 cents

Well, since this fix has nothing to do with realism, and more to do with preventing high-alpha poptart sniping, then light mechs aren't a problem. The problem lies in the heaviest mechs.

That said, could have sworn that what PGI said was it'd be chassis based, not weight based. Sounds more like they want to tune it based on which chassis most need to have their jumpsniping performance reduced.

[TOGSolid]

SgtMaster, on 20 May 2013 - 10:22 PM, said:

Ok, i completely disagree with this post...

Airplanes were designed to move people around... then someday someone put machine guns and bombs on them and voila... the rest is history...

Congratulations on making the most nonsensical and pointless post ever in a JJ discussion.

[Chavette]

Butane9000, on 20 May 2013 - 08:35 PM, said:

I must have really touched on the communities spirit with my first reply.

Seems like the spirit is to read the title, jump a wagon and miss the point of OP, even the TLDR out of laziness or ignorance... I wouldn't be so proud of that, but whatever fits you.

TOGSolid, on 20 May 2013 - 10:58 PM, said:

Congratulations on making the most nonsensical and pointless post ever in a JJ discussion.

Plenty of those to chose from here, I'm kinda proud of it too.

[SgtMaster]

Maybe they can change the ho nky tonk music to something like funeral music when it dies.
No more death from above...

yea, mechs shouldnt be shooting while using jumpjets???

Edited by SgtMaster, 21 May 2013 - 07:20 AM.

[LordBraxton]

An atlas with 4ppcs\1gauss is scarier than any poptart

a 6ppc stalker is scarier than any poptart

this will only become more evident

[Alex Wolfe]

SgtMaster, on 21 May 2013 - 07:14 AM, said:

yea, mechs shouldnt be shooting while using jumpjets???

Yes, mech shouldn't be shooting with pinpoint accuracy while using jumpjets.

[SgtMaster]

Alex Wolfe, on 21 May 2013 - 07:27 AM, said:

Yes, mech shouldn't be shooting with pinpoint accuracy while using jumpjets.

some people were complaining about LRM warrior online, then people complain of Gauss Warrior Online, then people complain about PPC warrior online, Now the complaining about Poptarts seems in fashion...

I think destroying mechs is inhuman... i think destroying mechwarriors is inhuman, Until mechs start shooting flower power from their canons, i wont be happy... Until its called LBX warrior Online, i wont be happy... Until i start making sense, i wont be happy...