26 replies to this topic

[PaintedWolf]

New customers do not care about minor details.

I know hardcore Lore players, and tech geeks LOVE details as their bread and butter, and love particularly to do nothing but focus on the tiniest, most insignificant detail detail all day, but let's face facts- bottom line is the customer does not care about Game Details, what they care about is a flashy, solid, awesome game where every Mech and Weapon and piece of equipment feels overpowered- like PGI said it wanted to begin with.

Think of this from the perspective of a potential gamer/customer:

-Every weapon in the Game is Nerfed vs Every weapon in the Game is OP

-You can work towards Double Heat Sinks or 1.4 Heat Sinks

-AC-20s get "extra-weapon health"- what does that even mean?

-You can end up getting artillery and airstrike, but they aren't overpowered so don't worry

-The smallest weapons (MGs and Flamers) will see a slight buff, to things like 0.8 damage instead of 0.4

-Over-focus on FTP vs PTW. PGI needs to realize by now people complaining about MWO being P2W are Trolling. Again, by focusing on these people they are holding themselves back and wasting time.

These are Details and Details DO NOT SELL GAMES. Period.

Nobody gives a crap about MGs doing a slightly higher amount of fraction damage. Some TT fans might care, but they are not likely to be the target audience of new customers.

What new customers want is flashy content and weapons. In short PGI is wasting its time addressing every single, little tiny insignificant detail. This is the problem with super-detailed based reasoning you waste time and lose the big picture. The Release is coming up to us, and instead of adding as many Mechs as they can, adding as much equipment as possible, etc, PGI is nerfing Missiles-Unnerfing Missiles- Getting ready to Nerf PPCs (which will demand an unnerf)- nerfed DHS (which will probably have to be unnerfed again when Clans come out)- adding health to AC-20s (wtf? they were more fragile in TT, not less- anyways- Waste of Time)- buffing MGs and Flamers (Waste of Time) .

Again, think of it from the perspective of a new customer or general gamer. Would you care if AC-20 health was 10 or 20 so that it could take more critical hits after armor was penatrated? Would you care about the weakest weapons in the game being buffed, or would you focus on the more powerful weapons in the game?

Would it appeal to you more, as a potential customer to hear that weapons in the game are Overpowered or that weapons in the game are nerfed?

Again, my concern is that with all this focus on the little things PGI is wasting its time.

That is why they say in the military that Sergeants make horrible generals. The job of a Sergeant is to focus on every trivial little detail no matter what- a spot on the shirt, a wrinkle in the bedding, mud on the boots, etc.

This sounds great, but when it comes to a Real Time Strategic engagement all they do is end up getting outmaneuvered and wasting time on trivialities while the enemy makes real gains. 'Guys, I want a report, exhaustive, on the exact boot sizes of each soldier. It has come to my attention that we do not know this DETAIL. I want to know this DETAIL.. Get logistics on this right away. "

"I want to know how many times a day every soldier brushes his or her teeth!"

"I want to know their favorite colors, the names of their dogs, their exact weights and heights! Details man, we need Details!"

The inability to distinguish between meaningless, time-sink details like the above, and Essentials is what separates a competent General Leader from a mere Sergeant/Technical Officer.

As was said in one of the Battletech Novels, people who focus too much on trivial details or formalities show that they have nothing better to do.

PGI is a Private Company, so they can do whatever the heck they want. But Mark my Words, come the Release, the customers are going to look for an Awesome Game. They will not give a hoot about "the details" no matter how many times you repeat how important these details are. Just like in a real battle (which free market competition is often compared to) the enemy will not care about how many details your side has memorized. What it will come down to is essentials- How Good is the Sound/Graphics? How Many Mechs are Available (note the number of Mechs will matter more then Variants)? What are the Coolest Weapons? How Many Techs/New Potentials are there? What about Role-Warfare: That Sounds Cool. Destructible Environments. Flashy Airstrikes and Artillery pieces.

Focus will be on: Biggest Weapons, Flashiest Weapons, Assault Mechs (new customers will want to look at the Heavies and Assaults which pack LOTs of Awesome Weapons, they will not give a foot about the Trebuchet or Flea no matter how much BS you try and tell them about how you think these should be better Mechs).

So like I said, PGI will probably not listen to me, but then again, if they don't act realistic or sensible and instead cater to people who obsess over the smallest, most boring technical details- new customers probably won't listen to them.

To take a quote from possibly the best rated/selling/most anticipated game this year: "The details elude me now. But the details wouldn't change a ******* thing.”

In the end, if people do not find your game exciting, the details will not alter their perceptions one whit.

[Keifomofutu]

0/10 Would not read again.

[PaintedWolf]

Keifomofutu, on 19 May 2013 - 08:02 AM, said:

0/10 Would not read again.

You have 2k posts. 2k posts for a Beta Game. How many of those posts do you think anyone outside of the Hard Core Forum Community cares about?

I ask this because I want to know if that is PGIs logic, are they really following the advise of a person like this?

Edited by PaintedWolf, 19 May 2013 - 08:20 AM.

[Hotthedd]

Customer retention is even more important in business than new customers, f.y.i.

I'm not saying they should not try to do both, but the priorities need to be on keeping the customers you already have happy enough to continue being your customers.

[PaintedWolf]

Hotthedd, on 19 May 2013 - 08:16 AM, said:

Customer retention is even more important in business than new customers, f.y.i.

I'm not saying they should not try to do both, but the priorities need to be on keeping the customers you already have happy enough to continue being your customers.

So what retains customers? Do you really think most people who try MWO stay because of the fractions of Machine Guns, or
the details of LRM flight times or SRM patterns?

Most people start with a Trial Mech. They decide whether the game is cool or not cool based on their first handful of games. No matter how finely detailed or balanced the game is, if they did not find it fun, exciting, or intriguing in their first couple of hours they are done. Period.

They will focus on:

-Coolest Weapons

-Coolest Mechs

-Things like the pop-ups that say "XP Rewarded due to Component destruction." This last PGI got right. People like Getting Points and Feeling Rewarded. In fact there is a TED Talk on just how addictive any Point-based system can be:

http://www.g4tv.com/...x-presentation/

Remember "Killer Instinct" when you would do a series of moves and it would shout "Combo!" "Ultra Combo!" "Super-Combo!" etc. That is akin to component destruction- more of that would be very welcome.

[Deathlike]

TB;DR (Too Boring; Didn't Read)

None of the points interest a newbie.. if/only when you are serious interested in the game is where people try to get involved more.

Right now, you are treating it as if all newbies that play this game are somehow TT experts or instant-MWO experts trying to figure this game out... that's simply not the case. I know the "devil is in the details", but you are pointing out stuff that is completely irrelevant to a new customer. What a new customer cares is the following:

1) Is this game reasonably easy to play (for newbies)?
2) Is this game fun to play (for newbies)?
3) Does this game have something to aim for (like CW, communities, leagues/competition)?

The sad fact is, only #1 and #3 has a resounding "NO" and although #2 can always be an up and down proposition, the reality is that the community position for the most part reflects what is going on at the moment (outside of really dumb threads/posts). It is an indicator, but not something you would say is the most accurate representation of the game as a whole.

So, please stop making posts that don't really aim at what all online gaming services are... it's a freaking business, and must be treated as such.

Edited by Deathlike, 19 May 2013 - 08:30 AM.

[General Taskeen]

They were 0.04 Damage, and they will be 0.08 Damage. If they were .8 or .4 you'd actually see people using them and probably killing Mechs with them.

[PaintedWolf]

General Taskeen, on 19 May 2013 - 08:43 AM, said:

They were 0.04 Damage, and they will be 0.08 Damage. If they were .8 or .4 you'd actually see people using them and probably killing Mechs with them.

Who cares? "Umm okay guys now my Machine Guns in MWO does 0.6 damage instead of 0.4 damage and guess what? For a second people actually thought they might do 0.8 damage! Can you believe that?!"

Wow, I was on the edge of my seat for that.

That will not be something people care about. What they will care about is: "You shoot a Mech and something flashes on screen with an Announcement like Unreal Tournament "Super-Damage! XX XP-C-Bills!"

Adding in a chance for Through Armor Criticals- again with an announcement and XP-C-Bill bonus.

Adding the same thing when a powerful weapon hits and penatrates armor. People love that stuff. They love feeling rewarded for what they do, and if you offer them points for this they will keep coming back.

Attention for PGI on how to retain customers: Give them bonuses/points for what they do in-game. There are studies on this- people love getting points, especially when they come with special sounds and graphics. http://www.g4tv.com/...x-presentation/

"Carnegie Mellon University Professor, Jesse Schell, dives into a world of game development which will emerge from the popular "Facebook Games" era."

As the speaker did, if people were presented with special graphics/sounds and given "Company Points" every time they brushed with a specific brand of tooth paste, people would pick that brand.

People also like to gamble, and get points for winning a gamble- hence the use of Through Armor Criticals. Give them TACs and points, and whenever they do X damage and points (like in battletech when you do enough damage, you physically knock down your target). THAT is what people WANT.

Essentials will be:

-Coolest Mechs

-Coolest Weapons

-Awesome Rewards. How Awesome, How Much.

People do not want to have to Work when they play. They do not want to Play a Second Job. Making the Game Detail-Oriented, and Super-Duper Table Top Hardcore makes the game a Second Job for most players.

Would you play a game that felt like it was Work?

[PaintedWolf]

------Currently PGI is trying to "Retain Customers" by making the game Very, Very Technical-------

Instead, they should be retaining customers with Rewards i.e. Flashy Rewards and Points. That is what studies show.

[trollocaustic]

nobody agrees.
Get out of these forums.
AND NEVER COME BACK!
BEGONE!

[PaintedWolf]

trollocaustic, on 19 May 2013 - 09:08 AM, said:

nobody agrees.
Get out of these forums.
AND NEVER COME BACK!
BEGONE!

Okay, what do you think sells more games- Better Graphics or Technical Details?

Which gets a girl more dates- Better Personality or Hot Looks?

Edited by PaintedWolf, 19 May 2013 - 09:19 AM.

[trollocaustic]

technical details.
There's a reason minecraft and dwarf fortress are popular.

[PaintedWolf]

trollocaustic, on 19 May 2013 - 09:33 AM, said:

technical details.
There's a reason minecraft and dwarf fortress are popular.

What are you talking about? The Details? You break blocks and put blocks together and that's it. Minecraft excels not because it is detailed but because it is simple. There are a total of 12 tools in the entire game!

People like Minecraft because it is easy.

[Deathlike]

PaintedWolf, on 19 May 2013 - 09:18 AM, said:

Okay, what do you think sells more games- Better Graphics or Technical Details?

Good gameplay above all else.

Quote

Which gets a girl more dates- Better Personality or Hot Looks?

I thought we were talking about giant warmachines, not imaginary girlfriends.

I would hope in 3050, marriage would be allowed between a man and his mech. At least then while under the stars, you would understand why one would yell "Jennaaahhh" into the darkness.

[PaintedWolf]

Deathlike, on 19 May 2013 - 09:47 AM, said:

Good gameplay above all else.

Answer the question- do most people notice graphics or technical details?

Deathlike, on 19 May 2013 - 09:47 AM, said:

I thought we were talking about giant warmachines, not imaginary girlfriends.

I would hope in 3050, marriage would be allowed between a man and his mech. At least then while under the stars, you would understand why one would yell "Jennaaahhh" into the darkness.

Most guys notice how good looking a woman is. That is part of our nature. If you are going to deny this basic point, then I don't see what good your marketing advise is at all.

You sound like the person who argues that people "Like Healthy Foods". Yes- that's why McDonald's and Burger King and Jack in the Box are the top food chains in the world- because they sell healthy, balanced, organic foods. You, my friend, are a marketing genius, and if PGI takes even a tenth of your advise to heart MWO will be the best selling game of all time!

[Warge]

PaintedWolf, on 19 May 2013 - 08:25 AM, said:

Remember "Killer Instinct" when you would do a series of moves and it would shout "Combo!" "Ultra Combo!" "Super-Combo!" etc. That is akin to component destruction- more of that would be very welcome.

If u r looking for kill-combos, u get into wrong game.

[Warge]

PaintedWolf, on 19 May 2013 - 09:18 AM, said:

Which gets a girl more dates- Better Personality or Hot Looks?

I always prefered girls with better personality. Hot looking girls almost always are such *******!

[PaintedWolf]

Warge, on 19 May 2013 - 09:54 AM, said:

If u r looking for kill-combos, u get into wrong game.

They already have it, when you destroy a component, defense kills, savior kills, assists, spotting. That needs to be more of a focus, I have a lot of fun with that and people do in general. A sound effect with it would be icing on the cake.

As for your sig:

Quote

The key to skepticism is to continuously and vigorously apply the methods of science to navigate the treacherous straits between “know nothing” skepticism and “anything goes” credulity. Over three centuries ago the French philosopher and skeptic, René Descartes, after one of the most thorough skeptical purges in intellectual history, concluded that he knew one thing for certain: Cogito ergo sum — I think therefore I am. But evolution may have designed us in the other direction. Humans evolved to be pattern-seeking, cause-inferring animals, shaped by nature to find meaningful relationships in the world. Those who were best at doing this left behind the most offspring. We are their descendents. In other words, to be human is to think:[indent]
Sum Ergo Cogito —
I Am Therefore I Think.

http://www.skeptic.com/about_us/[/indent]

Warge, on 19 May 2013 - 09:59 AM, said:

I always prefered girls with better personality. Hot looking girls almost always are such *******!

You ever look at the magazine rack? Even girls prefer to buy magazines with hot girls on the cover.

[Warge]

PaintedWolf, on 19 May 2013 - 09:52 AM, said:

that's why McDonald's and Burger King and Jack in the Box are the top food chains in the world- because they sell healthy, balanced, organic foods.

You made my day!

[Deathlike]

PaintedWolf, on 19 May 2013 - 09:52 AM, said:

Answer the question- do most people notice graphics or technical details?

Graphics... BUT, when people look deeper into the details of a game (not necessarily technical), there can be major discrepancies in the overall game that even good graphics cannot compensate for. There have been many different games, like say Diablo 3, which for some people has a weak if not P2W type of metagame for online. Other games that have gone through the pipeline can have forgettable Single Player experiences.. having the most focus of their online component. Even graphics cannot fix a broken game... and there are a number of games that have fallen into that category.. so to say that there is one component above all else is wrong. Good gameplay will always be the most important thing for a game's success.

Quote

Most guys notice how good looking a woman is. That is part of our nature. If you are going to deny this basic point, then I don't see what good your marketing advise is at all.

I believe in beauty like the next person. However, if you are a terrible person, you could still be Maxim's top 100 women, and be a horrible person to deal with ever. There's more to a significant other than just looks. Otherwise, we wouldn't be having an insane divorce rate (and I'd rather not even go into the details of that). Marketing is a function of being able to "catch a customer" like "finding a woman"... but also retaining the customer like "dating the woman long term". It doesn't happen quickly, but to put it in context that you are using is not optimal (even though it's not hard to find good metaphoric comparisons). If you are a good salesman (aka the dating scene), you have to show you have depths (and I don't mean your Wang) outside of just looks and like keeping the other person interested in you, you have to continue to give good reason/incentive to do so. With this game, there isn't much of one at the moment, so it becomes obvious to most that PGI could do a better job and as such continue to work on themselves (like a bad alcohol addiction) by continuing to improve things that make the game better for all.

Quote

You sound like the person who argues that people "Like Healthy Foods". Yes- that's why McDonald's and Burger King and Jack in the Box are the top food chains in the world- because they sell healthy, balanced, organic foods. You, my friend, are a marketing genius, and if PGI takes even a tenth of your advise to heart MWO will be the best selling game of all time!

Feel free to make random points of inconsequence. I'm sure you'll need a poll to go with it.

Edited by Deathlike, 19 May 2013 - 10:14 AM.