21 replies to this topic

[trollocaustic]

Well, This is a quick mathing up of the DHS system.
a SHS or Single heat sink lowers your heat by 1/sec, a DHS or Double heat sink lowers it by 1.4/sec.

The first 10 double heat sinks however, lower it by 2.0 per second.

All mechs have 10 or more heat sinks.

Engines come with E/25 sinks. for example a STD/XL (Doesn't really matter) 100 would have 4 heat sinks, while a STD/XL 225 would have 9 and a STD 300 has 12. It rounds down, so a STD 295 would have 11, a STD 110 would have 4 and a STD 255 would have 10.

Double heat sinks take triple the amount of critical slots compared to a single heat sink but weight the same. This means double heat sinks are a way to lower tonnage while increasing crital slot usage, same as Endo-Steel Structure and Ferro-Fiberous Armor.

The calculation of single heat sinks is N(Number of heat sinks) and H (Heat dissipated per second).

H=N

That simple, on the other hand, Double heat sinks are far more complicated

H=20+1.4(N-10)

Just go ahead and plug it into your calculator.

yes, piloting giant stompy robots includes math.

[Derpinator]

I think only the heatsinks inside the engine have the 2.0 dissipation.
std 100 engine would have 4 of those, and 6 "normal" double heatsinks
correct me if I'm wrong but if I'm not then the DHS formula would look a bit like:
H = En.Heatsinks x 2 + 1.4N
En. Heatsinks are the heatsinks inside the engine and The N stands for number of heatsinks Not inside the engine so the ones taking critical slots.

Edit: More Info added

Edited by Derpinator, 17 May 2013 - 01:37 PM.

[ArcDemon]

It is not the first 10 heat sinks that work at 2.0, it is the engine heat sinks that are work at 2.0. If you use an engine smaller then a STD or XL 250 then only the heat sinks in the engine will count as 2.0, the rest are 1.4.

Your heat dissipation is also wrong, the rate is 1/10 per second per heat sink. So 10 single heat sinks dissipate only one heat per second. An engine double heat sink dissipates 2/10 (1/5) per second and a regular double heat sink (including extra heat sinks equipped in a large engine) does 1.4/10 per second. This does not include the cool run efficiency.

So for example a PPC generates 8 heat when it is fired, and takes 3 seconds to recharge. If you have 10 single heat sinks (the minimum) then by the time the PPC is ready to fire again you will have dissipated 3 of the 8 heat generated (leaving 5).

The total amount of heat you can build up before shutting down (100%) is also determined by the number of heat sinks. You start with a capacity of 30. For every single heat sink you get +1, for every double in the engine you get +2 and for the other doubles you get +1.4. This does not include the heat containment efficiency.

So if you had the basic 10 single heat sinks your mech could handle 40 heat before it shut down. If we are firing our PPC as fast as possible then we will build up 5 heat for every shot, or 8 shots before we reach the maximum.

Edited by ArcDemon, 17 May 2013 - 01:45 PM.

[Mazzyplz]

[LegoPirate]

im pretty sure heatsinks dissipate heat at .1 and .14 heat per second, respectively. engine dhs do .20 per second.

if doubles did 1.4/2 per second, a 4 ppc stalker with 20 dhs would dissipate 34 heat per second.

Edited by LegoPirate, 17 May 2013 - 02:21 PM.

[trollocaustic]

Eh, I'm horribad at research.

[Derpinator]

I have almost no knowledge on this matter but I can proces the information given in a formula,
so according to ArcDemon, Heat dissipation of single heatsinks is 1/10, Engine DHS 2/10 and DHS 1.4/10
Basic Heat cap = 30, increases by 1 per shs, 1.4 per dhs and 2 per Engine dhs.

Formula:
Heat Dissipation = EN.DHSx0.2 + Nx0.14
Heat Cap = 30 + EN.DHSx2 + Nx1.4
Pilot skills not included.

Btw anyone knows how much environment affects the heat cap and dissipation?

[MustrumRidcully]

trollocaustic, on 17 May 2013 - 03:11 PM, said:

Eh, I'm horribad at research.

Just correct the OP and you will help others when they research the topic!

[Konril]

I do know what has been officially said in the Breakdown post. However, there is still a bit of a difference between what the Staff Moderator has said and how it actually seems to work.

With n being number of heat sinks standard heat sinks seem to use this computation for heat:

n*0.1 h/s

With double heat sinks, to the best of my ability to test in game it looks like this:

(n*0.14 + 0.6) h/s

If 10 heat sinks are required for the mech to operate, those 10 are doubled, and extras after that simply get the 0.14 rate, then the whole (10 * 0.2) + (n-10)*1.4 formula simplifies to the above. So it does appear to be the case that the first 10 are technically doubled and the extras get the reduced rate.

But there are a couple of observations that I really should mention.

Light and medium mechs that have engines less than a 250 rating need to mount at least one of the required heat sinks somewhere in the mech's body. However, they do not get a heat penalty for doing so. Similarly, Mechs with at least a 275 rating can have more than the 10 required in the engine. However, these extra heat sinks in the engine don't work better than ones mounted in the body.

[Krazy Kat]

HEATSINKS SINGLE VS DOUBLE

EXTERNAL

Single : 0.1 heat dissipation per heatsink per second. Heatbase -1.0 per heatsink.
Double : 0.14 heat dissipation per heatsink per second. Heatbase -1.4 per heatsink.


INTERNAL - each engine has a set amount of internal heatsinks depending on its strength.

Single : 0.1 heat dissipation per heatsink per second.
Double : 0.2 heat dissipation per heatsink per second.

[Blacke]

Map temperature also effects how much ambient heat is being generated per second.

[IamSalvation]

All you need to know about this:

DHS are allways better.
There is not a single mech that is better off with SHS.

There are some Mechs that can be run with SHS but DHS will still improve them.

DHS are a total nobrain Upgrade as long as you dont run a really, really small engine. (and you should not do this.. can´t think of a single mech that would be good with a very small engine...)

[ICEFANG13]

Only an Atlas can benefit from SHS, the mech with the most tons to slots, and only if it uses a minimum engine and a lighter weapons loadout. When you upgrade that SHS Atlas with a slightly small weapons loadout, with Endo+DHS+larger engine, you will notice a small small increase in heat (less heat dissipation to be 100% correct), but it will also double the speed usually.

Remember when I think it was Bryan said his K2 with 17 SHS is good enough? Wrong, its 100% better with DHS, it would save 7 tons, and could be equal to 20 SHS with a 250+ engine (and Catapults are very XL friendly mechs.)

Point is, this thread is currently uneeded, everyone, here is what you need to know about Double Heat Sinks.

Put them on your mech.

Edited by ICEFANG13, 18 May 2013 - 07:15 PM.

[Derpinator]

That's not the point, we all know that DHS are better in every perspective though I dont think it should be like this.
SHS should be a viable option too imo
Knowing how certain mechanics work is also pretty important, I think the OP also knows this and just wanted to understand it.

[trollocaustic]

I put it here so that new people (Like i was 2 weeks ago) could figure out WTF ARE DOUBLE HEAT SINKS

[Konril]

Movement and ambient temperatures do have an effect on heat, but it's not usually a big difference.

Walking, which is defined as up to 66% throttle generates the heat of a single heat sink. That is 0.1 h/s. Running, which is 100% throttle is 0.2 h/s, same as two heat sinks. Ambient temperatures add or remove constant heat at nearly the same rate. 0.1 h/s for Tourmaline Desert or Alpine peaks. About 0.2 h/s from Caustic Valley.

Movement heat is stated in the Breakdown post. Ambient temperatures of certain maps I don't have official PGI verification for. They might be in the old patch notes, but I don't want to search for them right now.

But a few more bits of trivia about the single and double heat sink system.

Mechs need a minimum of 10 heat sinks to run, and with an engine rating of 250, all 10 of those required heat sinks fit in the engine.

That means at a minimum level, with no additional heat sinks, a standard mech will cool itself 1.0 heat per second. The same mech with a double heat-sink upgrade will cool itself 2.0 heat per second.

At the opposite extreme, with a standard 250 engine, there is room for 4 heat sinks each side torso, and 2 each arm (+1 if a hand is missing) so in most cases, it is possible to boost that cooling rate to 3.68 heat per second at the cost of space. This would leave only 2 spaces each arm, center torso, and legs, plus 1 in the head for weapons and other equipment. It would also only weigh 12 tons. XL engines and bulky equipment would mean less space to put heat sinks in, but a 300 XL should be able to mount 2 of those heat sinks in the engine, and therefore get the same heat performance.

With standard heat sinks, assuming both hands are present and a standard engine is used, there is literally room to mount 47 single heat sinks on a mech, giving a technical limit of 5.7 h/s cooling assuming a 250 standard engine is used. The catch here is not only would the whole system weigh 47 tons, but would literally take up all the available space in the mech. You wouldn't be able to mount anything else without removing heat sinks.

But there you have the big catch. For most mechs, double heat sinks allows you be performing at least 10 tons heaver without actually being 10 tons heavier. The cost, beyond the 1,500,000 C-bill tag is a lower possible max cooling rate and potentially a lot of space. However, except for some very rare cases, the extra potential cooling is not worth the extra weight of a standard heat-sink solution.

[Just wanna play]

LegoPirate, on 17 May 2013 - 02:20 PM, said:

if doubles did 1.4/2 per second, a 4 ppc stalker with 20 dhs would dissipate 34 heat per second.

if the engine is 250 or bigger, they do

[Just wanna play]

Konril, on 19 May 2013 - 01:16 PM, said:

With standard heat sinks, assuming both hands are present and a standard engine is used, there is literally room to mount 47 single heat sinks on a mech, giving a technical limit of 5.7 h/s cooling assuming a 250 standard engine is used. The catch here is not only would the whole system weigh 47 tons, but would literally take up all the available space in the mech. You wouldn't be able to mount anything else without removing heat sinks.

pretty sure the overall max amount of hs you can have in a WORKING mech is 61
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...c7e217db05a974d
remove 1 hs to put in a medium laser and you get 600% heat efficiency!


ps that makes a very good starting point if you want a really cool running mech, just remove heat sinks to make space for weaponry and lower engine size for more tonnage

for ex
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...c5ddd2b19c0a20d

also want to point at that having heat sinks in the legs gives a cooling bonus when standing in water (turns hs in legs into double hs)

Edited by Just wanna play, 19 May 2013 - 01:30 PM.

[Sephlock]

Mazzyplz, on 17 May 2013 - 02:03 PM, said:

Damn, I look away from the forum for a few minutes and someone beats me to it .

[Just wanna play]

imo opinion general rule of the thumb, if you are using less then 36-37 standard heat sinks, your probably better off with doubles

lol its ok sephlock maybe next time