7 replies to this topic

[Diablobo]

I truly sympathize with the devs and their truly difficult task. Not only are they bringing us a great game with what has to be very limited resources, they are having to deal with an angry group of players who constantly attack and complain about things THEY HAVEN'T EVEN DONE YET. Just look at the number of posts in the forums discussing things that haven't even happened yet. Yes, I get the whole enthusiasm being good for the game thing, but the ingratitude and hostility directed at the devs is completely out of line and it needs to stop.

I know I wouldn't want to be them, but I think I have a suggestion. Sure, we want feedback, but it seems like it would be better just to tell us as little as possible. Every single word that is said officially turns into an unofficial mess. The less they tell us, the less we have to complain about. Of course, this will lead to massive levels of grief about the lack of feedback, but it sure beats the constant harassment about things that they haven't even done yet.

I really like the game, faults and all, and I don't need to have Paul or Garth hold my hand and walk me through their thought processes. They are watching the forums, and they are analyzing the data, so quit complaining so much about them not responding to your asinine whining. Let them do their work. The forums should be dominated by congratulations and gratitude, not grief and negative speculation.

Edited by Niko Snow, 29 October 2013 - 11:03 AM.

[Elandyll]

<shakes head>
I will have to say that this kind of attitude is where the problem lies (at least in part). Blind trust, because PGI "can do no wrong".

But it is mostly your opinion, and I respect that as misplaced as I think it is, it is yours to have.

Now, there is this little thing you say "...very limited resources...".

Are you kidding me?
First, PGI received financing from their publisher, IGP for this iteration of the game, -and- they raised more than $5M through their Founder's program.
http://www.newswire....under-s-program

Oh, less we forget, there is also this little thing: This ongoing Beta (lol) is MONETIZED, aka stuff is for sale just like for a full scale release, from the fluff stuff at $5 a piece, to Premium time and going via MEchs that can be worth up to (and not limited to) $25 a piece. Some people have admitted having dumped already north of $600 in a game that hasn't even officially released yet (admitedly, "release" is a vague term for an online F2P game).

This game has had anything -but- very limited resources. I would argue that the resulting game though is not anyhere close to match the resources so far (but I hope we'll see the result of all that funding in the CW update. Sometime).
So far: 16 (soon 17) mechs, 6 Maps with slight variations for some (night / snow), 2 game modes (1 being a variant of the other really). No VOIP, no Lobby, no Ladders, etc. etc.

Liking the game and its developper is one thing. Being (and willingly in your case) blind to their glaring faults is another.

Edited by Elandyll, 20 May 2013 - 12:36 PM.

[Sparks Murphey]

Elandyll, on 20 May 2013 - 12:34 PM, said:

<shakes head>
I will have to say that this kind of attitude is where the problem lies (at least in part). Blind trust, because PGI "can do no wrong".

But it is mostly your opinion, and I respect that as misplaced as I think it is, it is yours to have.

Now, there is this little thing you say "...very limited resources...".

Are you kidding me?
First, PGI received financing from their publisher, IGP for this iteration of the game, -and- they raised more than $5M through their Founder's program.
http://www.newswire....under-s-program

Oh, less we forget, there is also this little thing: This ongoing Beta (lol) is MONETIZED, aka stuff is for sale just like for a full scale release, from the fluff stuff at $5 a piece, to Premium time and going via MEchs that can be worth up to (and not limited to) $25 a piece. Some people have admitted having dumped already north of $600 in a game that hasn't even officially released yet (admitedly, "release" is a vague term for an online F2P game).

This game has had anything -but- very limited resources. I would argue that the resulting game though is not anyhere close to match the resources so far (but I hope we'll see the result of all that funding in the CW update. Sometime).
So far: 16 (soon 17) mechs, 6 Maps with slight variations for some (night / snow), 2 game modes (1 being a variant of the other really). No VOIP, no Lobby, no Ladders, etc. etc.

Liking the game and its developper is one thing. Being (and willingly in your case) blind to their glaring faults is another.

Wow. 5 MILLION dollars? That does seem like a lot. I'd like to have 5 million dollars. I could make my own 'Mech game.

Let's see...well, first, we'll get rid of Brian and Russ and Paul and the rest of the team, because they have "industry experience" (like that's really worth anything) and instead, I'll hire the 30 people in my Professional Game Development class. We pumped out a pretty awesome game in final year, so we should be able to do it again. Forget those minute long scrolls of credits we see in AAA games these days, that's just bloat.

Hmm, wages? They do have the privilege of working on MechWarrior. I mean, this isn't some tiny game no one's ever going to play, it's freakin' MechWarrior! They should feel honoured to have been in the same building! So let's pay them a pitiful $42,000 a year. Hey, it's entry level for 3D artists.

Now, I'm going to need computers...lot's of computers. Hang on, how much of my $5 million do I have left? Let's see, $42,000 times 30, for two years worth of development so far...wait, that's over $2.5 million dollars?!? I'm over halfway spent already? I haven't even bought computers yet! Or building space, or marketing, or legal representation. What? Crytek expect me to PAY for CryEngine? Oh geez...and apparently, I can't just call my game "MechWarrior" because some fools called Microsoft think they own the name.

At least I've got a game, though, right? Oh. No, my team managed to get as far as making a 'Mech I mean, Robo (sorry, Microsoft) do a terrible walk cycle before packing it in and going to work on the backend of Call of Battle's new website with ActiArts, because it pays better and gets them in the building with real developers.

Okay, maybe 5 million isn't that much after all.

[Mazzyplz]

lets see.. how much does it cost to make a total conversion of crysis... Mechwarrior living legends did it for... 0 bucks?
ok. animations included and all. - i mean it's not like they have to program an engine or anything. modding an existing engine is not that hard.

how much do indie developers spend for a whole game. less than half a million? hmmm.

how much did they win from selling mechs so far, like 7 million (i'm making a guess)? ok, so that's like 12 million

how much did it take to make the movie aliens by james cameron, beginning to end in england (higher price) included hiring sigourney weaver and the terminator effects genius stan winston? 18 million bucks.

yea i think they can manage

Edited by Mazzyplz, 20 May 2013 - 03:37 PM.

[Spokes]

Don't forget, when you license an existing IP, you've already spent a good deal of money before you ever start development. $5 million can evaporate very quickly.

[Sparks Murphey]

Mazzyplz, on 20 May 2013 - 03:36 PM, said:

lets see.. how much does it cost to make a total conversion of crysis... Mechwarrior living legends did it for... 0 bucks?
ok. animations included and all. - i mean it's not like they have to program an engine or anything. modding an existing engine is not that hard.

how much do indie developers spend for a whole game. less than half a million? hmmm.

how much did they win from selling mechs so far, like 7 million (i'm making a guess)? ok, so that's like 12 million

how much did it take to make the movie aliens by james cameron, beginning to end in england (higher price) included hiring sigourney weaver and the terminator effects genius stan winston? 18 million bucks.

yea i think they can manage

MWLL's developers also didn't draw a wage from their development of the game. Given that they've been working on the game since at least 2009, they're probably owed a few million in wages by now. Though they've received support from both Microsoft and Crytek, they don't own a commercial licence to my knowledge. Any costs relating to building rent and maintenance, electricity, telecommunications, hardware, transportation, advertising, tax, business registration, legal fees, or any of the other dozens of costs of running a business would have been sunk into their daily costs of living. Making a mod for a game as a labour of love is a completely different proposition to making a game for commercial profit.

As to films, yeah, Aliens cost $18.5 million to make. In 1986. Heck, the original, Alien, was made in 1979 and only cost $11 million. Those are costs from around three decades ago. How about the modern installment of the Alien series, Prometheus, which came out last year and cost $120 million? Perhaps that's a more fitting comparison than a movie from an era where Frogger was groundbreaking computer gameplay.

All of which is still obfuscating the OP's original point, which wasn't that people are justly or unjustly criticising PGI's past actions, but that it's ridiculous to whine about stuff that hasn't even happened yet. PGI announce that, for example, we're going to have community warfare, and that the Clans are going to be in it, and we get a dozen threads spring up about how the Clans are going to be soooooo overpowered in community warfare and OMG why haven't PGI done something about it? Because it's not happened yet, is the answer.

[Adridos]

Mazzyplz, on 20 May 2013 - 03:36 PM, said:

lets see.. how much does it cost to make a total conversion of crysis... Mechwarrior living legends did it for... 0 bucks?
ok. animations included and all. - i mean it's not like they have to program an engine or anything. modding an existing engine is not that hard.

It's not like the game wasn't 7 years in making... 2009 was the first release date, but they were working on the game from before the Crysis release in 2007.

People complain MW:O is developed too slowly, imagine if someone gave them access to MW:LL in it's early years.

[Dexter Herbivore]

Everytime I see someone with the PGI faction tag I thank them for their work, simply because all I see on the forums is negativity. I've loved MW since TT days and love the fact that I can beta test and support a game that has already given me lots of joy and will hopefully continue to do so.