44 replies to this topic

[Svalfangr]

I've been using this gun as the main weapon on my CN-9 A since i first bought it a few weeks ago.


It has since become my favorite weapon by far, however it does not have the required damage to make it completely viable.

That is why i propose that its damage per pellet be increased to 1.2-1.25. I feel that this would make it better in close range, where you can hit most all of your pellets, and still do lackluster damage at a range.

[Roland]

Yes, increasing the damage per pellet on the LBX is what needs to happen to make it worthwhile.

[LockeJaw]

You realize that would make it an LB 12X or LB 12.5X right? 10 single damage pellets. 10 total damage. Hence the 10 in its name.

Tomorrow the cone is getting decreased 20% to make it more effective at medium range. Give them some time to keep tuning it.

[Sybreed]

LockeJaw, on 20 May 2013 - 05:00 PM, said:

You realize that would make it an LB 12X or LB 12.5X right? 10 single damage pellets. 10 total damage. Hence the 10 in its name.

Tomorrow the cone is getting decreased 20% to make it more effective at medium range. Give them some time to keep tuning it.

like many recommended before, make the number appelation the amount of pellets shot.

Each pellet does 1.5 dmg, LB-X 10 fires 10, LB-X 20 fires 20, etc.

Nothing wrong with what he asked

Edited by Sybreed, 20 May 2013 - 05:09 PM.

[Roland]

LockeJaw, on 20 May 2013 - 05:00 PM, said:

You realize that would make it an LB 12X or LB 12.5X right?

No, it really wouldn't.

Quote

10 single damage pellets. 10 total damage. Hence the 10 in its name.

It's just a name of the weapon. It happens to correspond to the damage of the weapon, but that's not something which is set in stone.

In prior mechwarrior titles, like MW4, for instance, the LBX10 actually did 14 damage, and the LBX20 did 24 damage.

LockeJaw, on 20 May 2013 - 05:00 PM, said:

Tomorrow the cone is getting decreased 20% to make it more effective at medium range. Give them some time to keep tuning it.

You are mistaken in your belief that simply reducing the spread is going to make the weapon more useful.

Even if you tuned it to have ZERO spread, then it'd only be marginally better than the standard AC10, which is already a pretty much trash tier weapon.

See, the spread is actually good. Making it a shotgun, as opposed to a single shell, is actually cool. It adds flavor to the weapon.

However, the problem is that it currently doesn't do enough damage. Rather than trying to narrow the cone such that it can put more damage onto a single panel, just increase the damage like in prior Mechwarrior titles. Then, it'll have the flavor of a shotgun, but still actually be a functional weapon.

[Vassago Rain]

We'll never have damage increases, because golden fantasies that 2, 5, 10, and 20 should always correspond with the damage.

[General Taskeen]

... Sigh, why do people insist on saying "well 1.2 damage makes it LB-12X." Please stop, seriously. Every Mech game has deviated slightly or a lot from TT damage values for balance purposes. Also, every Mech game has increased LB-X pellet damage AND actually made the enhanced range its intended advantage.

If this game wants to move anywhere with weapon balance and variety, always catering to an exact damage value is not the answer and will most certainly leave certain weapons in the dirt and not competitive.

Case in point, LRMs were 1.8, so I guess that means an LRM10 was really just an LRM18. Derp.

Conclusion: Weapons don't need their exact weapon values, just as long as they keep the intended classification for what one would EXPECT the damage output to be. If an AC/10 did 15 damage, and an AC/20 did 30 damage, you'd know the difference since the AC/20 does more damage as the "biggest" Autocannon gun...

Edited by General Taskeen, 20 May 2013 - 05:16 PM.

[Lootee]

How about making it the way it should be? Give it the option to fire a single slug that does 10 points of damage.

The AC/10 is a terrible weapon and FASA recognized that and came up with the LB10-X AC which is better in every possible way. Lighter, cooler, longer ranged, and with 2 ammunition types it's supposed to be the preferred medium AC in 3050.

The AC/10 is terrible in MWO too and probably should be phased out by the LB10-X. The AC/20 does just as much damage as the AC/10 at 450m and even more up close. The Gauss Rifle does more damage at every range and both only weigh a few more tons than the AC/10. The LB10-X should supplant AC/10s on most mechs and MWO could be the first game to get the X AC series implemented correctly with both ammunition types.

Edited by PanchoTortilla, 20 May 2013 - 05:41 PM.

[karoushi]

Maybe if criticals worked then the LBX10 wouldn't be so awful.

If Criticals worked the LBX10 would be the best weapon to destroy peoples modules and internal structure instead of their armor.

Right now the pellets just kind of splat against armor and don't do jack.

[Karr285]

They might as well just make it a 1meter spread at 540 meters, cuz otherwise its absolute garbage no matter how much they close the spread by.

[General Taskeen]

PanchoTortilla, on 20 May 2013 - 05:18 PM, said:

How about making it the way it should be? Give it the option to fire a single slug that does 10 points of damage.

The AC/10 is a terrible weapon and FASA recognized that and came up the LB10X-AC which is better in every possible way.

The AC/10 is terrible in MWO too and should be phased out by the LB10X. The AC/20 does just as much damage as the AC/10 at 450m and even more up close. The Gauss Rifle does more damage at every range and both only weigh a few more tons than the AC/10. The LB10X should supplant AC/10s on most mechs and MWO could be the first game to get the X-AC series implemented correctly.

MWO would or will not be the first Mech game to get X-AC's right, at least if we are talking about giving a cluster its enhanced range ability:



Giving AC's or LB-X their extra munitions capabilities is just extra icing on the cake for variety's sake.

Second, just because a legacy cannon like an AC/10 is "bad" does not mean it must remain bad in a Mech Warrior game. Case in point, MW:LL made every type of Autocannon viable.

Edited by General Taskeen, 20 May 2013 - 05:35 PM.

[Vassago Rain]

karoushi, on 20 May 2013 - 05:21 PM, said:

Maybe if criticals worked then the LBX10 wouldn't be so awful.

If Criticals worked the LBX10 would be the best weapon to destroy peoples modules and internal structure instead of their armor.

Right now the pellets just kind of splat against armor and don't do jack.

Because it's an FPS shotgun that doesn't do any real damage. It needs to do at least 2 per pellet, or it's gonna stay worthless.

That, or they add slugs, but then muh precious AC10 has no reason to exist. So we're stuck with a worthless AC10, and a worthless LBX10.

[karoushi]

Karr285, on 20 May 2013 - 05:31 PM, said:

They might as well just make it a 1meter spread at 540 meters, cuz otherwise its absolute garbage no matter how much they close the spread by.

I wouldn't say the spread is an issue, reducing spread will just make it look like all the other AC's out there.

It just needs criticals to function, if it could destroy modules with random criticals through armor people would find it a much more useful weapon.

[Vassago Rain]

karoushi, on 20 May 2013 - 05:32 PM, said:

I wouldn't say the spread is an issue, reducing spread will just make it look like all the other AC's out there.

It just needs criticals to function, if it could destroy modules with random criticals through armor people would find it a much more useful weapon.

We're not ever gonna get through armor criticals, and modules aren't physical equipment you can destroy, anyway.

[Lootee]

General Taskeen, on 20 May 2013 - 05:31 PM, said:

MWO would or will not be the first Mech game to get X-AC's right, at least if we are talking about giving a cluster its enhanced range ability:



Giving AC's or LB-X their extra munitions capabilities is just extra icing on the cake for variety's sake.

If they can ripoff the game mechanic that allows cluster munitions to still be effective at 540m that'd be great too. But the whole point of the LB-X series was solid slugs for punching holes in armor, and then switching to clusters to exploit the weaknesses.

If they could somehow make it able to punch holes at 540m and splash damage at 540m, then you'd definitely see more people putting that weapon on their mechs.

The armor piercing ammo for the regular AC/10 would make it a contender too, but that shouldn't be available for some time right? In this game you could aim for the enemy's gauss rifle or legs and gib them with ammo explosions with the AP ammo pretty easily unless the chance to pierce armor is nerfed from TT values.

[karoushi]

Vassago Rain, on 20 May 2013 - 05:38 PM, said:

We're not ever gonna get through armor criticals, and modules aren't physical equipment you can destroy, anyway.

Well, by modules I didn't mean the unlockable's I just meant weapons and such. Equipment, basically.

But yeah, I see why they wouldn't do through-armor criticals but there has to be something. I like the above post (Pancho's) because that would be decent. Have armor punching shots and Critical Shot.

Edited by karoushi, 20 May 2013 - 05:48 PM.

[General Taskeen]

PanchoTortilla, on 20 May 2013 - 05:45 PM, said:

If they can ripoff the game mechanic that allows cluster munitions to still be effective at 540m that'd be great too. But the whole point of the LB-X series was solid slugs for punching holes in armor, and then switching to clusters to exploit the weaknesses.

Yes, that was a tactic in TT. However, not all stock builds utilized multiple munition bins (in case of lb-x: cluster or slug, or both). For instance, the stock Annihilator-1X: http://goodsects.got...te/pdf/5012.pdf

its loaded for bear with long-range cluster munitions, with smaller weapons as close-range backup.

Would it be great if they eventually added multiple munitions types? Yes, and the Devs have said they will explore that later, but definitely for now the LB-X balance should be focused on making that cluster ammo useful at range, like its supposed to, with an added damage bonus like other games already did.

Edited by General Taskeen, 20 May 2013 - 05:57 PM.

[Asmudius Heng]

LBX needs something to be more viable.

I posted a topic about this before:

http://mwomercs.com/...-a-real-purpose

In a nutshell the idea is to make each pellet do more damage the closer you are to the mech. This would make it a premier infighter weapon but just as inefficient at range as now. It would keep the flavour of a shotgun and differentiate it from the AC10 further. As long as the exact increase in damage is tested to not be OP it allows it to be a situationally good weapon but with a high application of that situation (more than the crit seeker function)

[Levi Porphyrogenitus]

So long as the LB-10X has cluster rounds only, it won't be viable while doing only 10 damage. By far the easiest thing to do would be to keep it at 10 pellets but make each pellet do more than 1.0 damage. I'd say it should start at 1.5 and be tweaked from there.

[Svalfangr]

Levi Porphyrogenitus, on 20 May 2013 - 07:04 PM, said:

So long as the LB-10X has cluster rounds only, it won't be viable while doing only 10 damage. By far the easiest thing to do would be to keep it at 10 pellets but make each pellet do more than 1.0 damage. I'd say it should start at 1.5 and be tweaked from there.

hmm maybe i should start a poll to see what most people feel on the subject.