45 replies to this topic

[MasterGoa]

Hi all.

I understand that PGI is not resisting people using
external software to make a 4-5-6 AC2 jager shoot
at an astronomical rate, causing heavy damage in just
a few seconds.

Are there plan to make chain fire rate adjustable or
counter those with a longer AC2 reload time?

I would have no issue with AC2 staying the same,
but some of these mouse macros are kinda rediculous...

Please advise.

[The Cheese]

Firing AC2s one at a time in rapid succession does not do more damage than firing them all at once. Many macros aren't perfectly timed to fire the first gun again as soon as the cooldown is up, meaning that they actually do less DPS than if the player were simply to alpha them and hold the trigger down.

Rapid firing also causes the damage to spread around the target's chassis more than if they just alpha them all because the timing that they strike the target will be staggered.

Heat does not dissipate at a faster rate when rapid firing AC2s than it does when alpha firing.

The one and only advantage of using a rapid fire macro is the screen shake that's caused at the target.

There's all that, and then there's the fact that people with 4-5 button mice can do it without any macro at all. You don't even need precision timing. Just roll your fingers across the buttons and hold them down.

So let's summarise:
Rapid firing AC2s does not provide a DPS advantage over alpha firing.
There is a degradation of accuracy when using a rapid fire macro.
There is no heat advantage to using a rapid fire macro.
Screen shake is the only advantage.
The same effect can be achieved without a macro.


Having said all that, I agree that the chain fire rate for the AC2 does need to be looked at. It takes way too long to fire the next gun if you hold the trigger down and rapidly clicking does not make it happen any faster.

Edited by The Cheese, 20 May 2013 - 06:54 PM.

[pencilboom]

MasterGoa, on 20 May 2013 - 06:23 PM, said:

I understand that PGI is not resisting people using
external software to make a 4-5-6 AC2 jager shoot
at an astronomical rate, causing heavy damage in just
a few seconds.

it doesn't make the damage any higher

[MasterGoa]

True, but with all the little explosions on your windshield, it does totally blind you...

And the shake and noise...

[The Cheese]

Can't argue with that, but again, using the macro doesn't make it shake/blind more or less than manually rapid firing.

Sounds like the issue is actually with the weapon itself rather than the macros some people use.

Edited by The Cheese, 20 May 2013 - 08:26 PM.

[Mazzyplz]

there's that, and theres the fact it's the only weapon that shoots 2 kilometers. when you can exert that pressure at 2 kilometers ya there's something off, you can't return fire even with erppc

[The Cheese]

Mazzyplz, on 20 May 2013 - 08:24 PM, said:

there's that, and theres the fact it's the only weapon that shoots 2 kilometers. when you can exert that pressure at 2 kilometers ya there's something off, you can't return fire even with erppc

Show me someone who can hold a rapid fire stream of AC2 shells on a moving target at 2km and I'll show you an aimbotter.

Edit: Just had a thought: Aimbots don't really work at that range because of the travel time. Still, at 2KM, the AC2 round is doing practically no damage and is damn near impossible to keep on target if the target is moving at all, let alone going fast.

Edited by The Cheese, 20 May 2013 - 08:38 PM.

[One Medic Army]

MasterGoa, on 20 May 2013 - 07:54 PM, said:

True, but with all the little explosions on your windshield, it does totally blind you...

And the shake and noise...

Yup, this is part of what made the old streak-pults so annoying.
I really wish PGI would remove the visual effects from being hit for negligible damage.

Then again, at least with AC/2s the person on the other end actually has to aim for you.

[Mazzyplz]

The Cheese, on 20 May 2013 - 08:25 PM, said:

Show me someone who can hold a rapid fire stream of AC2 shells on a moving target at 2km and I'll show you an aimbotter.

who said moving target, i mean when you're on top of those rocks on tourmaline, tryng to snipe with your er ppc, and waiting for the recycle time, you're getting hammered by ac2 at 2000 meters non stop.
there's not a lot of space to move around when you're on those high hills unless you really want to drop and damage your legs. it's not a problem when hitting stalkers and the like because it's a fair fight, but these ac2 guys will peel your armor faster than a banana

IMO you should be able to shoot fast OR shoot far.
these guys have it both, a machinegun that outranges everything

and you know what? that's bull****

Edited by Mazzyplz, 20 May 2013 - 08:45 PM.

[Kaspirikay]

It's apparently fine since everyone can do it as well if they had the 3rd party software to do it. What need to happen is for it to be integrated into the game.

[pencilboom]

Mazzyplz, on 20 May 2013 - 08:35 PM, said:

who said moving target, i mean when you're on top of those rocks on tourmaline, tryng to snipe with your er ppc, and waiting for the recycle time, you're getting hammered by ac2 at 2000 meters non stop.
there's not a lot of space to move around when you're on those high hills unless you really want to drop and damage your legs. it's not a problem when hitting stalkers and the like because it's a fair fight, but these ac2 guys will peel your armor faster than a banana

IMO you should be able to shoot fast OR shoot far.
these guys have it both, a machinegun that outranges everything

but still..1 damage at 2km away...not to say that if the target is moving which makes it even harder to land a shot.
and tbh quoting you at "you're getting hammered by ac2 at 2000 meters non stop." then there's gotta be something's wrong..either you're just standing still and not moving at all while getting hammered from 2km away or you simply just letting the enemy to shoot you..

[The Cheese]

Mazzyplz, on 20 May 2013 - 08:35 PM, said:

who said moving target, i mean when you're on top of those rocks on tourmaline, tryng to snipe with your er ppc, and waiting for the recycle time, you're getting hammered by ac2 at 2000 meters non stop.
there's not a lot of space to move around when you're on those high hills unless you really want to drop and damage your legs. it's not a problem when hitting stalkers and the like because it's a fair fight, but these ac2 guys will peel your armor faster than a banana

IMO you should be able to shoot fast OR shoot far.
these guys have it both, a machinegun that outranges everything

Standing still anywhere makes you an easy target. Standing still on top of an open hill is like wrapping up your CT with a big red bow and asking the enemy to open you up. If you're sniping from the high rocks in tourmaline with PPCs, I'd recommend that you back up to get out of LOS as soon as you fire, then only go back out when you're ready to shoot.

At 2km, all AC2s will do is shake you up.

Kaspirikay, on 20 May 2013 - 08:44 PM, said:

What need to happen is for it to be integrated into the game.

Agreed. Changing the chain fire mechanic to fire at every click would do nicely.

Edited by The Cheese, 20 May 2013 - 08:52 PM.

[TB Freelancer]

I'll add just one thing to this conversation.

All any ***** with two braincells to rub together to get the exact same effect the macro users are is to put the weapons in 6 groups, mouse button on alpha and simply roll their fingers across the 6, then hold down that alpha button on the mouse....

.....doesn't increase fire rates, doesn't increase DPS, doesn't do a damned thing that isn't in someone's mind beyond the increased visual and sound effects than what the weapons normally do.

[Mazzyplz]

pencilboom, on 20 May 2013 - 08:45 PM, said:

or you simply just letting the enemy to shoot you..

did you miss something on my post? normally what i do is take a place up high on one of those crystal formations.
it's usually ok because i can shoot all types of mechs from there, stalkers, highlanders, 6 out of 10 games it's a great spot to be in. and then sometimes i get those ac2 jagers and i get the short end of the stick, i still think it's unbalanced that one of the fastest weapons is the longest reaching
i return fire when i can sure but my damage is not constant either. so in those 3 seconds er ppc is reloading i'm getting dakkadakka to the face.

so let me guess in your mind there's no place for a ER PPC user to stand on a hill and snipe right?
you want the ac2 to trump them every time
even when popping head in and out you're still not getting the better deal

it's not even supposed to be a sniper mech, but **** it. somehow your dakkadakka snipes better than the sniper

Edited by Mazzyplz, 20 May 2013 - 09:00 PM.

[pencilboom]

Mazzyplz, on 20 May 2013 - 08:52 PM, said:

normally what i do is take a place up high on one of those crystal formations.
it's usually ok because i can shoot all types of mechs from there, stalkers, highlanders, 6 out of 10 games it's a great spot to be in. and then sometimes i get those ac2 jagers and i get the short end of the stick, i still think it's unbalanced that one of the fastest weapons is the longest reaching
i return fire when i can sure but my damage is not constant either. so in those 3 seconds er ppc is reloading i'm getting dakkadakka to the face


so let me guess in your mind there's no place for a ER PPC user to stand on a hill and snipe right?
you want the ac2 to trump them every time
even when popping head in and out you're still not getting the better deal

huh..what? so you whine because you cannot stand on top of those crystal formations due to the enemy is returning fire at you? why don't you look at it as a counter for your sniper?

ac2 while has fast ROF and extremely good range, deals only little damage mind you. Even if the enemy is boating 5-6 AC/2, at 2km's away at best he's just doing 0 to 1 damage to you.

"in those 3 seconds er ppc is reloading i'm getting dakkadakka to the face"

it's quite balanced I'd say...

"even when popping head in and out you're still not getting the better deal"

excuse me, but stalker, highlanders, jagermechs with high alpha long range weapons (PPC,ERPPC,Gauss) are better at popping head in and out A.K.A ridge humping compared to those ac/2s. they deal 30-40 damage in an instant. all they gotta do is pop their head out, alpha 30-40 damage, head back in..rinse and repeat.. for those ac/2s to remain effective, they need to sustain their fire, which means they need to expose themselves..

BUT...to be fair with you, yes, the ac/2s gives great suppression effects. but that's all

Edited by pencilboom, 20 May 2013 - 09:16 PM.

[The Cheese]

Mazzyplz, on 20 May 2013 - 08:52 PM, said:

so let me guess in your mind there's no place for a ER PPC user to stand on a hill and snipe right?
you want the ac2 to trump them every time
even when popping head in and out you're still not getting the better deal

That's not what we're saying at all. We're just saying that standing still against any sniper isn't going to go well. If they're just waiting for you to pop out again so they can keep shooting you, I'd suggest switching sniping positions.

[Mazzyplz]

The Cheese, on 20 May 2013 - 09:10 PM, said:

That's not what we're saying at all. We're just saying that standing still against any sniper isn't going to go well. If they're just waiting for you to pop out again so they can keep shooting you, I'd suggest switching sniping positions.

it goes well against dedicated sniper builds, i don't care what you say because i know this to be true from experience. i can handle being shot from below if i put the first shot in and land my shots with diligence

dedicated sniper builds means NOT the ac2 dakka. the ac2 jager is NOT A DEDICATED SNIPER.
i do well against snipers because i can actually return fire. and have similar rate of fire

the fact that they're doing 1 damage means it's ok? at many shots per second that 1 damage matters if they're not getting hit.

it's NOT MEANINGLESS damage, they're getting 0 damage and i'm getting 1 every half a second, it's NOT OK

Edited by Mazzyplz, 20 May 2013 - 09:18 PM.

[pencilboom]

Mazzyplz, on 20 May 2013 - 09:17 PM, said:

dedicated sniper builds means NOT the ac2 dakka. the ac2 jager is NOT A DEDICATED SNIPER.


the fact that they're doing 1 damage means it's ok? at many shots per second that 1 damage matters if they're not getting hit.

it's NOT MEANINGLESS damage, they're getting 0 damage and i'm getting 1 every half a second, it's NOT OK

well, it is not..I'd rather call it the suppression machine..I'd never thought it's a good counter sniper until you said you're helpless against them..

I'm not saying that 1 damage is ok..But it certainly gives you PLENTY of time to move and switch to another sniping position...Right?

[The Cheese]

Mazzyplz, on 20 May 2013 - 09:17 PM, said:

it goes well against dedicated sniper builds, i don't care what you say because i know this to be true from experience.

Sure, just like I know from experience that being in an AC2 Jegermech doesn't make taking 4 PPCs to the face any less painful than usual.

[Mazzyplz]

no it doesnt make it any less painful, but it does make it less painful when you're 1350 meters away, because max range is like 1300. then the ppc shot explodes mid air.

and sure it gives me time to switch positions, so what? i go up another hill and same story
i already posted this on balance, we'll see what comes of it.
that's all i have to say

Edited by Mazzyplz, 20 May 2013 - 09:26 PM.