183 replies to this topic

[The Anger]

MoonUnitBeta, on 28 May 2013 - 04:28 PM, said:

...
P.S. I understand the update frequency is related to the speed of the mechs...

each blip is a footstep, the frequency of blips is literally every step the enemy mech makes. so currently the update frequency is zero, instant. (edit - note, this is why mechs turning on the spot appear as blips too; the feet move)

in order for there to be an 'update frequency' involved, you would have to (for example) show all the footsteps in the last second at the same time, every second on the tick. every 5 seconds starts to sound reasonable (ie, 5 seconds of footstep data shown once every 5 seconds), perhaps have the upgraded version 5 seconds and regular 10? other changes would be desirable on top of this, but as a start anyway...

Edited by The Anger, 29 May 2013 - 12:38 AM.

[knight-of-ni]

Last night a Jenner was hiding in the upper portion of River city. I was in the trench just below about 200-300 meters away when I noticed the lone red dot on my minimap calling out to me. The red dot was not moving, and I was able to walk right up to him and blast him before he even knew I was there.

He apparently didn't have a seismic sensor, or he would have known I was coming.

I don't know exactly what, in this case, is qualified as "movement", but this module seems to have no problem picking up mechs that appear to be standing still. He wasn't turning either. There was no movement in the legs.

In addition to the previous arguments about the range of this module, in my opinion the sensitivity seems too powerful as well. All the other mech has to do is cough, and it shows up on the minimap.

EDIT: Spelling

Edited by knnniggett, 29 May 2013 - 05:11 AM.

[BrokenNachtmahr]

I am still using it. It still feels like I am hacking when I have it on. It really helps when you are playing D. The range allows you to get in the best defensive position to counter back cappers.

[Syrkres]

One I love em.

But I think they are a bit too powerful (range wise).

A few things could be done which may keep them somewhat balanced and make some interesting combos (and note these are just suggestions).

Start making the modules work in conjunction. That is maybe the seismic sensor is by default forward (180 degree) facing, but by having the 360 module it checks all around. Or The Advance Sensor it increases the range.

Re-think/redo all the modules (or adjust them) so that they work better together, so people have to make trade offs which ones they select.

To get the max distance, maybe it's only forward or backwards, (but not 360?) unless you have enough slots (3? 4?) Or maybe it just takes 2.

By making the modules work in combination with each other requires players to choose which ones to pick. Do they want X or Y.

[MoonUnitBeta]

The Anger, on 29 May 2013 - 12:36 AM, said:

each blip is a footstep, the frequency of blips is literally every step the enemy mech makes. so currently the update frequency is zero, instant. (edit - note, this is why mechs turning on the spot appear as blips too; the feet move)

in order for there to be an 'update frequency' involved, you would have to (for example) show all the footsteps in the last second at the same time, every second on the tick. every 5 seconds starts to sound reasonable (ie, 5 seconds of footstep data shown once every 5 seconds), perhaps have the upgraded version 5 seconds and regular 10? other changes would be desirable on top of this, but as a start anyway...

that's pretty unreliable equipment if it didn't show it real time. It'd be kind of like the pixelated advanced zoom if it showed data in batches lol. Anyways, I always thought they used a formula for motion/turning instead of per footstep. It would make sense that it'd be to the footsteps, though, but not in a balance term which in this case the module is called for.
But maybe that's the route that PGI needs to take - toss out the actual per footstep logic and implement something that PGI can actually control and balance. Make movement based off velocity, and weight; the higher the numbers, the bigger or quicker the blips. It gives them some better control over what can be shown and how it's shown. It's a little extra work, but at least it's done properly, It also equips them with more ways to balance the blip frequency for greater or lesser sensor ranges.

Edited by MoonUnitBeta, 29 May 2013 - 04:33 PM.

[Tennex]

Balance SS with an update delay. Like conventional radar needs to spin and sweep causing a delay in position update.

With a delay in place. Faster mechs will have the oppretunity to get into position before their movements are updated on SS

[L A V A]

Last night I went to investigate a single blip and it turned out to be their whole team.

It's amazing how most people can't stand still. But when they do, it can be a big surprise.

Edited by xLAVAx, 30 May 2013 - 06:56 AM.

[ShadowSpirit]

Hylius, on 21 May 2013 - 01:31 PM, said:

Thanks for removing any need for things like scouting, flanking, or tactics in general. I really hated having to think, made my brain hurt. Now I can have a magical module watch my back for me without the possibility of any brawling flanker closing in.

QFT -- light mechs are largely pointless

... I mean .. wth is the point in terrain as radar cover? This module is a horrible implementation and it's a reflection on PGI and its staff and how they 1) view BattleTech 2) design games. This game is getting more and more dumbed down with every patch and new unbalancing features are implemented right and left (ECM, Radar / Wall Modules, etc.)

Edited by ShadowSpirit, 30 May 2013 - 12:07 PM.

[ShadowSpirit]

Oh yeah ...

Way to kick off another "ECM-like" debate with a terrible implementation.

You guys still don't get it.

[Koniving]

I like the idea, but maybe cut down the range, and then allow for a second unlock to get the increased range.

[Felicitatem Parco]

Can we get a graph that plots the Mech's Weight (x-axis) vs Speed (y-axis) that is required to trip the detection threshold?

[Mydgard]

Seismic Sensor is extremely overpowered, way to strong ...

[Asmosis]

since its picking up vibrations etc, being hit by any ballistic (or missile for that matter) weapon should make it go haywire blotting out your mini map with red dots.

Would make machine guns/LBX pretty fun

[Arcturious]

I don't see any issues with it. Everyone can take it, so it's no different to any other piece of equipment in the game.

Arguing that not having it is bad is exactly like saying you took a mech with a medium laser because it was all you can afford. Those guys with their expensive large lasers with more range should be nerfed to the medium laser!

You just play some more games until you can afford it.

Also, I like the tactical aspect of it. I'm finding I'm now starting to try and discover which enemy mechs have it by setting ambushes and deliberately luring them in. If they don't have the module, then they won't see me and won't spring the trap. If they do have the module then they will walk around the corner where I have prepared an ambush.

It adds more variety and options to your loadout and is not at all essential. Half the time I forgot to move it between mechs and it hasn't really affected my matches when I don't run it.

[AntharPrime]

Is anyone noticing if other modules and BAP is extending the range of the Seismic sensor. I've noticed that mechs seem to be able to notice me before coming around corners at ranges of up to 700ms.

[DeaconW]

Arcturious, on 30 May 2013 - 09:57 PM, said:

I don't see any issues with it. Everyone can take it, so it's no different to any other piece of equipment in the game.

So a "piece of equipment" that gives you radar-like visibility to all moving mechs in a 400M radius is "no different that any other piece of equipment in the game" when it basically eliminates use of terrain and flanking as tactics? Just like ECM, this module is a game-changer, not just a "large laser". If you can't see that then you are willfully blind.

[DeaconW]

Ibrahim al Arkab Hatomoto, on 30 May 2013 - 12:40 PM, said:

I love the module. I only have it on my light hunter though. I can see the utility of having it on many mechs but I disagree that it's overpowered.

This statement simply reveals what type of person/player you are...I use it as well, but am honest enough, for the good of the game, to acknowledge that it is too good. When I find myself looking at the mini-map more than outside the mech for targets...something is wrong.

[Butane9000]

I have to say, the module in it's current form is clearly overpowered.

That being said I do think it has a place in MWO. But it needs to be nerfed.

Seismic Sensor
125M Range
The lighter the mech the smaller the blip and it fades faster
The heavier the mech the larger the blip and it fades slower
Detects movement (only full walking, not turning) or falling

Adv Seismic Sensor
250M Range

[Blood78]

Love the idea and the module. However Seismic Sensor is too powerful especially when you've unlocked Advanced Seismic Sensor and get range boost up to 400m.

It actually can use a balance and nerf it, the range. I think Adv Seismic being only 200m is good enough. 400m is too huge of bonus. With seismic, you can now easily monitor tunnel, cave rush but also get a sense of what's around the corner and so forth. Which is huge benefit for anyone and adds interesting tactical dimensions but 400m is way too much. Also with seismic, you are essentially impossible to be snuck upon at 400m or less.

it's one moduel everyone must have and no longer an optional type deal because of enormous boost you get. If you don't have one, you are at a clear disadvantage in a big way.

[Doxylicious]

Checking this forum again.....

..oh whut? This module still not removed?

i havent played anymore since this wallhack is in this game and i used to play this game every day before ...