22 replies to this topic

[Tiberius GoodTimes]

Seriously those are my fav mechs. Would love to run or fly in my Mech o' love pheonixhawk. Just sad they are not available. I understand they cannot do all the mechs, but still I can wish

[Bilbo]

Ummm....there are Catapults. Did they ninja remove them since I played last night?

[Kyynele]

What are you smoking? Catapults are in the game.

Edited to add: Phoenix Hawk is unfortunately on the Unseen/Reseen list of mechs that have complicated rights to use, so it's unlikely to get to MWO.

Edited by Kyynele, 29 May 2013 - 01:01 PM.

[ReissTC]

...We already have Catapults?

In any case, no Phoenix Hawk since it's considered 'Unseen'. IIRC PGI doesn't want to touch the unseen mechs due to legal issues. I think these issues are related to the original Mechwarrior 5 trailer back in 2009 which used the Warhammer?

[Tiberius GoodTimes]

yeah I guess I need to spend more time actually reading the mechs. I found it under heavy. so now I have a goal mech to get.

thanks reiss that makes since lawyers make everybody do things different

[Dan Nashe]

Well, game companies appropriating other people's artwork without consulting a lawyer was probably the issue!
International IP law being what it is.
Written contract or it doesn't count!

Remember, lawyers are mostly like guns. They only do what their client tells them to do.
Now, class action lawyers are more like sticking HAL in an armed drone, but that's a different can of worms!

[Appogee]

I just got killed by a Camperpult boating LRMs.

Where can I find this game that doesn't have them? It might be more fun.

[NorrinRadd]

Maybe you are thinking of the Crusader, the 65 ton unseen from the original Battletech game. The Catapult is a replacement for it in spirit if not in looks.

[C E Dwyer]

ReissTC, on 29 May 2013 - 12:59 PM, said:

...We already have Catapults?

In any case, no Phoenix Hawk since it's considered 'Unseen'. IIRC PGI doesn't want to touch the unseen mechs due to legal issues. I think these issues are related to the original Mechwarrior 5 trailer back in 2009 which used the Warhammer?

It related to Battletech way before there was a computer game, unseen were pulled straight from various Japanese manga, Macros, Gundam, every single mech from the core game was basically stolen, rearmed, and renamed.

Its why I call bull shine when people say there was allways going to be the clans and there was allways going to be fed-com..etc..

If there was really all this lore, from the very begining,then there wouldn't have been the need to lift 30, or so items from others interlectual property.

[C E Dwyer]

Appogee, on 29 May 2013 - 01:43 PM, said:

I just got killed by a Camperpult boating LRMs.

Where can I find this game that doesn't have them? It might be more fun.

Thats what happens when you have a company of mechwarrior that were all scouts, lots of camping. and things being roasted over an open fire

Edited by Cathy, 29 May 2013 - 02:19 PM.

[Appogee]

The can't have been Scouts or they would have been better prepared.

Edited by Appogee, 29 May 2013 - 02:35 PM.

[Stone Profit]

DanNashe, on 29 May 2013 - 01:07 PM, said:

Well, game companies appropriating other people's artwork without consulting a lawyer was probably the issue!
International IP law being what it is.
Written contract or it doesn't count!

Remember, lawyers are mostly like guns. They only do what their client tells them to do.
Now, class action lawyers are more like sticking HAL in an armed drone, but that's a different can of worms!

DanNashe, on 29 May 2013 - 01:07 PM, said:

Well, game companies appropriating other people's artwork without consulting a lawyer was probably the issue!
International IP law being what it is.
Written contract or it doesn't count!

Remember, lawyers are mostly like guns. They only do what their client tells them to do.
Now, class action lawyers are more like sticking HAL in an armed drone, but that's a different can of worms!

someone who doesnt have the real story spouting off about contracts nice.

[Bishop Steiner]

Cathy, on 29 May 2013 - 02:15 PM, said:

It related to Battletech way before there was a computer game, unseen were pulled straight from various Japanese manga, Macros, Gundam, every single mech from the core game was basically stolen, rearmed, and renamed.

Its why I call bull shine when people say there was allways going to be the clans and there was allways going to be fed-com..etc..

If there was really all this lore, from the very begining,then there wouldn't have been the need to lift 30, or so items from others interlectual property.

would be nice if peopl ewho bring up the subject actually would get it right. Since the HAD procured the rights to use them (or so they thought) but ran into a myriad of issues where it turned out they didn't. Not going into the whole byzantine affair (you can look it up yourself if you are bored), but they were used in good faith, and even Harmony Gold didn't make a stink until AFTER FASA made a fuss over Playmates blatantly stole the MadCat.

And even from the get go, the Dragoons and Kerensky were included along with the SLDF storyline, which seems pretty indicative from that they did indeed plan on the Clans from the word go.

I do not 100% buy that the Madcat and some of the other Omnis were intended for the clans originally though, as the MadCat/Marauder, Loki/Warhammer, Vulture/Rifleman/Archer and Thor/Thunderbolt visual cues are all pretty apparent. Always felt that those were originally meant to be replacements for the mechs that eventually became Unseen when the writing on the wall became apparent. But I freely admit that is just my theory.

[Kyynele]

Cathy, on 29 May 2013 - 02:15 PM, said:

It related to Battletech way before there was a computer game, unseen were pulled straight from various Japanese manga, Macros, Gundam, every single mech from the core game was basically stolen, rearmed, and renamed.

Its why I call bull shine when people say there was allways going to be the clans and there was allways going to be fed-com..etc..

If there was really all this lore, from the very begining,then there wouldn't have been the need to lift 30, or so items from others interlectual property.

You do realize that writing a well-thought out lore might be somewhat cheaper to do than illustrating 30 mechs if you're not an artist yourself? Even an artist would likely struggle to come up with 30 unique designs in likely a very short timeframe and low budget. Not forgetting that giant mechas were an even more Japanese niche than they are today, and it was likely very very hard to find a western artist that had the expertise to draw good looking mechs. Frankly, most all of those old non-unseen mech illustrations look like ****.

At that point, I find it very reasonable that they tried to buy ready-made japanese designs to use in the game at it's starting point, and see no reason why this would mean there wasn't serious effort in other fields of game and lore design.

[Kaylos Thex]

As a fan of Macross and Battletech both, I don't really miss the Valkyrie type mech too much.

After all they did look like jets folded in half to make a robot. Not exactly a walking tank to me.

And I do believe the clans were in the lore from the start.
Their origin was. The self imposed exile of Alexander Kerensky and 80 percent of the Star League military was the reason the first succession war was even possible.

[Volondemort]

Is there going to be a Mad Cat or a Vulture mech? Always Loved them))

[Kyynele]

Volondemort, on 30 May 2013 - 01:14 AM, said:

Is there going to be a Mad Cat or a Vulture mech? Always Loved them))

Those are basic clan mechs. Clan invasion is confirmed coming soon. There are no legal problems with those mechs. Yes, they will be in the game - eventually.

[Volondemort]

Kyynele, on 30 May 2013 - 01:15 AM, said:

Those are basic clan mechs. Clan invasion is confirmed coming soon. There are no legal problems with those mechs. Yes, they will be in the game - eventually.

Sweet!))) First seen them in MC1 when I was a kid. It was Love at first sight)) Used to replay one of the first missions just to salvage the Mad Cat

[Adridos]

Cathy, on 29 May 2013 - 02:15 PM, said:

It related to Battletech way before there was a computer game, unseen were pulled straight from various Japanese manga, Macros, Gundam, every single mech from the core game was basically stolen, rearmed, and renamed.

FASA bought those designs, Harmony Gold's associate company stole the Mad Cat and FASA sued them. FASA lost most of it's money on the trial and got no compensation at all. Harmony Gold, who also owned the designs saw the chance and jumped on it, suing FASA over their ownership (altough both companies acquired them legally). FASA, being broke and unable to survive the expenses the court would come with, had to strike a deal with Harmony Gold...

In reality, it was us who were stolen from. Harmony Gold achieved a monopoly on the designs where there should have been none. They did so by exploiting the dumb court system the USA does and if there's anyone to blame, it's them.

So, in closing, I wish happy bancruptcy to HG and all it's employees. Nothing personal, just that's what justice calls for, since their actions cost FASA employees their jobs.

[Xeno Phalcon]

In a nutshell this is how it worked out: FASA bought the rights to use the 'unseen' mechs orignally for battletech, however due to someone at FASA being a legalnoob they got those rights from the wrong company (Tatsunoko Production Co., Ltd.) who actually did the art for robotech, but were not the trolls producing robotech in the states (Harmony Gold USA). This left a loophole basically where other companies (Playmates) were able to use them as well, I actually remember the 'mech toys put out by playmates on the heels of the battletech animated series. ( had a Elemental and I think Bushwacker when I was a munchkin)

That fiasco still causes annoyances for the BT/MW genre, most recently of course being the Warhammer seen in the original MWO trailer - after that popped out things went dead silent for like what? two years? Due to a Cease and Desist order issued by Harmony Gold USA, though the fact that a company thats nearly died off so desperately clings to those rights just annoys me. (I'll always keep a small glimmer of hope that one of the various companies that keep juggling BT around will take the time to bully the crap out of HG cause they simply don't have the financial stability to wage a legal war and would fold like a house of cards for any deal that would give them money )