181 replies to this topic

[hammerreborn]

CapperDeluxe, on 22 May 2013 - 11:24 AM, said:

I think its fair to say its here to stay, its part of the universe and introduces an interesting dynamic. As such it should be tuned.


To further "tune"/balance it, it would make sense that lighter mechs should not be as detectable until they get closer. So perhaps instead of a general lowering of range, it could be made as a percentage of 100 tons to 100% of the 200m/400m range.

For the current 200m/400m scale:

25 ton mech = 50m/100m detectable
50 ton mech = 100m/200m detectable
75 ton mech = 150m/300m detectable
100 ton mech = 200m/400m detectable


OR for a proposed 150m/250m scale:

25 ton mech = 37.5m/62.5m
50 ton mech = 75m/125m
75 ton mech = 112.5m/187.5m
100 tone mech = 150m/250m


Honestly if they did it like this, I wouldn't even bother with my own suggested 150m/250m scale, since lighter mechs will be able to get super close, basically within PPC min range before they are detected and responded to so they could keep their existing ranges and scale down by weight from there.

It should also have a speed component. A 25 ton mech going 150kph should be pretty easily detectable compared to one going 50

[trollocaustic]

How about Weightxspeed equals detectable range?

It'd us a reason to use the commandon't battle armor.
Advanced would have 1.5x the regular range.

Edited by trollocaustic, 22 May 2013 - 12:50 PM.

[Screech]

How about a thumper module. Or the ability to make your mech walk without rhythm.

Remember, PGI created the seismic module to train the faithful. One can not go against the word of PGI.

[trollocaustic]

Thumper is already it's own topic.

[Stoicblitzer]

for 17,500 GXP, it's great. legit radar hack out to 400m. i wish the blipping "waves" were tighter to the target. it gets a little confusing when there are 3+ in a cluster.

[Sprouticus]

Some folks (Cferre) think it should not be in the game because they think it dumbds down the game. Some others have advocated that every mech should have it by default. Most of us are in the middle. Neither of these is the right way to approach the issue. So how should we approach it then?


Ok, first and foremost we have to look at how PGI wants the game to play/behave. Up until now, we have assumed that they wanted sneaking to be integral to the game. Radar is LoS, ECM was very powerful, you drop target info very quickly without the module, etc.

So the next question is how much did they intend the gameplay to change with the Seismic Sensor (any UAV and BAP)? Only PGI can answer this, but my guess is probably a little, but not a LOT.

It it's current iteration it changes gamplay a lot. Probably more than many expected, including PGI.


The balancing factors for this module in game are:

1) Unlike a UAV you cant target anyone
2) It has a limited range
3) The minimap can get really ugly with a lot of mechs active
4 It takes up a module slot.


but even with those limits, it is still VERY powerful. Both because it 'sees through walls' and because of the 800m diameter. 2 scouts could literally 'watch' most of some of the smaller maps if they stood 800m apart. The seeing through walls is part of the module, so we than have to look at the range


So how do we fix it:

Assuming PGI wants this module to be close to the same value (maybe a tiny bit better since it costs more) as other modules...

1) A dynamic system of range (based upon target speed, target mass, etc). The upside to this is it introduces complexity into the syste, The downside is that it might take a long time for PGI to implement. A tonnage based system might not be horrific, but a speed base system probably would be a real headache.

2) Simply reduce the range. You could cut it to 200/100, but IMO 100m is pretty weak comparing it to other modules.Which would mean the std verison would be useless. So let's look at to 150/300 or even 150/250. Personally I think 150/300 would be fine. but 150/250 seems ok. The upside to this is they can hotfix it very easily.

[BillyM]

Equipped it for one game, caught a flanking Jenner-blip, turned and cored him immediately.

...now I agree 100% with anyone suggesting a range decrease to 150/250 or so...

--billyM

[Jungle Rhino]

That would explain how my Spider got mid-air PPC sniped while jump jetting between two buildings in Frozen city... He literally had to fire the shot before I was visible as I was in the open for a second at most.

Anyhow the thing that is most irritating about this obviously very powerful module is that it is inaccessible to newbs. I mean even the new 'not as ****' trial mechs they are releasing now just don't have a chance against a fully XP'd out Coolshot/Seismic - well anything really. It just widens the gulf even further.

[hammerreborn]

Essentially, as long as this thing exists and flamers still suck, there's no point to me playing my light other than to cap your base. So get used to it. Now you have no reason not to know I'm coming cause LOLWALLHAX and mega range radar with BAP

Edited by hammerreborn, 22 May 2013 - 03:15 PM.

[Cferre]

Sprouticus, on 22 May 2013 - 02:10 PM, said:

Some folks (Cferre) think it should not be in the game because they think it dumbds down the game. Some others have advocated that every mech should have it by default. Most of us are in the middle. Neither of these is the right way to approach the issue. So how should we approach it then?
Ok, first. blabla etc etc

Your proposal is nothing new. Some other guy said something similar a page back.
I have replied to it and I will not reiterate it again.

[TOGSolid]

Sprouticus, on 22 May 2013 - 02:10 PM, said:

Some folks (Cferre) think it should not be in the game because they think it dumbds down the game. Some others have advocated that every mech should have it by default. Most of us are in the middle. Neither of these is the right way to approach the issue. So how should we approach it then?


Ok, first and foremost we have to look at how PGI wants the game to play/behave. Up until now, we have assumed that they wanted sneaking to be integral to the game. Radar is LoS, ECM was very powerful, you drop target info very quickly without the module, etc.

So the next question is how much did they intend the gameplay to change with the Seismic Sensor (any UAV and BAP)? Only PGI can answer this, but my guess is probably a little, but not a LOT.

It it's current iteration it changes gamplay a lot. Probably more than many expected, including PGI.


The balancing factors for this module in game are:

1) Unlike a UAV you cant target anyone
2) It has a limited range
3) The minimap can get really ugly with a lot of mechs active
4 It takes up a module slot.


but even with those limits, it is still VERY powerful. Both because it 'sees through walls' and because of the 800m diameter. 2 scouts could literally 'watch' most of some of the smaller maps if they stood 800m apart. The seeing through walls is part of the module, so we than have to look at the range


So how do we fix it:

Assuming PGI wants this module to be close to the same value (maybe a tiny bit better since it costs more) as other modules...

1) A dynamic system of range (based upon target speed, target mass, etc). The upside to this is it introduces complexity into the syste, The downside is that it might take a long time for PGI to implement. A tonnage based system might not be horrific, but a speed base system probably would be a real headache.

2) Simply reduce the range. You could cut it to 200/100, but IMO 100m is pretty weak comparing it to other modules.Which would mean the std verison would be useless. So let's look at to 150/300 or even 150/250. Personally I think 150/300 would be fine. but 150/250 seems ok. The upside to this is they can hotfix it very easily.

Eh, I think the range is fine. The module strikes me as just being too sensitive. It should have issues with either picking up mechs at walking speed (like in basically every game with a sound radar ever), or have trouble picking up anything if you're moving too fast (like a towed array on a sub getting washed over by cavitation). That way there's skill and guesswork still involved with it but it's still very useful.

Quote

For the current 200m/400m scale:

25 ton mech = 50m/100m detectable
50 ton mech = 100m/200m detectable
75 ton mech = 150m/300m detectable
100 ton mech = 200m/400m detectable


OR for a proposed 150m/250m scale:

25 ton mech = 37.5m/62.5m
50 ton mech = 75m/125m
75 ton mech = 112.5m/187.5m
100 tone mech = 150m/250m

This is kinda slick too. It could be coupled with the speed idea I have. It's easier for lighter mechs to sneak up if they go slowly but an assault at the same throttle percentage could still trip the sensor from further out.

Edited by TOGSolid, 22 May 2013 - 03:23 PM.

[w0rm]

Yeah seismic does way too much for a one slot module.

[Deathlike]

w0rm, on 22 May 2013 - 03:47 PM, said:

Yeah *insert OP object here* does way too much for *stated requirement*.

You know what, this was the same argument for this thing called ECM, 6 months ago.

At this rate, we'll have another OP *insert new whinefest object here* soon. I await our next OP powerup.

[FupDup]

Deathlike, on 22 May 2013 - 04:20 PM, said:

You know what, this was the same argument for this thing called ECM, 6 months ago.

At this rate, we'll have another OP *insert new whinefest object here* soon. I await our next OP powerup.

Lostech Shield Consumable. AAAHH YEEEAAH!!

[Soy]

I think some people are missing the point of this thread.

Let me take time to elaborate.

Basically, Seismic is Lord.

Anyone trying to argue about stuff, like whos ***** is bigger, should promptly get the fudge out cuz this is a thread dedicated to the worship and spreading of the word of Seismic.

Amen.

* Suggestions for changes are welcome, ofc.

Edited by Soy, 22 May 2013 - 04:42 PM.

[Deathlike]

Well, I must be one of the special few then...

I got a BJ when it first came out and the seismic module... I'm usually not an early adopter...

So, I'm really enjoying this Seismic BJ experiment.

[aniviron]

Soy, on 22 May 2013 - 11:02 AM, said:

Cuz you referred to it as 'game breaker'

Show respect for the Seismic majesty

and call it by correct nomenclature

Lord, Emperor of the Star League, etc.

Primus?

MustrumRidcully, on 22 May 2013 - 11:10 AM, said:

Just 20 tons more, and we can have the Charger.


Not sure we want to, but we can. Perhaps.

We already have the AWS-9M. Who needs the Charger?

[Pale Jackal]

Seismic seems a bit counter to the dev's previously stated goal of wanting line of sight to be important.

I'd say nerf the range to 270m. 400m is crazy.

[Wolke]

I really don't like it.

To specify a bit:

I don't like how it counters flanking attempts just by someone noticing some blips on the radar.

Imho there should be some active juggling of radar controls to use it. For example you would have to switch to "seismic mode" and lose the normal radar view during that time. Switching would take a few seconds and you'd be locked into that mode for another few more. Or make switching from mode to mode easier (not instant though), but in seismic mode you do not see the difference between friendly and enemy contacts.

That way it would be a useful addition for a Mechwarrior assigned to e.g. guard against flanking attempts, but others that are dependent on the normal radar mode to e.g. snipe or use missiles would not benefit from it that much.

Edited by Wolke, 22 May 2013 - 05:24 PM.

[FuzzyLog1c]

The range should be reduced to 100m when you're moving. 300m when you're not.