181 replies to this topic

[Kiiyor]

Nicholas Carlyle, on 21 May 2013 - 01:06 PM, said:

Please elaborate. I have 55k gxp burning a hole.

FILL THE HOLE WITH ADVANCED ELECTRONICS.

[Kmieciu]

Wallhack up to 400 meters.
No counter.



"You can scout the cave without being inside the cave"

[Haniwa]

Actually this is the first "must have" modul.
Id prefer to have it no effect, when the opposing mechs move under 50% speed or you move above 50% speed.

[MustrumRidcully]

FupDup, on 21 May 2013 - 09:23 PM, said:

I'm starting to seriously wonder, what the heck is your vision of what lights should be in MWO? I want to hear it so that I can expose every last little flaw, loophole, inconsistency, and lie that is sure to be riddled within it. You've mentioned earlier that you don't like it when lights cap. You also don't like them being able to move fast. You also don't like that they have armor. You don't like it when they try to be sneaky. You don't like them having a smaller physical size. What role, exactly, does that leave the class with?

Cannon Fodder?

[trollocaustic]

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Id prefer to have it no effect, when the opposing mechs move under 50% speed or you move above 50% speed.

Being a straight number would make more sense, as why would attaching a bigger engine make you sneakier?
Say, going over 45mph

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Please don't deride a fragile mech just because you choose a big slow mech that cannot react to well when you let someone get at your rear. You have been outplayed. An assault mech should not be a "I win" mech.

So being a light mech is a "I win" mech. And using superior speed on a person effectively fighting in chains isn't skill.

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I'm starting to seriously wonder, what the heck is your vision of what lights should be in MWO? I want to hear it so that I can expose every last little flaw, loophole, inconsistency, and lie that is sure to be riddled within it. You've mentioned earlier that you don't like it when lights cap. You also don't like them being able to move fast. You also don't like that they have armor. You don't like it when they try to be sneaky. You don't like them having a smaller physical size. What role, exactly, does that leave the class with?

Personally? Scouts, LRM-boat hunters. Not frontline combat. A light mech soloing a non LRM-boat assault that knows what it's doing just by going behind is is downright absurd and to be honest, ********.

[Lt David Barns]

trollocaustic, on 22 May 2013 - 02:45 AM, said:

Being a straight number would make more sense, as why would attaching a bigger engine make you sneakier?
Say, going over 45mph

Which would coincidentally mean that a large number of assaults would just need to marginally decrease their maximum speed to turn invisible on seismic sensors.
No, if you want to use fixed values, you need to factor in tonnage, because a 100-ton mech going at 45kph creates a lot more 'noise' than a 25-ton mech does.

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So being a light mech is a "I win" mech. And using superior speed on a person effectively fighting in chains isn't skill.

Have you ever even tried playing a light? One attentive or lucky LLas-Stalker, StreakCat or AC40-Jag and you will have a hard time getting out of the situation with all limbs attached...
Good assault players will eventually get you into their sights if you don't do a hit and run, and staying behind an enemy mech usually only means that one of it's buddies turns around and shows you just what he thinks of your 'I-Win'.

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Personally? Scouts, LRM-boat hunters. Not frontline combat. A light mech soloing a non LRM-boat assault that knows what it's doing just by going behind is is downright absurd and to be honest, ********.

As said above, if the enemy assault knows what he is doing and isn't only equipped with lrms or regular ppcs he stands a very good chance of blasting you to bits.
Yes, I have felled highlanders and atlases in a spider, but in those cases the players hardly knew how to play aside from point, click and try to turn around while walking full speed forward. Quite often though you come across ones that take a moment to observe your attack angles, hit reverse and show you the destructive power of assaults.

David and Goliath, only if the latter uses his brain and doesn't underestimate the former the outcome is quite different from the original story...

Edit: That being said, one thing I worry about is a huge advantage seasoned players have over new players, who won't start off with a full seismic sensor set and thereby will be comparatively 'blind'. Doesn't do much to encourage sticking to the game if it must seem to you as if everyone and their mother has a working wallhack...

Edited by Lt David Barns, 22 May 2013 - 03:34 AM.

[Roadbuster]

I love this thing!
First game I used it was on Forrest Colony. What should I say, I couldn't stop laughing evilly when players tried to ambush through the tunnel or flank around a hill.

EDIT: It's not gamebreaking. It's possible to hear mechs walking behind a building or some other cover. You even hear mechs going through the tunnel on Frozen City. That's how I've located hidden mechs before and it's still viable. Seismic just increases the range and JJ can be a counter.
If you have some battlefield awareness you should be able to estimate where the opponents are anyway.

And, hey with all the long range sniping and LRM boating you'll never get under 400m, right?

Edited by Roadbuster, 22 May 2013 - 04:12 AM.

[Victor Morson]

5 stars, would buy again.

Are you a scout? You need it to see what's around the corner before you turn it.
Are you a brawler? You need it to see what's going on in the brawl!
Are you a sniper? You need it to see that AC/20 Jaggermech coming up on your back!
Are you a drop commander? You need it to get an immediate tactical picture of what's happening.

Effectively, no matter what you're doing, you want it.

EDIT: I'm fairly convinced that in an urban combat situation the team with Seismic Sensors will absolutely, positively dominate every time.

Edited by Victor Morson, 22 May 2013 - 04:08 AM.

[Wispsy]

Whilst seismic sensor on its own is not really a nerf or a buff to most lights it does change the playstyle by a fair bit.

One thing that makes me a little sad is no longer can I run 2x6medpulse Jenners and core 4+ people before anybody turns around unless I make a brand new account. Although with the sheer number of SSRMs in game right now that does not seem like a particularly fun idea even with no sensor...

[MonkeyCheese]

Victor Morson, on 22 May 2013 - 04:05 AM, said:

5 stars, would buy again.

Are you a scout? You need it to see what's around the corner before you turn it.
Are you a brawler? You need it to see what's going on in the brawl!
Are you a sniper? You need it to see that AC/20 Jaggermech coming up on your back!
Are you a drop commander? You need it to get an immediate tactical picture of what's happening.

Effectively, no matter what you're doing, you want it.

EDIT: I'm fairly convinced that in an urban combat situation the team with Seismic Sensors will absolutely, positively dominate every time.

This^

Brawling is fun with this module

I dont think its overpowered or anything, That blip you are stalking around that corner could be a splat cat or a atlas.

[Joseph Mallan]

What's wrong with you people? You are supposed to P & M! Get with the program!



On a related note. Nice to see a happy thread.

[FunkyFritter]

Definitely a game changer, will probably get nerfed once people catch on. Aside from the cost, the only thing I dislike about the concept is that there's no way to know when an enemy has this equipped. Counterplay is important, you can't justify moving slower if you don't know who has a seismic sensor in the first place.

[Syllogy]

Seismic is 100% worth the cost.

I would buy it if it were triple the cost.... which may mean that it's a tad OP... but then again, the restriction of module slots makes me choose between that and the other 3-4 modules that I really like too.

[Roland]

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A light mech soloing a non LRM-boat assault that knows what it's doing just by going behind is is downright absurd and to be honest, ********.

If a light mech is able to kill an assault mech currently, simply by walking behind him, it means that the assault mech pilot is trash.

[Tuonela]

sigh... I'm not a fan of making easy modules that highlight where the enemy is at all times. Part of hte tactical fun for me is to trick the enemy and being where they don't think I am. Engagements will be a lot more boring when everyone always knows where the other team is.

[Squirtbox]

trollocaustic, on 22 May 2013 - 12:35 AM, said:

I disagree, I'd say 400m is still short enough that a light can charge snipers before they can turn themselves.

You must be mentally challenged or play against the mentally challenged. Either that or you are really just a troll and need to go eat a bag of D's.

There is a total of 2 maps that easily give you more than 400m of space to circle around behind the enemy in a light. 1 of those 2 maps has an enormous open space on one of the 2 routes you could use.

Forest: Cave is easily covered by 1 mech on the antenna hill, water is asking to be lurmd to death
Frozen: Cave is easily covered by 1 mech near the elbow, going through the canyon is suicide as an entire team usually sits right there
Caustic: you can run 3 line and then die to lurms once you are in the open or go the 6 side and die to lurms before making it to either base
River: depending on which side the fighting is on you could run all the way to the other side of the river to get around without being detected or seen
Canyon: I've played twice so I'm not entirely sure of this one

While this isn't a direct nerf to lights its pretty strong. Couple this with the changes to BAP and LRMs and lights are getting close to being very rare. These changes make my jenner with its XBOX huge CT much less effective at stripping the armor off of exposed enemies since there aren't exposed enemies currently. It seems I will have to stick more with my erppc spider and poptart or tag so other mechs can do useful damage instead of my mech.

[Deathlike]

FupDup, on 21 May 2013 - 09:23 PM, said:

I'm starting to seriously wonder, what the heck is your vision of what lights should be in MWO? I want to hear it so that I can expose every last little flaw, loophole, inconsistency, and lie that is sure to be riddled within it. You've mentioned earlier that you don't like it when lights cap. You also don't like them being able to move fast. You also don't like that they have armor. You don't like it when they try to be sneaky. You don't like them having a smaller physical size. What role, exactly, does that leave the class with?

Light mechs should feel pretty:

[FupDup]

trollocaustic, on 22 May 2013 - 02:45 AM, said:

Personally? Scouts, LRM-boat hunters. Not frontline combat. A light mech soloing a non LRM-boat assault that knows what it's doing just by going behind is is downright absurd and to be honest, ********.

Scouting: I don't need a 35-ton binoculars on legs to tell me that the enemy is still camping behind the ridge. Whether our meta is poptarts, PPCs, or Lurms, this game actively promotes trench-warfare. What's the scout supposed to do after he finds the enemy's static trench? There's nothing left to scout at that point.

Also note that non-ECM lights are pathetic at scouting. You can't poke your neck out without being detected due to Advanced Sensor Range and now most people stack it with BAP. This means that in order to avoid detection, you'd have to take a long scenic route around the enemy. That's fine and dandy, but it will also take up a lot of time. By the time you get in position far behind them, your team will most likely have already begun to engage them and thus you effectively wasted a few minutes of your life. Non-ECM lights have to do non-scouting things to have a role.

Furthermore, scouting doesn't even give XP or C-Bills worth squat. Not being able to buy new chassis or upgrade existing ones for weeks on end is boring, hence why so few lights scout and so many turn to killing. This game has been structured from the ground up to promote killing and killing only. It even says in the loading screen that people who are a valuable asset to their team will reap the highest rewards. This is a hidden message directly from the devs that scouts are not a valuable asset because they don't reap rewards at all.


EDIT: Also, lights are so damn rare that you can't count on them to even be on your team. I've started using Trebuchets since this update hit and I can only go 105kph due to lacking speed tweak. I've been my team's scout almost every single freaking match and I'm generally the fastest mech on my team by a wide margin. I have to do most of the capping and base defending, and often I die to a coordinated ganksquad if I try to perform the capping/defending roles a fast mech should. I can barely do anything other than stay with the blob if I want to survive and get to the elite XP tree any day soon. It's sad and pathetic that lights have been hit by the nerf bat time and time again without any buffs to counter it.

Here's some research done by hammerborn: http://mwomercs.com/...19#entry2220919
Basically, this was some data collected during the 3050 challenge weekend. This was right when the Heavy Metal was released. Assault and heavy classes each made up ~33% of all mechs, whereas mediums were ~20% and lights down at 11%. This was before ballistic HSR, non-premium Highlanders, and the assault vs the world tournament: factors which will have decreased light (and medium) populations even further.

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LRM-boat hunters: They already do this, provided that the Lurmboat doesn't have backup weapons at all or an aware team to call for backup.

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Non-Lurmboat assaults: Assaults who know what they're doing already are able to take on ~2 lights at the same time and win, unless the assault is seriously damaged or the light in question is very good at what he's doing. In the case of being too damaged, that's tough luck. In the case of the light being really really good, then he earned the kill.

Edited by FupDup, 22 May 2013 - 08:28 AM.

[Trauglodyte]

I'm really starting to question whether some of you know how to pilot. Seismic Sensor has a 200m radius (400m diameter). If you can't sneak around someone that can only see you 75% of the range of a Medium Laser, you're just bad. Every map has their typical starting points and you should know them by now. Avoiding them is the key to going undetected and was before this module even came out.

[armyof1]

Just had a few matches (and crashes) using seismic module, and it's really crazy good. I mean for me as a user, for the game I'm not so sure. Gone are the days when you could sneak up on people or wonder who's around the next corner your turn. You'll basically know exactly how many are 400m around you and where they are. Frankly I think it takes away a lot from tactics and overall dumbs down the game and your need to look around and assess the situation.