13 replies to this topic

[danneskold]

I dont have one, wondering how the new AMS works vs. the new LRMs

[aniviron]

daemur, on 21 May 2013 - 04:56 PM, said:

Against small valleys of missile fire we found the new AMS to be incredibly effective. As the rate of fire has not changed, they begin to lose their protective benefits as more and more missiles reach the target at one time.

Interested to see what you think.

Cheers,
daemur

I appreciate the buff, it was badly needed, but nobody uses small numbers of LRMs. The smallest number of LRMs anyone who uses them carries is 20; 30 is considered to be a light payload, and 60+ is standard for catapults, stalkers, and awesomes. AMS needs to be more effective against larger clusters.

I'd actually like to propose a radical change- make it more effective against larger groups of missiles than smaller ones. Say it shoots flak or something, give each ams shot splash damage, so that it actually shoots down more than one missile per hit in huge swarms, and shoots down the same number or less in smaller groups. Right now part of why nobody takes a single LRM 10 is that AMS makes it worth it, which means anyone who wants to LRM uses 30-60 of them, and the boating mechanic makes it impossible to balance reasonably.

[Asmosis]

you can't reasonably expect two AMS units (mountable on one mech in some cases) to be effective vs a single heavy class LRM boat.

Also depends what he considers to be a "small" volley. I'd consider 3xlrm5 (commando) to be a small volley but its up to interpretation. i'd say up to 20 is small, up to 40 med and 60+ heavy.

[Heketon]

It isn't meant to be something to wipe out every missile, just a good chunk. AMS works better when your teammates use it as well. The system shoots at missiles within range, not just aimed at you. That way you and your buddy can help each other.

[Meister Brau]

hmm, but how does greater damage affect incoming missiles? I've read that each missile is supposed to have 1 health, so why increase the damage of the AMS? does it destroy more missiles per shot now?

[Asmosis]

I can only assume the 1 HP missiles is wrong, since AMS spits out rounds at the same speed as a machine gun so if it was 1 HP a single ams could reliably shoot down a lrm20 volley, and two would render any lrm boat neutralized. Its probably like a laser beam in that its broken down into much smaller damage packets.

from watching small incoming volleys (i think 5 lrms) it visually looks like its knocking out about 2 missiles per group on a chain volley (which is probably a lrm volley broken into 4 groups).

[Nik Reaper]

Do srm missiles have more hp than lrms ?
I just ran a spider and my AMS didn't shoot down even a single ssrm from a ravens 2xSsrms at about max range (~250m) while I was running away from it and looking back at it, but it did consume some ams ammo but a lot less than it does per lrm volley.

Edited by Nik Reaper, 23 May 2013 - 05:44 PM.

[Heketon]

Meister Brau, on 23 May 2013 - 02:47 PM, said:

hmm, but how does greater damage affect incoming missiles? I've read that each missile is supposed to have 1 health, so why increase the damage of the AMS? does it destroy more missiles per shot now?

I don't think its a damage buff as much as a rate of fire or accuracy buff.

Nik Reaper, on 23 May 2013 - 05:44 PM, said:

Do srm missiles have more hp than lrms ?
I just ran a spider and my AMS didn't shoot down even a single ssrm from a ravens 2xSsrms at about max range (~250m) while I was running away from it and looking back at it, but it did consume some ams ammo but a lot less than it does per lrm volley.

Against (S)SRMs, AMS isn't very good. There really isn't enough reaction time for it to intercept the missiles.

[Monkeystador]

daemur, on 21 May 2013 - 04:56 PM, said:

Against small valleys of missile fire we found the new AMS to be incredibly effective. As the rate of fire has not changed, they begin to lose their protective benefits as more and more missiles reach the target at one time.

Interested to see what you think.

Cheers,
daemur

Thats excatly the reason why you fire missiles in clusters.

[VVhiteVVolf]

Monkeystador, on 27 May 2013 - 12:04 PM, said:

Thats excatly the reason why you fire missiles in clusters.

And this is the reason why Artemis is less effective against single targets as it was before now

[HarmAssassin]

Originally a single AMS would knock down 5 incoming LRMs. If you fired an LRM5 none would get through, if you fired an LRM10 about half would get through.

The new AMS seems to knock out 9-10 incoming LRMs (depending on direction and how much time it can see the incoming missiles due to cover etc.). Right now firing an LRM10 is lucky to hit with 1 missile if the flight path passes a single AMS.

Fewer SRMs seem to be knocked down than LRMs. Against Streaks, a single AMS seems to knock down about 3 incoming streaks (if fired from far away).

As such any mech that carries less than an LRM15 might as well not shoot its LRMs unless doing so along with other mechs. If you're the only one with LRMs and fire less than 15 of them, you have no chance of landing a hit against even a single AMS.

Personally, I think the current AMS is a tad too strong. Yes it was originally too weak, I'd suggest a 25% reduction in their current damage.

[Drunk Canuck]

daemur, on 21 May 2013 - 04:56 PM, said:

Against small valleys of missile fire we found the new AMS to be incredibly effective. As the rate of fire has not changed, they begin to lose their protective benefits as more and more missiles reach the target at one time.

Interested to see what you think.

Cheers,
daemur

Useless when most LRM users are boaters, or everyone has at least an LRM 15 attached to their Mech, so multiple players targeting you makes AMS absolutely pointless if you get bombarded with missiles. You literally need to have dual AMS to protect yourself from boaters, and then you need about 8-10 tons of ammo to do it.

[Aslena]

have you ppl seriously not seen how little damage LRM's do? a boat carrying 1200 missiles was bragging about it to the group I was in and later he ran out of missiles and announced he was out of them... he did a whopping total of 150 damage with his 1200 missiles so who cares about AMS...

[VVhiteVVolf]

Aslena, on 28 May 2013 - 03:20 PM, said:

have you ppl seriously not seen how little damage LRM's do? a boat carrying 1200 missiles was bragging about it to the group I was in and later he ran out of missiles and announced he was out of them... he did a whopping total of 150 damage with his 1200 missiles so who cares about AMS...

Ack on that.
Packing 2 LRM15 or LRM20 and trying to do damage with this weapons is like trying to kill an elephant with a softair.
One the mech you are aiming at has AMS equiped you will not get a noticeable punch delivered.
Yes... you do get nailed hard if 3 stalkers take a shot at you where each of them is carrying 4 LRM15 but hey... what happens if 3 Jagermechs aim on you each carrying dual gauss?

And all this yada yada "you have to aim with everything but a LRM" is just rubbish. Sorry. LRMs are heavy, hot AND ammo depended, so HPS to DPS ratio is quite low compared to other guns.
They have been totally okay at early beta status....don´t get why they ever where changed.