17 replies to this topic

[Woky]

So I've been playing this game since closed beta and have mostly loved it since then. Originally I thought this was the best Mechwarrior title ever made. I can remember the brawls on Forest Colony, and Frozen city, where we moved into combat and slugged it out against the enemy teams, shrugging off damage and using personal initiative to out wit our enemy. There were sniper builds, LRM boats and some crazy "over powered" fast backs that were quickly nerfed into the dirt.

The game did have its bugs like the sun appearing on catapults, collisions that caused some hilarity and some balance issues but it was fun. Like no mech warrior game before we were fighting like the guys in the novels, up close and personal with some support mechs around to help.

Lately its been not that. Since the fix of jumpjets, and the massive heat changes to the PPC the long range game is the new king of hill so to speak. I haven't normally been one to complain here about mwo, but the game is really starting to get frustrating. In a prior ask the devs they said they wanted to limit engagement ranges and prevent this from becoming a re-skinned mechwarrior 4 where jumping snipers and streak boats ran the show, but here we are.

I'm not going to touch on the "balance" side of things, and I'm not saying every single build should be viable but I feel like the new playstyle is just no fun. For a couple months now I had been fighting an uphill battle against poptarting snipers who can position themselves so that no one can approach within 600m of them and maintain cover (Thanks Alpine!) and had decided that maybe if I become part of the problem that it would get fixed. By taking my very own poptart I found that the game just became no fun instead.

Now with the newest patch I see a bunch of new problems introduced that are taking away even more of the positive aspects of the game.

1st of all the LRM changes aren't really that bad. it was good to see some LRMs on the field again, I think once that angle change and splash get under control they will be fine, the only downside to LRMs showing up is that with another viable playstyle added, we get yet another long range weapon flying around.

The SRM changes while I can get where they came from, the new fan for the "LBX 6" makes them a less effective brawl weapon compared to before. This is another hit to the non high alpha brawling game and makes me sad.

Seismic Sensor, holy crap this thing is insanely op. I can see every moving mech within 400m. One of this games greatest features was that you could use at least a bit of stealth avoid los, and use some tactics to get around an enemy and engage them. It was the only way to actually get into a brawl. Now when you come around that corner to back shot the enemy, there are 3 poptarts waiting to unload 135 damage worth of PPC's and gauss into your face immediatly as you come around. Seismic is a great concept, but perhaps the range needs a nerf, or perhaps some modules need to be "role" locked i.e. scouts can take it and non scouts cant. This would require a ton of new modules be released so every role got some, this isn't really very realistic.

UAV - this is great, yeah it helps those cowardly long range jerks, but I like it, once you can auto resupply consumables i'll like it more, gj on the UAV pgi, both interesting and requires some finesse to use effectively.

Canyon - Great map, after the Alpine map came out I had low hopes but you proved me wrong, possible my fave map so far, at least tied with River City night and Forest colony snow.

PPC change - yeah I read that, still should have gave it an 80% chance to flatten your hard drive when fired. Please hurry with he heat for this thing maybe make it do 0 damage past max range rather than out to double ( really this would help with all weapons i think, realitic... maybe not but possible even goes to 150% range rather than 200% and damage drops a crap ton faster past max range)

Blackjack - havent tried yet, I killed a bunch of them tho, not my style of mech but not all mechs work for everyone so thats no ones fault but my own.

Over all I feel like the current dominance of long range combat is killing the game for me. The feel of being in a huge tough machine has been destroyed by high alpha assaults, the feeling of a varied amount of mechs with different weights and styles was killed by the lack of weight mix in most drops. ( Even heavies are starting to get a lot more rare in my drops, mediums are nearly extinct, and typically tend to do horribly when they do shop up).

The only thing keeping me logging in is my being a sucker for punishment, and I feel less and less satisfied to play, and more and more wishing this game would get back to where it was and be fun again.

[Seddrik]

I agree that the brawls are what are the most exciting part. With all the long range stuff now... its hard to find a decent brawl. I've been forced to make a 5 ppc sniper and a LRM boat just to hit anything. All my brawlers hit mauled (by LRM) when I try to get anywhere near an opponent mech.

LRM - I know everyone has their opinion of what should be done. Some miss the old dominance days, many hated that. Personally, I thought they were fine before this patch. You didnt want to stay in the open and get hit, but you could evade them if you planned well for cover, etc. Now... meh. Up the damage? Ok... I can see that. Speed the missles and change trajectory? No. Simply no. (Don't need to add that splash damage needs fixing, they acknowledged that.)

Seismic Sensor - While a cool idea... it ruins stealth and flanking. I saw a battle between a spider and another large mech, 1v1 at the end of a round. It was stupidly easy with seismic. The spider never could flank the guy. No longer do we need to have fear and anticipation of that sneaky little guy coming to core your back. Nor do we get to feel the excitement of being the one sneaking up to core someone's back. This just... detracts from the fun of the game. The OP's suggestion of lessening the ranges and making them role specific would help greatly to recover some of that. Like an ECM, not everyone can carry those...

UAV - Haven't tried it, but have felt the force of it. And during this current LRM dominance... its horrible. I was hidding behind a building waiting for the team to move up, no enemy in sight. Suddenly 5 mechs popped up and shot me at once. One rounded left side, one rounded right side, one popped over... etc. From every direction. It was blatant that I was not hiding at all, but they swarmed me and I never knew anything was coming. UAV... meh. No longer can we sneak about and surprise anyone. We are forced to stay in multiple ECM bubbles.

Canyon - Agreed, good map. Different from the others which is good to see.

PPC change - Increased damage drop off would be useful in curbing this. Increased cool down... eh. Only slows the frequency of shots. (And that just when snipers are needed to counter LRM boats!) If I understand correctly, PPCs were given a close range damage buff (slight)? Was better without that, because that was the downside of being a dedicated long range sniper... you could get rushed and suffer for it.

"Over all I feel like the current dominance of long range combat is killing the game for me." Agreed.

"I feel less and less satisfied to play, and more and more wishing this game would get back to where it was and be fun again." Agreed.

PGI, please be more gradual in changes. Don't forget your player base. I just invested $30 into one mech and few bays. TBH thats a bit pricy, but I understand you are under development still. I would honestly buy more if the prices were more reasonable. I won't even mention paint prices... of which I have bought none.

I won't mention the name of the other FTP game I went with for a while and invested a lot into. Liked their model. You could get any content IF you played long enough, but it would take you a while to earn access to everything. But you could buy faster access, permanent things (like storage), etc. and speed up access... and it never felt overpriced even though I spent enough to buy a brand new game many times over. I bought a lot of stuff I wanted and stuff to keep up with friends. Also played wow for a long time (only subscription game I ever played) until their content got so watered down and they changed player controls so many times I got sick of it finding a great build only to have it nerfed and muddied. I would suggest permanent account purchases (like paint) be more reasonable, and hero mechs. Not like ya'll are gonna make more of them so you can continue to make cash... Just don't make us spend $30 per hero mech and $5 per color. And be much more gradual in changing weapons/builds. Your players work to find a great, enjoyable build. Even with snipers being powerful, for the most part there were a lot of brawls... until LRM got super buffed.

At the moment, I know people who are taking breaks... which is sad to see. Not trying to flame or anything, just hoping for better judgment in development. Please don't lose touch with the player base.

Edited by Seddrik, 22 May 2013 - 02:40 PM.

[StandingCow]

Agreed with woky. The game's direction toward long range combat is really hurting a lot of people's interest. I don't mind saying, the NA Bat for DHB is struggling to keep active people interested in the game. We have dealt with poptarts and PPCs for a while now... The LRM changes, while welcome, came at a bad time.

The focus needs to shift more toward brawling in order to keep the game fun, at least that is my opinion.

Edited by StandingCow, 22 May 2013 - 04:44 PM.

[Undead Bane]

While I am and always was since CB a dedicated sniper, the amount of long range is just no fun now.
It did take some skill to snipe before, it's just so easy now.
No fun - is what the game is mostly for me. I basically play different games now and wait for balance to show up again.

Returning PPCs to where they were before heat fix - probably no. They were hardly usable back then. But going for some gradual changes in heat balance may be a way to fix that.

IMO, introducing CS-like (say what, it STILL is a competitive game, you know?) cone of fire mechanic would be a better solution for quite a few problems, bugging the game right now, but this idea is so feared by the devs and many of the playersю So sad for me. I would really prefer seeing that cone mechanics and proposed it multiple times on the old-dead forums. It would give damage spread, it would kill boating, it would make poptarting very iffy.. But hey, it is considered to be a horrible grim reaper for "skill play" (again, why then CS is still a competitive game?).

And again, dear PGI. I've invested in this game A LOT, aside from buying the biggest available founder's package. Please, give me and the likes of me a reason to keep doing that.

P.S.
You used to require Agile experience for the developers. Where is that Agile style? Changes are HUGE every time. Please, get to gradual changes, this is much easier way to achieve the goals of balancing.

Edited by Undead Bane, 22 May 2013 - 06:03 PM.

[StandingCow]

I think the community test server they mentioned will help out a lot. But that doesn't really help us right now. :/

[BUDFORCE]

Are founders tags broken? Cant seem to get the game to show it.

[StandingCow]

BUDFORCE, on 22 May 2013 - 10:10 PM, said:

Are founders tags broken? Cant seem to get the game to show it.

It should be a setting within the actual game... but last I heard that option was missing. Forget where the thread was.

[No7]

Just feel the stupid need to comment on the brawler comment.

In close beta and up until the HSR for ballistic went live, the game was brawler heaven. There was almost no reason whatsoever to do anything else since everything in the game favored brawling. So you basically had 10 months or so, being in your brawler paradise. To complain now that it is hard to get a good brawler game going, is a bit annoying.

MWO is not a brawler game. (check out the upcoming Heavy Gear Assault, it might be just what you are looking for).

MWO is a game that must have long range combat, as well as short range and mid range.

It should be possible to snipe someone at extreme range.

It should be possible to engage enemies at long range, 1km.

It should be possible to engage enemies at close range as well.

It is not hard to get some brawling going even in a solo pug. But when solo pugging, you are totally dependent on the other 7 how the game goes. If you drop with 7 team mates, and you are all brawlers. You will stomp the other team pretty easily if the map favors it. If you land on alpine, you should not be able to get an easy win because that is the design of the map. You will still win if you play well though.

Also, how long did it take before alpine arrived? from day 1 of closed beta, until alpine arrived, this game was pretty much brawler only. And since day 1 of ECM (december 3rd?) until recently, that module alone, used by a competent team, enabled the team to get an easy brawler game.

So now, when we are starting to get a balanced game, where short range are just as valid as long range, we can start cheering with joy. Not sulking because your fantastic brawler game is not that, anymore.

Btw, I had a bad game yesterday when I tried to go brawling against the enemy team which was lrm/ppc only with several atlas ddc. I wanted to check SRM and how the splatcat would do. We lost horribly, but it was easy to get into brawling range and do some damage. I did 880 damage even though we lost 8-3. It is the very easy mode.

7

[GKnightBC]

I agree completely with Woky and Seddrik on the playability issues. LRMs and other long range build completely outclass brawler builds to the point of absurdity. The new tactic seems to be to build a mech with at least one LRM on it, then you have more than half the group dropping missles nearly straight down onto anyone foolish enough to try and close distance. IMO, LRM angle should be restored as well as speed. I play a lot of variants, both long and short range, and I've have no success with brawler mechs since the patch. Oh, and add to that the option of UAV and you make it unnecessary to even expose your LRM mech to LOS.
I've been enjoying the game, so far, PGI, but I think you've over done it with the long range emphasis.

[BUDFORCE]

Yeah the option to display founders tags is missing

Back on topic however, I dont think its too bad it most maps now. I like the LRM changes, before they were pretty useless and although you see loads and loads of people using them now, I just think it is because they have been buffed a little, I dont think they are overpowered at all.

As far the game turning into a snipe fest, really depends on the map, but that huge arctic map is just aweful. I cant even be bothered to play properly on that map anymore.

[Bullseye69]

I have no problem countering the pop tarts I run the highlander and can give better than I get even when out numbered.
I do have a problem with the insane attack angle of the lrm now. The speed increase was fine and needed and the damage increase was needed also. The splash and angle needs to be fixed while we have people still playing before everyon goes and fines something else to play. I have seen or tried the seismic sensor or uav yet but II would say maybe nerf the range on seismic because stealth should come into play or at least maybe limited it to class. Still waiting on my null sig system for my mechs.

The canyon I love that map but it a bear to play on with the LRM the way it is.

[StandingCow]

Bullseye69, on 23 May 2013 - 04:04 AM, said:

I have no problem countering the pop tarts I run the highlander and can give better than I get even when out numbered.
I do have a problem with the insane attack angle of the lrm now. The speed increase was fine and needed and the damage increase was needed also. The splash and angle needs to be fixed while we have people still playing before everyon goes and fines something else to play. I have seen or tried the seismic sensor or uav yet but II would say maybe nerf the range on seismic because stealth should come into play or at least maybe limited it to class. Still waiting on my null sig system for my mechs.

The canyon I love that map but it a bear to play on with the LRM the way it is.

Yea, they are fixing the angle soon, not sure if they are hotpatching it in or if it's just next patch though.

[CanAm]

No7, on 22 May 2013 - 10:24 PM, said:

Just feel the stupid need to comment on the brawler comment.

In close beta and up until the HSR for ballistic went live, the game was brawler heaven. There was almost no reason whatsoever to do anything else since everything in the game favored brawling. So you basically had 10 months or so, being in your brawler paradise. To complain now that it is hard to get a good brawler game going, is a bit annoying.

MWO is not a brawler game. (check out the upcoming Heavy Gear Assault, it might be just what you are looking for).

MWO is a game that must have long range combat, as well as short range and mid range.

That's not what the fine gentlemen at DHB are advocating. They (and I) have been saying that the long-range meta shift is making the game stale, boring, and one-dimensional.

There are times and places for brawls, mid-range engagements, and sniperfests. Every game now is turning into missileboats throwing unavoidable missiles at eachother and anyone trying even remotely to close range or engage up-close is torn apart in seconds.

Notice how base-capping is no longer viable? It's because you can just defend it from across the map without worry.

[HAV0C]

<S>

I agree with what Woky, and others have said here. The hotfix to Missles was much needed and appreciated.

The reticle shake while jumping will help tremendously in the jump sniper problem, and I for one hope that the reticle still shakes as long as the 'mech is airborn, not just while the 'mechs jump jets are active.

I want to see a Mechwarrior Online where 'Mechs bring both long and short range weapons to the fight so they can at least bring damage on target at any rang with something. Where combat happens at all ranges, not just long range. Let the brawlers brawl and the snipers snipe, at the same time. These two things should coexist within the confines of a single match (obviously, depending on the map one may be more prevelent, but they should both happen to some degree or extent every match,) so that gameplay remains dynamic, and not stale. all brawling, the game will get boring and stale, all sniping, the game will get boring and stale. Having a blend of both to varying degrees based on map and mission will keep players interested far longer, as the inherent challenge will always be present for a player regardless of their prefered playing style.

Just my thoughts. I'll see you gents Dirtside. <S>

-Colonel Andrew "Havoc" Davis
Death's Hand Brigade Mercenaries

[BatWing]

I do support Woky with his comment.

I am mostly a Medium pilot. I invested long time to specialize and it is my favorite game style. All of the time I saw odification to this game killing the Medium class I suffered.

We call it "Fast Attack". They have sense on the battlefield when you can flank and quickly support the Heavies and Assaults of your team. It is a delicate job and requires the opportunity to be partially stealthy. In Fast Attack we know we cannot address and Assault "Face to Face" but we still need to have a chance to close up, possibly unseen and deliver our moderate damage.

I call it Moderate because a Medium cannot compete with the huge Alphas seems to be the ongoing rule nowadays.

As a Feedback to this patch I can say:
1 - Seismic Sensor: Need to be addressed. Either Class or Chassis limited or need to become a sort of expendable and NEED TO BE EXPENSIVE. Whatever the best solution it can be. Such a Sensor cannot be there for everyone on the battlefield because completely defeat the entire porpoise of THIS game. MWO kept a level of interest because of the "lack" of awareess, allowing some different style of game.

2 - UAV: It is a very nice introduction. However as anything else dramatically improving Awareness, it should be extremely expensive (it is already expendable) and possibly Class/Chassis Limited.

3 - Long Range Issues: useless to repeat what other people already said. However I think a partial solution to the massive Alpha coming from long range HAS TO BE an adjustment in Weight and Slots for the most powerful weapons. While a couple of PPCs/ERPPCs should be possible, boats with 4, 5 or more are just out of mind. This concept is possibly valid for any concept of boating. Switching from "Micro Analysis" to a "Macro Analysis", is not the Weapon itself, whatever it is, to be a problem usually, it is the excessive boating allowed of it generating an issue. Take a look at that concept instead "dancing" around improbable adjustments and balancing for single weapons. An example could be SRMs, where after whining for Splatcats and other boats, they have been modified, making the life really difficult to Other chassis who were counting on a decent small weapon to survive (see Mediums with limited number of launchers)

4 - Inability to express the game at different ranges: True to say it now looks like a Long range fest, but I wonder if a partial solution to it could be finally adopting some sort of valid drop limits. Possibly if there were limits we would not see tons of 90T. poptarts and/or 90T. LRM Boats or for what it matters 100T. LRM boaters. Yes, we know Lobbies and some Drop management is coming. What i am saying that till the day this will be addressed, this is the nature of the game.

So,strictly to the Patch concept, good things are coming out, but they are not implemented in the correct way IMO.

Future suggestion, adjust a limit to Boat weapons and finally work on a reliable Dropping system and we may be able to enjoy a complete game which takes advantage of 4 Classes of Mechs and 3 Combat ranges (Long, Medium and Close).

Thank you.

[Tommytools]

I haven't had fun in MWO for a long time... I miss playing, and want to... But every time I patch, log in and play a game I'm instantly reminded why I went to play other games. MWO has become stale and tasteless with PGI throwing ever more hot sauce over it in the hope it'll become more palatable, all the while the putrid smell from the kitchen gives us a whiff of what's to come...

I REALLY want to like MWO... I just can't as it is now...

TT

[Amberite]

Brawling: Good fun, still do it sometimes, but finding an element of agility with mechs actually outweighs any advantage of armour.

Seismic: Overpowered, yes. Tweak it down and make it Role specific? Yes, might work.

UAV: Tad OP but short lived so....meh...almost balanced but needs a small tweak down perhaps (range reduction and being targettable [or allow AMS to shoot at them])

PPCs: Needz more heat! PPC and ERPPC are hot guns, they need to redress the balance. Ballistics run out of ammo....Energy makes you hotter.

LRMs: Not too bad atm, some boating builds on certain maps can rule the roost, but overall ok.

So as it stands we need some balance sweeps done, certain modules nerfing, and bugs fixed.

As a partial aside, I feel that matches could be considerably more fun with more armour. ATM its too easy to use a high alpha builds and sever limbs from enemy mechs in single volleys (I know....I do it quite often [when hit registration works that is]).

[the pole]

My two cents: This game has become Mechwarrior 4: HD edition. Pgi found out they can't cut the mustard, advertising this as not like your father's mechwarrior. So game development is hard and they are looking for an easy way out and ppc gauss poptarts is the best way to do it.