28 replies to this topic

[NinetyProof]

So ... now we are getting back into the real world of LRM's actually being viable and what happens? Countless QQ threads about LRM's.

What's the real issue? BOATing weapons. Everybody wants to BOAT the maximum amount of weapons and basically *cheat* on defensive measures ... like AMS or Armor.

But ... but ... but ... if I equip AMS and Ammo and buff up my armor I am going to lose 3 tons ... WAAAAAAHHHHHH ... there goes my DPS .... WAAAAAAAAAH ... there goes my faster engine ... WAAAHHHH ...

Enough already.

Yes, they are going to nerf the splash damage a bit ... and yes, the flight path is going to get tweaked and that will allow you to "hide" better ... but seriously, you can't *fight* and hide at the same time, so once you actually come out from hiding and start fighting, you still gonna get hammered by LRM's.

LRM's have been missing for far too long. And they are not super powerful right now. Between locks dropping faster, and AMS and being able to hide from them, it's really not a big deal till mechs head out to the middle of an open field to brawl.

So yea, quit QQing and throw in AMS and beef up your armor ... then when they tweak them, your probably still gonna need to keep the AMS, but you should be able to lose some of the armor.

[armyof1]

AMS has always been over-rated by people that like lrms, often greatly exaggerating how effective they are at destroying lrms. Fact is you need almost the entire team carrying AMS staying packed together to take out a single salvo of 50 lrms. How well do you fight when packed together that tightly shoulder to shoulder, front to back? The answer is not well at all. Lrms need to have a reasonable flight path and non CT-focusing damage spread, which the devs acknowledged they don't have currently. So it's no wonder there are complaints, because once again the lrm mechanics are broken.

[NinetyProof]

armyof1, on 22 May 2013 - 01:11 PM, said:

AMS has always been over-rated by people that like lrms ... blah blah blah blah ... more blah blah blah

I already answered you in another thread ... and you obviously are "out of date" with your information.

Last night I personally watched my DC bring in an Atlas K with dual AMS and witnessed volley after volley of LRM's disappear. They did not look like 60 missile volleys, but they were definitely bigger then 10's.

So, instead of playing ChatWarriorOnLine, you might want to get in game and actually play the game and watch what is happening.

As far as most of your points? like: "Standing Packed Together"? Please ... you OBVIOUSLY don't know what your talking about based upon that single statement.

Nothing to see here .. move along ... just another forum troll talking out the side of his neck.

[armyof1]

As I said in the other thread, you fail to realise the speed buff of lrms nullifies a large portion of the damage buff to AMS, so save your poor insults.

[NinetyProof]

armyof1, on 22 May 2013 - 01:29 PM, said:

As I said in the other thread, you fail to realise the speed buff of lrms nullifies a large portion of the damage buff to AMS, so save your poor insults.

Quit ... being ... a ... troll.

Your being a complete ***** trying to be chatWarrior and playing theorycraft against somebody that sat and watched it transpire ... in game .. after the patch.

For all you know, there was a stealth buff or something else. I don't know ... I don't care.

Grab a dual AMS mech and jump in the game and see how it goes. Then come back and apologize for trolling.

KKTHXBAI

[n3ctaris]

armyof1, on 22 May 2013 - 01:29 PM, said:

As I said in the other thread, you fail to realise the speed buff of lrms nullifies a large portion of the damage buff to AMS, so save your poor insults.

Missle Speed: 100m/s to 120m/s = 20% increase
AMS: 2.0 DPS to 3.5 DPS = 75% increase

75% = 20%?

You maths badly.

[armyof1]

NinetyProof, on 22 May 2013 - 01:32 PM, said:

Quit ... being ... a ... troll.

Your being a complete ***** trying to be chatWarrior and playing theorycraft against somebody that sat and watched it transpire ... in game .. after the patch.

For all you know, there was a stealth buff or something else. I don't know ... I don't care.

Grab a dual AMS mech and jump in the game and see how it goes. Then come back and apologize for trolling.

KKTHXBAI

Get over yourself already, you had no idea how many lrms were fired at the Atlas-K you were observing since you weren't the one doing the firing. As tightly as the lrms are grouped now it's really hard to tell. I certainly have not seen any super-powerful AMS since the patch.

n3ctaris, on 22 May 2013 - 01:36 PM, said:

Missle Speed: 100m/s to 120m/s = 20% increase
AMS: 2.0 DPS to 3.5 DPS = 75% increase

75% = 20%?

You maths badly.

More like you read badly, did I say anywhere it nullfies the entire damage buff? Old AMS used to shoot down 4-5 lrms, with the buff you get 6-7, not 13+.

[NinetyProof]

armyof1, on 22 May 2013 - 01:38 PM, said:

Get over yourself already, you had no idea how many lrms were fired at the Atlas-K you were observing since you weren't the one doing the firing. As tightly as the lrms are grouped now it's really hard to tell. I certainly have not seen any super-powerful AMS since the patch.

Your the one with the all inflated ego thinking you know squat about what I saw. Hell, you just admitted you have not even run an AMS in the current patch.

Quit ... Trolling ...

Go grab an dual AMS chassis, if you own one, and go find out.

And yes, you can get a feel for what is in a missile group by the graphics of the AMS ... and those dual AMS were firing more then 5 shots a piece. (2 x 5 = 10 ... as I know your math challenged).

ArmyOf1 = ArmChairWarrior.

Edit: Oh wait ... your the WAAH I WANT MY DPS SO i WON'T EQUIP AMS guy that I am talking about. You are actually proving my point ... LRM is not the issue, it's trolls like you that won't equip defensive gear that is the problem.

Edited by NinetyProof, 22 May 2013 - 01:44 PM.

[n3ctaris]

Quote

More like you read badly, did I say anywhere it nullfies the entire damage buff? Old AMS used to shoot down 4-5 lrms, with the buff you get 6-7, not 13+.

Removing LRM 5's, making LRM 10's actually 3-4's, halving the damage of an LRM 15 and taking a 3rd of the damage off a LRM 20 is not enough?

If you have 2-3 mechs within 200m of each other you actually nulify THE ENTIRE volley...

Still not sure what the complaint is here.

Perhaps you play alone in the open a lot? You should find some friends.

[armyof1]

NinetyProof, on 22 May 2013 - 01:42 PM, said:

Your the one with the all inflated ego thinking you know squat about what I saw. Hell, you just admitted you have not even run an AMS in the current patch.

Quit ... Trolling ...

Go grab an dual AMS chassis, if you own one, and go find out.

And yes, you can get a feel for what is in a missile group by the graphics of the AMS ... and those dual AMS were firing more then 5 shots a piece. (2 x 5 = 10 ... as I know your math challenged).

ArmyOf1 = ArmChairWarrior.

Edit: On wait ... your the WAAH I WANT MY DPS SO i WON'T EQUIP AMS guy that I am talking about. You are actually proving my point ... LRM is not the issue, it's trolls like you that won't equip defensive gear that is the problem.

I've fired a bunch of LRMS, of which I knew exactly how many I fired, at mechs with AMS. That is better than guessing how many LRMS are coming at you.

And I don't think you know how the AMS works. You don't shoot down one missile with every shot fired, AMS fires a huge stream of bullets that will take out a couple of missiles, how else do you think you'll run out of 1000 shots sometimes?

[armyof1]

n3ctaris, on 22 May 2013 - 01:44 PM, said:

Removing LRM 5's, making LRM 10's actually 3-4's, halving the damage of an LRM 15 and taking a 3rd of the damage off a LRM 20 is not enough?

If you have 2-3 mechs within 200m of each other you actually nulify THE ENTIRE volley...

Still not sure what the complaint is here.

Perhaps you play alone in the open a lot? You should find some friends.

How often do you see people firing one lrm20 these days? In trial mechs maybe, otherwise you'll see volleys at least twice as much. And that's one volley from a single lrmboat. I'm not the one complaining, I'm replying to the whine from OP.

[NinetyProof]

armyof1, on 22 May 2013 - 01:54 PM, said:

How often do you see people firing one lrm20 these days? In trial mechs maybe, otherwise you'll see volleys at least twice as much. And that's one volley from a single lrmboat. I'm not the one complaining, I'm replying to the whine from OP.

Again, Mr ArmChairWarrior theory making up stories about everybody firing off LRM20's.

In reality, it has nothing to do with the LRM itself, but rather the tubes in the mech. You will notice there are very few mechs that have 20 tubes hard point. So it doesn't matter what the size is, it's the tubes that restrict the salvo.

You really only have the Cat C4 that has 20 tubes ... The highlanders have 20 tubes, but almost nobody is putting LRM's in them. That means the rest of the crowd is running 10 or 15 tubes in their hard points. That means you see mostly salvos of 20, 25 or 30 ... and rarely 2@20 each raining down.

Still, the point is, and was that people are QQing about LRM's and not equipping AMS. Just like you ... want to QQ about LRM and has not, to this point, gone into the game with AMS equipped.

Stop ... Trolling ...

[Monky]

AMS is useful for reducing missile damage, it is NOT a hard counter, and people need to stop expecting it to be.

The only hard counter to any weapon in the game other than streaks (due to lock blocking by ECM) is not being seen or being out of the extended range profile.

LRMs will hit you, and they will hit you in mass if fired in mass. Same goes for PPCs, Gauss rifles, medium lasers, AC20s, etc.

Once the splash damage is removed and the angle of attack is adjusted, they will be just about as effective as any other weapon - and that is where the QQ is coming from - people who aren't used to dying from LRMs just like they die from other weapons.

[One Medic Army]

If you actually check the math each AMS on the mech being targeted takes out roughly 6 missiles per volley.
An allied AMS placed along the flight path could take out up to 12.

200m range
120m/s speed
1 hp per missile
3.5 DPS for AMS

AMS wreaks havoc on small volleys, which is part of the reason single launchers/small volleys are worthless (also the CBill, tonnage, and hardpoint cost for Artemis, TAG, and BAP). AMS doesn't do much to stop large volleys though. Quad 15s firing all at once will only lose 10% of their power for each AMS, and since the 90% remaining is enough to seriously frag anything, cover is the order of the day rather than Trusting your AMS to save you.

The current patching for LRMs when indirectly fired makes functional cover extremely hard to come by.

It has been admitted by PGI and will be changed.
The other thing is the splash damage causing missiles to mostly damage the CT even though they're hitting all over the target mech. Again PGI plans to fix this.

Edited by One Medic Army, 22 May 2013 - 02:32 PM.

[n3ctaris]

One Medic Army, on 22 May 2013 - 02:29 PM, said:

If you actually check the math each AMS on the mech being targeted takes out roughly 6 missiles per volley.
An allied AMS placed along the flight path could take out up to 12.

200m range
120m/s speed
1 hp per missile
3.5 DPS for AMS

AMS wreaks havoc on small volleys, which is part of the reason single launchers/small volleys are worthless (also the CBill, tonnage, and hardpoint cost for Artemis, TAG, and BAP). AMS doesn't do much to stop large volleys though. Quad 15s firing all at once will only lose 10% of their power for each AMS, and since the 90% remaining is enough to seriously frag anything, cover is the order of the day rather than Trusting your AMS to save you.

The current patching for LRMs when indirectly fired makes functional cover extremely hard to come by.

It has been admitted by PGI and will be changed.
The other thing is the splash damage causing missiles to mostly damage the CT even though they're hitting all over the target mech. Again PGI plans to fix this.

+1 sir.

[Soy]

One Medic Army, on 22 May 2013 - 02:29 PM, said:

If you actually check the math each AMS on the mech being targeted takes out roughly 6 missiles per volley.
An allied AMS placed along the flight path could take out up to 12.

200m range
120m/s speed
1 hp per missile
3.5 DPS for AMS

AMS wreaks havoc on small volleys, which is part of the reason single launchers/small volleys are worthless (also the CBill, tonnage, and hardpoint cost for Artemis, TAG, and BAP). AMS doesn't do much to stop large volleys though. Quad 15s firing all at once will only lose 10% of their power for each AMS, and since the 90% remaining is enough to seriously frag anything, cover is the order of the day rather than Trusting your AMS to save you.

The current patching for LRMs when indirectly fired makes functional cover extremely hard to come by.

It has been admitted by PGI and will be changed.
The other thing is the splash damage causing missiles to mostly damage the CT even though they're hitting all over the target mech. Again PGI plans to fix this.

Word; also -

[NinetyProof]

One Medic Army, on 22 May 2013 - 02:29 PM, said:

... AMS doesn't do much to stop large volleys though. Quad 15s firing all at once will only lose 10% of their power for each AMS, and since the 90% remaining is enough to seriously frag anything, cover is the order of the day rather than Trusting your AMS to save you.

Not to nit-pick but ...

Quad 15's? meaning 4 x 15 = 60? Which chassis has 60 tubes again? The C4 has 40 tubes ... so that would be a salvo of 40, followed by a salvo or 20 right? Yes, there have been a lot of C4's around lately, but you see more chassis with 30 or less tubes tossing out missiles.

Also, keep in mind, my point is that people that are QQ'ing about LRM's are the ones *not* equipping AMS (and skimp armor) ... if *everybody* in a team equipped AMS, and you were reasonable close to your team mates, LRM salvos of any size would be completely negated ... theoretically speaking.

Edit: The point is, that although you personally can not completely hard counter BIG LRM's with your AMS, your team can completely hard counter LRM's with AMS, if they are built like a team and work like a team.

Edited by NinetyProof, 22 May 2013 - 02:41 PM.

[One Medic Army]

NinetyProof, on 22 May 2013 - 02:39 PM, said:

Not to nit-pick but ...

Quad 15's? meaning 4 x 15 = 60? Which chassis has 60 tubes again? The C4 has 40 tubes ... so that would be a salvo of 40, followed by a salvo or 20 right? Yes, there have been a lot of C4's around lately, but you see more chassis with 30 or less tubes tossing out missiles.

One of the Awesomes, and the catapult A1 and C4 could do it last I checked. 15 tubes, 2 hardpoints using it, last I tried you got 30 missiles out at once per set of launchers and tubes, the game checked the number of tubes vs the size of the volley for each launcher individually rather than for the complete volley.

Quote

Also, keep in mind, my point is that people that are QQ'ing about LRM's are the ones *not* equipping AMS (and skimp armor) ... if *everybody* in a team equipped AMS, and you were reasonable close to your team mates, LRM salvos of any size would be completely negated ... theoretically speaking.

Edit: The point is, that although you personally can not completely hard counter BIG LRM's with your AMS, your team can completely hard counter LRM's with AMS, if they are built like a team and work like a team.

The reason people don't bring AMS is that getting to cover is a much better solution than standing in the rain. The current problem is that cover isn't working as well as PGI wants it to.

[Wispsy]

NinetyProof, on 22 May 2013 - 01:32 PM, said:

Quit ... being ... a ... troll.

Your being a complete ***** trying to be chatWarrior and playing theorycraft
KKTHXBAI

Oh the hypocrisy...

[armyof1]

NinetyProof, on 22 May 2013 - 02:22 PM, said:

Again, Mr ArmChairWarrior theory making up stories about everybody firing off LRM20's.

In reality, it has nothing to do with the LRM itself, but rather the tubes in the mech. You will notice there are very few mechs that have 20 tubes hard point. So it doesn't matter what the size is, it's the tubes that restrict the salvo.

You really only have the Cat C4 that has 20 tubes ... The highlanders have 20 tubes, but almost nobody is putting LRM's in them. That means the rest of the crowd is running 10 or 15 tubes in their hard points. That means you see mostly salvos of 20, 25 or 30 ... and rarely 2@20 each raining down.

Still, the point is, and was that people are QQing about LRM's and not equipping AMS. Just like you ... want to QQ about LRM and has not, to this point, gone into the game with AMS equipped.

Stop ... Trolling ...

Well from your tube theory, can you explain to me then how it is possible when I have 2xLRM15 on each arm on my JM6-A, all 60 missiles can fire at the same time? Well I can, because your tube theory is wrong. The amount of tubes only restrict how many missiles can be fired at the same time from one of the LRMS. So 2x15 can be fired in one salvo from one arm with 15 tubes, thus 60 LRMS can be fired in one salvo on the JM6-A. If you're going to call me a troll, can't you at least say something that is correct once in a while? Just like your wild fantasies where the AMS is twice as powerful as everyone else's.

Edited by armyof1, 22 May 2013 - 02:58 PM.