69 replies to this topic

[Bishop Steiner]

Dalziel Hasek Davion, on 23 May 2013 - 06:42 AM, said:

Hello OOG. Welcome to the (Beta) party.

If you can see an enemy 'Mech and it has an empty red triangle over it, none of your team is currently targeting it, and you should be able to (press 'R' unless you remapped the key).

If you can see a 'Mech that does not have a triangle over it - and you can see the little blue triangles over friendlies (sometimes the IFF is bugged and no one has a triangle), that 'Mech is an enemy 'Mech that is either 1) too far away to target or 2) under an ECM blanket. You will not be able to target any enemy 'Mech under an ECM blanket unless you have a Beagle Active Probe and are in close range. Don't try and target it - blaze away if you think it's a good idea.

Targeting a 'Mech is a good idea - as you probably know - because the rest of your team can see it, you can use streaks and LRMs on it, and after a short period of time, you will see their armour diagram and loadout - helping you know what range to best engage at (or whether to run away) and which bit to shoot at. However - don't worry too much if you cannot target the 'Mech. The rear side torso armour is invariably weakest, the legs are also worth a punt.

Scoring points and CBills in a Light 'Mech is not easy. However here are my tips (warning - I'm certainly not as good as I think I am).

1. Play Assault rather than Conquest - Light 'Mechs are great at Conquest - but the rewards don't seem to be as high for me. Your mileage may vary.
2. Go for Kill Assists, rather than kills (hit every enemy 'Mech on the map with at least one damage). The ERLL is your friend here - it has massive range and is easy weapon to hit with. Just mounting one on your 'Mech will allow you to 'ping' enemies from a long way away and then relocate.
3. Hide behind the big guys, stick with them and 'escort' rather than scouting. If you get caught on your own by Light hunters, you will be taken down with few opportunities to escape. Once the big guys engage and are occupied, take pot shots, help out, look for opportunities to get behind the opponent.
4. Keep moving to minimise chances of being one-shotted. Never peek over a ridge if you can belt across at high speed and back again.

Good luck. If you need a team to drop with once Koniving's had his way with you, then let me know.

just gotta +1 ya for having my Stalker in your Siggy! Thanks!

[Koniving]

It depends on the mech.

Some mechs benefit from the XL, some do not. The reason Atlas mechs are so hard to kill aside from the sheer amount of armor?

(Me in an Atlas recorded last night. The weapons were jokes...that surprisingly worked out to 6 kills.)

Edit: Video credit: Lordred.

It's because they almost never run with XL engines. This means even if both of their shoulders are blown off and both of their arms are gone, they can keep moving.

The XL or Extra Light engine makes up for its light weight by consuming more area in both side torsos as well as the center. The main three causes of death are loss of pilot (cockpit destruction), loss of legs (automatically terminated due to inability to fight and limitations in game engine) or loss of engine / reactor. Since part of the XL engine is in each side torso losing the side torso means you lose part of the engine. That means you lose the engine, and thus you die.

With the Jenner this does not matter. Your weaker side torsos are virtually impossible to hit due to their size when you are moving at high speed. Standard or XL engine you'd be just as hard (or easy) to kill either way.

Now if you were to be in something like the Atlas think about how large those side torsos are! On the average default Atlas, there's LT/RT Front / Rear armor 64 / 20 and CT F/R armor 94 / 28. Clearly the side torsos are MUCH weaker...and so big. Thus an Atlas will only suffer a swift death with an XL engine.

On the other hand, a Cicada to include your X-5 has small side torsos. That as well as the issue of being barely able to carry the weight it needs to truly fight, basically encourages the Cicadas to use XL engines.

The X-5 you do not want to drop armor on since you have Ferro armor. You'd have to drop twice as much to gain the same weight as you would with standard. My main choice is the engine and weapons.

Check this out for my personal rig. Mine is not a close range fighter like most X-5s, but I prefer dealing damage and survival over getting lots of kills when using a mech like the X-5. This vid is before the recent updates to missiles so while they were very weak. Now it's even better.

Edited by Koniving, 25 May 2013 - 08:35 AM.

[mailin]

With any light and the Cicada, XLs are nearly essential. I say nearly because if you want to create a niche build that doesn't go very fast, then maybe a standard engine, but I can't imagine myself or any other light pilot finding that build very useful. Lights are all about speed and being able to deliver a bit of a punch if necessary. (Some more than others.) Save up for XLs for all your lights, and DHS, and endo, and FF. Who says lights are cheap? Maybe to get in them, but to make them the most effective you gotta spend some c-bills. Don't worry about an XL making your light more vulnerable. Most people aim for the legs because once a leg is taken out the speed drops to 40kph, and chances are that the other legs has also take a lot of hits in the process. (As soon as I get legged I begin firing on my attacker, because let's face it, a light without a leg is kind of like a turtle or a beetle that's been flipped on its back.)

[Unnatural Growth]

Lol on the beatle thing, that's how I feel sometimes for sure!

I think my biggest problem so far in the light is I'm not running fast enough, or I'm getting blind sided by a mech I didn't see when I pop over a ridge or around a corner. Still not scoring much damage at all most matches, but I think part of the time I get in trouble by trying to get in there and "score" some. Still sorting it out I guess. If I hang back and "survive", then I'm not really doing any good in the match, and I'm not being an asset to my team. If I try to get in there and score some hits, I'm getting ripped to pieces pretty fast.

Maybe I need to crank speed up all the way and just run through, trying to hit a couple mechs on my way out the other side? Then run clear out, and turn and set up another strafing run back through again?

On a side note, for mech pilot xp, how much xp should I get in my first mech before I switch to second (and then third) mech? I think I'm at 7-8K xp on the first Jenner now. Is it time to buy another one, or just keep running this one? And I'm finding out from reading, that the 2 hero mechs I have, the Jenner and the X-5, are already pretty decent builds.

I would like the BAP or extended range mods, or even TAG or NARC for scouting, but it looks like I'd have to tear apart both builds to have them. I already have the steel structures, upgraded armor, XL engines and DHS's, which everyone says are good to have, but I don't have any slot room or weight left over for the modules.

And as always, thanks guys for all the help and advice. I read it all, and have been reading a bunch of other threads in the new player forum. It all helps, even if I'm a slow learner.

[scJazz]

OldOrgandonor, on 25 May 2013 - 06:51 AM, said:

I think my biggest problem so far in the light is I'm not running fast enough, or I'm getting blind sided by a mech I didn't see when I pop over a ridge or around a corner. Still not scoring much damage at all most matches, but I think part of the time I get in trouble by trying to get in there and "score" some. Still sorting it out I guess. If I hang back and "survive", then I'm not really doing any good in the match, and I'm not being an asset to my team. If I try to get in there and score some hits, I'm getting ripped to pieces pretty fast.

1) I am the master of locating the enemy by ridge jumping directing into the middle of them. It happens.
2) You are the Scout... first to see the enemy... not first to shoot at them necessarily. Having located them turn around and go back toward your team. Once they are engaged you are now free to do your second job... shooting stuff. Try and focus fire with them... or go harass the LRMBoats, Poptarts, or other Lights depending on the situation.
3) On Conquest maps especially... keep track of the points. Maybe shift and go capture a point. Maybe all of them.
4) Keep track of how many friendlies are down vs enemies. At some point you might have to decide to run for the Cap!

[Unnatural Growth]

I was playing with a Jenner build in smurfy,

I put one together with endo steel, FF armor, an XL250 engine, 4 med pulse lasers, 13 DHS's, Artemis IV and BAP. Firepower is 24, DPS is 2.75, but cooling efficiency is only 43%. I'm running max armor on all pts, 34.6 tons total weight, and my top speed is 115Kph.

So, is this a death trap/oven? Top speed too slow?

[scJazz]

OldOrgandonor, on 25 May 2013 - 07:51 AM, said:

I was playing with a Jenner build in smurfy,

I put one together with endo steel, FF armor, an XL250 engine, 4 med pulse lasers, 13 DHS's, Artemis IV and BAP. Firepower is 24, DPS is 2.75, but cooling efficiency is only 43%. I'm running max armor on all pts, 34.6 tons total weight, and my top speed is 115Kph.

So, is this a death trap/oven? Top speed too slow?

- Med Pulse + Med Lasers weight saved can be used for things like BAP nevermind you have one of those already.

Artemis is useless unless you have missiles.

Knock off 3 or 4 points of armor. Now you have 0.5 tons free. Use some of the Laser change to add AMS. Otherwise some punk like me in a Trebuchet will see you 700m away at the Cap Point and loft 30 LRMs at you on general principle. AMS + Moving + Situational Awareness will keep you alive when that happens.

Use the last bit of weight savings to... get a bigger engine or add SRMs.

Ignore any of these details as you wish... mix and match! Have fun!

ohhh and 43% heat efficiency is amazing! You might not even need all those DSHS. Of course overheating a Jenner and shutting down is a very very bad thing. Next time you play Caustic Valley fire your weapons like crazy. Did you shutdown? Nope? Remove some HS. Repeat until you do end up shutdown on that map. Great! Now you know that on any other map shutting down is basically impossible as Caustic Valley is current hottest AFAIK.

[VonRunnegen]

One thing - if you're dying in the first two minutes it probably means you're engaging too early. As a fast mech you can reach the enemy quickly - but to do so means you run, alone, into a full team. This is bad. As you learn the maps better you'll gain a better idea of where they can be and when. Scout to spot them but don't worry about 'lock' - just see them, run away and type the location to your team. Job done. Now wait for your team to be backing you up before fighting more, and if the battle involves two teams sniping from opposite positions then still take care, running in will still be a death-sentence.

In a Jenner speed & maneuverability are life, same as all lights. Get used to keeping moving, keeping turning, varying the speed, using jumpjets to turn faster and to make smoke/dust but seldom to make big jumps. Remember moving more doesn't mean moving towards the enemy more! Try to peek round the ends of the battle lines, get an idea of if they're trying to flank etc but without actually running up to anyone.

Oh, and as others have said, don't bother trying to lock for doing damage, lasers don't care. Yes, tap 'R' to get info about the enemy you're fighting and to allow friendlies to join in but thats about it.

[Koniving]

OldOrgandonor, on 25 May 2013 - 06:51 AM, said:

Lol on the beatle thing, that's how I feel sometimes for sure!

I think my biggest problem so far in the light is I'm not running fast enough, or I'm getting blind sided by a mech I didn't see when I pop over a ridge or around a corner. Still not scoring much damage at all most matches, but I think part of the time I get in trouble by trying to get in there and "score" some. Still sorting it out I guess. If I hang back and "survive", then I'm not really doing any good in the match, and I'm not being an asset to my team. If I try to get in there and score some hits, I'm getting ripped to pieces pretty fast.

Maybe I need to crank speed up all the way and just run through, trying to hit a couple mechs on my way out the other side? Then run clear out, and turn and set up another strafing run back through again?

On a side note, for mech pilot xp, how much xp should I get in my first mech before I switch to second (and then third) mech? I think I'm at 7-8K xp on the first Jenner now. Is it time to buy another one, or just keep running this one? And I'm finding out from reading, that the 2 hero mechs I have, the Jenner and the X-5, are already pretty decent builds.

I would like the BAP or extended range mods, or even TAG or NARC for scouting, but it looks like I'd have to tear apart both builds to have them. I already have the steel structures, upgraded armor, XL engines and DHS's, which everyone says are good to have, but I don't have any slot room or weight left over for the modules.

And as always, thanks guys for all the help and advice. I read it all, and have been reading a bunch of other threads in the new player forum. It all helps, even if I'm a slow learner.

So long as there's more than 5 players still alive (including yourself), survival is first and foremost the key factor to any pilot running any rig. The exception is when the group begins to "push"; during a push everyone fights or everyone will die regardless. Once a push begins there is no backing down. It's succeed or fail. Pushes only fail under three circumstances: it was done too early, performed at a foolish angle of attack, or part of the group hesitates and thus they all die one by one.

However, once that player count dwindles survival is no longer a concern as death is inevitable. You then react by joining the largest group of surviving players and concentrating your fire on what they are shooting -- or as the light -- fend off any threats standing behind your largest ally.

If you fail to fend off a threat from your largest ally, this will happen to them. There were two threats, three allies to protect me. They focused on one and ignored the other.

The typical Jenner runs 150 kph. If you're running less than that you had best be packing missiles, large lasers. large pulse lasers, ER large lasers, or PPCs / ER PPCs.

Medium pulse lasers have an optimum range of 180 meters. They deal damage faster than medium lasers (require less time keeping the beam on the target), are ready to fire again sooner, and deal 6 damage total instead of 5. This is in exchange for more heat. To be honest you only need two of these and can supplement them with a backup of small lasers to double your damage in emergencies or in times of opportunity.

A video with medium pulse lasers in use on a light, and a perfect example of where a backup of 4 small lasers in addition to 2 MPL will be very useful is here. It is fast forwarded to the important stuff. Pay attention to the "Splat Cat" we identify after the first Catapult is killed.

-------
On the topic of Mech XP, first let me remind you that it is Exclusive to the Variant. Don't save it. Spend it. Just remember to save "GXP" as that is pilot experience, used in the pilot tree to unlock modules such as advanced sensor range, target retention, advanced zoom, capture accelerator (important for lights), and more.

Mech XP is up to you. Honestly you can get a new one right away or wait. Just remember not to sell one mech to get the next. Lately I collect all the variants and then start working on them as I've done with the new BlackJacks. However before starting that trend, I would complete a mech's Basic level upgrades while earning the cbills to get the next variant. Then I'd upgrade that one's basics while earning the cbills for the third. Then I'd upgrade that and backtrack through the rest to elite, master, play around with some build ideas... and finally decide on which ones to keep. The ones I dislike I'll discard at that point.

Tag can be used on any Jenner to help guide missiles.

NARC requires a missile slot. Be certain to announce that you have NARC so people can say whether or not they have missiles. If nothing is said in reply... don't bother firing it as chances are they don't have missiles to hit your target with.

BAP is useful for missile users or increase your targeting range to allow others to spot your target. Beyond that, there isn't much point as when you try to use it to 'spot' ECM mechs it is true you can see them. But your team cannot.

-------------------------

Remember our time in Conquest? We focused on capturing points, then on hunting enemy lights, and later when we were going to join the main fight it was already over? It's good for starters. When you get comfortable, then go engaging bigger clusters of enemies. Tag, NARC, and other goodies are best used on Assault when you are confident in yourself. Then the 'scout' role will much better suit you especially on Canyon where it's important.

OldOrgandonor, on 25 May 2013 - 07:51 AM, said:

I was playing with a Jenner build in smurfy,

I put one together with endo steel, FF armor, an XL250 engine, 4 med pulse lasers, 13 DHS's, Artemis IV and BAP. Firepower is 24, DPS is 2.75, but cooling efficiency is only 43%. I'm running max armor on all pts, 34.6 tons total weight, and my top speed is 115Kph.

So, is this a death trap/oven? Top speed too slow?

You have a serious heat issue. Other than that the mech is slow. You did not mention the missiles -- what launchers? Artemis has no actual use without missile launchers. If you are on the twin launcher Jenner, Artemis will reduce you to a single launcher.

With a rig like that the best advice anyone can give is to be an opportunist. Sneak up on enemies, zap their legs, and get the heck out of there. Otherwise you may want to fire the lasers one at a time in an endurance combat situation (chased by lights) otherwise you'll power down in a few shots. Then you'll die. At least you'll do insane damage before then.

I'll be hopping on so if you're around I'll pick you up for some more adventures.

[JovialJovian]

OldOrgandonor, on 25 May 2013 - 07:51 AM, said:

I was playing with a Jenner build in smurfy,

I put one together with endo steel, FF armor, an XL250 engine, 4 med pulse lasers, 13 DHS's, Artemis IV and BAP. Firepower is 24, DPS is 2.75, but cooling efficiency is only 43%. I'm running max armor on all pts, 34.6 tons total weight, and my top speed is 115Kph.

So, is this a death trap/oven? Top speed too slow?

Speed is key in a Jenner and that XL 250 doesn't provide enough 'oomph' for advanced scouting.  With that build it would be best to stick close to the heavies and lend your guns as direct fire support - don't go off hunting alone in that mech.  You have enough speed to take care of yourself in a hairball but don't get caught out alone and watch out for other lights.  Good luck!

[Aym]

OldOrgandonor, on 23 May 2013 - 06:17 AM, said:

Koniving,

Thanks for the offer, I really do appreciate it. I sadly don't have teamspeak. I do have some time to play this AM, and mostly this weekend. Very kind of you to offer to help me.

Team speak is free and easy to use. You should consider downloading it and seeing if some of our helpful players are around to give you live advice!

[Aym]

OldOrgandonor, on 25 May 2013 - 07:51 AM, said:

I was playing with a Jenner build in smurfy,

I put one together with endo steel, FF armor, an XL250 engine, 4 med pulse lasers, 13 DHS's, Artemis IV and BAP. Firepower is 24, DPS is 2.75, but cooling efficiency is only 43%. I'm running max armor on all pts, 34.6 tons total weight, and my top speed is 115Kph.

So, is this a death trap/oven? Top speed too slow?

Oh, it's a death trap. Any Jenner running with that small of an engine will most likely be in trouble. Artemis only helps missiles and USUALLY not enough to be worth it on a Jenner (since you only have the two critical slots for up to 2 launchers, artemis makes that tough...) Anyway, yeah, Ferro, DHS, and Endo, you should have basically max armor everywhere but your arms. Once again going 115 KPH in a light is just too easy to hit, you have to go faster.

[mailin]

Don't worry about Narc. Currently it's simply not good enough. One reason that there are so few varying builds for lights is that typically one would max the armor out, throw in the biggest XL engine it can carry and then take it from there. With Jenners you have some flexibility because of the jump jets. (I generally run between 2 and 4.) But once everything else is accounted for, there just isn't much weight to try exotic weapons.

[Koniving]

The UAV is really all you need. NARC has a use, but it shouldn't be a Jenner delivering it.

[Thomas Covenant]

@OldOrgandonor,

I've ran with Koniving myself. He was nice enough to respond to a thread requesting teammates. I too though, preffer to not use voice. Its a little too much to stack on my laptop.

You may click on the link in my signature for a thread with helpful mentors, though it's a new program so I can't guarantee the quality of some of the others, but the resource does exist. Like I said I too do not use voice, and I am available to teach.

[mailin]

In a previous comment, Jazz said that he thought Caustic was the hottest map. It's actually Tourmaline Desert. Also, as Konniving has mentioned, in Conquest mode, the job of any fast light is getting and keeping those cap points. Don't worry about doing damage in any mode. Stick to your job. CQ, capping, Assault, finding the enemy and upsetting their plans by being a pain in the ***. This usually means attacking from their rear and fading away. If one of the lumbering fools tries to chase you down, take note of their weapon range and try to stay just out of that while leading them back to your friendlies. Don't worry, your damage will slowly start to increase as you get better. There is a lot going on while piloting a mech. Your primary job is to stay alive, so that if you need to, you can attempt to win by cap. I try to avoid the direct combat until I am certain that my friendlies have a numbers advantage. Sometimes this takes place very soon, like when one enemy decides to Rambo us. Otherwise, look at your map. If you see a friendly fighting one on one with an enemy, try to get in there and help your buddy out. This may give you a savior kill, which means added money and xp. If you do this, you need to know when to cut your losses. If one or two of the enemy's buddies show up before he's dead, get out of there unless you are absolutely certain you can take them.

[scJazz]

mailin, on 26 May 2013 - 12:16 AM, said:

In a previous comment, Jazz said that he thought Caustic was the hottest map. It's actually Tourmaline Desert.

My bad... I thought the crater in Caustic was the hottest location. But then I'd be referring to a spot and not a map. So yeah... I betcha I'm only part right Tourmaline is hottest map and Caustic Crater the hottest spot.

Wishing I could find the reference

[mailin]

scJazz, on 26 May 2013 - 07:43 AM, said:

My bad... I thought the crater in Caustic was the hottest location. But then I'd be referring to a spot and not a map. So yeah... I betcha I'm only part right Tourmaline is hottest map and Caustic Crater the hottest spot.

Wishing I could find the reference

No worries. That crater is HOT. Stay out of there whenever possible, unless you're trying to draw the enemy into it. I remember when Tourmaline came out and we saw the heat, a lot of people were like, huh? this is hotter than caustic?

[Unnatural Growth]

I just read SC's thread "5 days in the life of a noob", or whatever the title was.

I admit I had to laugh, mostly at myself, as I can identify with his general frustrations.

As a sidenote, I especially loved Strykewolf's post #9 about touching off an alpha strike in a 6 PPC Spider! That made me shoot milk out of my nose all over the screen. (thanks alot Strykewolf!) "My eyes!!!" LOL

Anyway, I have come to the shocking realization that I SUCK as a pilot. Lol, no seriously, I do. I can't hit ANYTHING, unless I'm either stopped or barely moving. Sigh. My mouse is all over the place when I'm trying to get on, or stay on an enemy mech for hits. I'm a horrible shot basically, and much to my utter dismay, I've also hit teamates with FF when we're all tangled up in a brawl. Mostly just in the last night's, and today's matches. This just mortifies me.

I hear folks talking about getting into the config files for mouse tweaks. Exactly "how" are you making the tweaks, and more importantly "what" are you able to fix? I've played with the mouse sensitivity settings in game, and "smoothing", but it doesn't seem to be helping much.

As another side note, is there a way to change the color of the targeting section of the HUD? When not locked, that yellow color blends in perfictly on at least half the maps with the background color of the terrain. Can it be changed, and if so, how?

Thanks again, from an embarrassed noob, AND my humblest appologies to any teamates that I've hosed over with FF. I'm truly sorry.

Edited by OldOrgandonor, 27 May 2013 - 09:14 AM.

[Ursus_Spiritus]

zraven7, on 23 May 2013 - 08:15 AM, said:

Streak-Cats do hit hard...

What about running 4 medium lasers instead of the default 3 small 3 medium? I know the 6 MLAS loadout can be a bit irritating to heat-manage sometimes, but 4 mediums offers almost the same damage along with uniform range. Binding 2 to each mouse button gives an easy alpha, and the ability to keep up pressure when you get near the top of your heat limit.

I run quad Med Lsrs on a few chassis and I can avg 300-400+ damage a round while maintaining a good speed/armor ratio and balance heat on the fly as well. No, I don't have long range or insta-kill (except maybe Spiders/Ravens) even still I can eat light mechs, hurt meds, **** off heavies and annoy assaults and if I am ignored (quite often by heavy/assaults) that is to their own misfortune.