69 replies to this topic

[Derek Icelord]

Supraluminal, on 07 June 2012 - 12:30 PM, said:

From the article you linked:


It's both, though the 'Mech-mounted version has a drastically shorter range and does less damage. However I very much doubt we'll see it in MWO, at least any time soon. I don't think it's ever been included in one of the main MW games (anyone who knows differently feel free to correct me).

I seem to recall that MechWarrior 4: Vengeance had Long Toms available in the late campaign.

[Roland]

Yep, the longtom was in MW4.

[Frostiken]

Every time I hear WoT mentioned on these forums, it's immediately followed by something describing how awful the game is

Roland, on 07 June 2012 - 01:30 PM, said:

Yep, the longtom was in MW4.

I wish we could all pretend that MW4 was like Aliens: Resurrection, and never happened

Edited by Frostiken, 07 June 2012 - 01:33 PM.

[Roland]

Hey, despite its flaws, MW4 was still a great game. And I'm not really sure if any of the prior mechwarrior titles could really be considered "better"... MW2 with it's crazy jump jets.. MW3 with its literally unplayable netcode and medium laser boats flying around. I mean, did you like those better?

Anyway, surely you didn't hate MW4 because of the Longtom... only like 1% of us ever even used it in a real fight.

And if not for MW4, then that means we wouldn't have had a mechwarrior title since 1999!

[GHQCommander]

Fortune, on 06 June 2012 - 09:52 PM, said:

Long Tom.

It fires in arc, has high splash damage. But only selected few assault mechs can carry it since it takes so much space and generates a LOT (and I mean a lot) of heat. And there was no bird's eye view.

Maybe commanders would be very suited to a Long Tom ?

Maybe scouts will get the information they need for accurate firing without being in the line of sight. Now that would be cool right ?

[CCC Dober]

Major Bill Curtis, on 07 June 2012 - 01:00 PM, said:

I do agree with you that certain situations will nullify fire-support.

I should add that by "fire-support," I'm referring to all long-range fire, direct and indirect, both "off-board artillery" and the LRM 5. My statement, while obviously offering an extreme position, was not intended to provide the "solution" to all situations; rather, it was purposed to generate a response of "yeah, sure, but here's an exception." Thanks for providing that It makes the conversation more interesting.

Was purely going off of past games, missiles and plink-weapons such as ultras. I don't know yet if Pulse Lasers count as well, but seeing how even standard lasers seem to work in recent videos, that may bring even more flavor to the game. Speaking of which, how about top-down Arrow IV strikes as they are described in the novels? A typical 'run-but-you-can't-hide' weapon that becomes extremely valuable when dealing with serious opposition. I'm thinking primarily in terms of Assault Mechs and Clan Omni Assault Mechs in particular.

Edited by CCC Dober, 07 June 2012 - 01:56 PM.

[Kobold]

Frostiken, on 07 June 2012 - 01:32 PM, said:

I wish we could all pretend that MW4 was like Aliens: Resurrection, and never happened

Why?

[Supraluminal]

Derek Icelord, on 07 June 2012 - 01:26 PM, said:

I seem to recall that MechWarrior 4: Vengeance had Long Toms available in the late campaign.

Huh, OK. It's been ages since I played it, so I guess I forgot. How did it even work in first-person mode? Were there special HUD/UI elements in place to help cope with its ballistic trajectory, or did you just have to find range by trial and error?

Regardless I wouldn't hold my breath for it showing up in MWO. It's pretty a niche item.

[CCC Dober]

@Kobold
I guess this was directed at the Thor running in my sig. Haters hate ...

Edited by CCC Dober, 07 June 2012 - 01:59 PM.

[GHQCommander]

I can see me going Command.

Pulse laser and Long Tom. Good heat sink mod. Stay well back and pick off weak targets plus spend plenty time commanding.

Ye bring it on.

[Major Bill Curtis]

CCC Dober, on 07 June 2012 - 01:48 PM, said:

Was purely going off of past games, missiles and plink-weapons such as ultras. I don't kow yet if Pulse Lasers count as well, but seeing how even standard lasers seem to work in recent videos, that may bring even more flavor to the game. Speaking of which, how about top-down Arrow IV strikes as they are described in the novels? A typical 'run-but-you-can't-hide' weapon that becomes extremely valuable when dealing with serious opposition. I'm thinking primarily in terms of Assault Mechs and Clan Omni Assault Mechs in particular.

I'm primarily a TT player, as generally the various MW titles have not really captured Battletech for me.

Apologies for diverging from the topic, everyone, but I too am very interested in how the pulse weapons will function: given their weight, heat, and range being much less optimized than standard lasers, I'm imagining less of a damage-over-time and more of a highly accurate close-in snap-shot weapon, which will keep them true to TT without being overpowered (IS pulse weapons not really being that great, when you boil it all down; Clan pulse weapons are a completely different story).

I wouldn't hold my breath for the Long Tom just because of MW4, however. The TT numbers paint the picture that this is a very poor experimental choice to rig into your 'mech.

20 tons, 15 crits, 20 damage, 20 heat, and 5 shots per ton of ammo does not a particularly good battlemech weapon make.

Edited by Major Bill Curtis, 07 June 2012 - 02:09 PM.

[Roland]

Supraluminal, on 07 June 2012 - 01:57 PM, said:

Huh, OK. It's been ages since I played it, so I guess I forgot. How did it even work in first-person mode? Were there special HUD/UI elements in place to help cope with its ballistic trajectory, or did you just have to find range by trial and error?

Regardless I wouldn't hold my breath for it showing up in MWO. It's pretty a niche item.

There was no special HUD assistance, you had to use the little HUD element that showed you how far your mech was tilted in order to judge range for shots. Something that made this extra difficult was that the tilt indicator was different for each mech, since they all had different max tilt angles.

Was one of the reasons why the Hunchback was the best Longtom mech, because tilting it all the way back would fire the longtom 1000m, with each notch down reducing the range by about 100m if I remember correctly.

The difficulty in use, coupled with the fact that in close combat you were generally going to be splashing yourself or friendlies with damage, definitely did make it a niche weapon. In certain situations though, it enabled some unique tactics.

[Fetladral]

I'm guessing that mech mounted arty (long tom, thumper and theres another) won't be in. They will be commander abilities instead but just speculation on my part.

In mekteks MW4 merc theres is a range indicator if you have a longtom on your mech and supposedly a time on target but i havn't seen that yet. And apparently the Vulture/Mad Dog actually has the best range because it can shoot a longtom 1300 meters because of how much it's torso twist. Might be the Vulture C (one that replaces missle launchers with ballistic hardpoints.)

Edited by Fetladral, 07 June 2012 - 02:10 PM.

[Major Bill Curtis]

I'll point out too (going on TT rules here), that the Long Tom cannon, when mounted on a 'mech, has a slightly shorter range than an LRM20; further, you can get 2 LRM20s for the same weight as a Long Tom, which will generate only 60% of the heat (both fired together), carry more ammo per ton, and take up 5 fewer criticals . . .

Edited by Major Bill Curtis, 07 June 2012 - 02:14 PM.

[Frostiken]

Major Bill Curtis, on 07 June 2012 - 02:14 PM, said:

I'll point out too (going on TT rules here), that the Long Tom cannon, when mounted on a 'mech, has a slightly shorter range than an LRM20

o_O

Everything I see describes just about all artillery weapons as being able to fire several mapsheets.

[Kobold]

Frostiken, on 07 June 2012 - 02:24 PM, said:

o_O

Everything I see describes just about all artillery weapons as being able to fire several mapsheets.

Mech-mounted artillery can usually be fired either indirectly (many map sheets) or directly (with a range of something like 8-18, I forget exactly).


As for Pulse Lasers, I expect them to also be DOT, but probably over a much shorter time.

[Major Bill Curtis]

Kobold, on 07 June 2012 - 02:27 PM, said:

Mech-mounted artillery can usually be fired either indirectly (many map sheets) or directly (with a range of something like 8-18, I forget exactly).


As for Pulse Lasers, I expect them to also be DOT, but probably over a much shorter time.

You're thinking of Long Toms not mounted on 'mechs, which have a range of 30 boards. 'Mech-mounted Arrow IV also has a long range of 8 boards. Long Tom on a 'mech has a range of 6/13/20, with a minimum range of 4 . . . so 600 meters, according to page 404 of Tactical Operations. This is again one of those confusing moments that distinguishes between artillery pieces and artillery cannons: only the cannons may be mounted on 'mechs and are used for "on-board indirect" fire

Edited by Major Bill Curtis, 07 June 2012 - 02:41 PM.

[Supraluminal]

Major Bill Curtis, on 07 June 2012 - 02:31 PM, said:

You're thinking of Long Toms not mounted on 'mechs, which have a range of 30 boards. Arrow IV also has a long range of 8 boards. Long Tom on a 'mech has a range of 6/13/20, with a minimum range of 4 . . . so 600 meters, according to page 404 of Tactical Operations. This is again one of those confusing moments that distinguishes between artillery pieces and artillery cannons: only the cannons may be mounted on 'mechs.

Sarna lists an "extreme range" of 26 hexes for the 'Mech version, for a total of 780, slightly better than LRMs. I'm not familiar enough with the TT rules to know how the extreme range stuff works, though.

Anyway, the basic point that it's not meant to be super-long-range holds. That, combined with its huge bulk and surprisingly high heat generation, makes it pretty unappealing to me.

[AWarrior]

TungstenWall, on 06 June 2012 - 09:42 PM, said:

I am a WoT player and from what I understand; this game will play almost the same, but with mechs and less “pay to win”.

I have never played a MW game before so I am unfamiliar with all the weapons in the game(s).

As a long range support mech (if there is one) I will be using attacks from far away, or from behind a mountain and use friendlies as my eyes on the battlefield to take out enemy targets from afar. While this sound good on paper, I have some worries about this.


4: Will long range players be able to use a bird's eye view like in WoT?

Thank you for any info you can give me

I really hope nothing you want to be as easy to own as artillery in WoT wil not be added.

especially NO birds eye.

i am fed enough by this crap ruined the good WoT game to garbage.

[DoomHunter27]

you could have a birds eye view but you would need a scout drone like from the trialer but I dont know when they are adding those