68 replies to this topic

[Jestun]

MasterErrant, on 23 May 2013 - 11:39 AM, said:

agasin you don't have to boat the weapon of the week to use it...I have 2 mechs with lrm 20s they had them before the patch and they'll have them after (unless the hotfixs makes them completely useledd.
LRMs are my favourite weapon in the game. the catapult my fav mech.

You think playing a couple of matches with the weapons that have been changed will provide enough data for them to make balancing decisions? The people who are going to test them need to test them for a proper amount of time in order to provide enough data for PGI to assess the difference.

You want to keep the same setup month after month and not test the changes they are making? Fine.

But don't try to stop other people from testing.

Edited by Jestun, 23 May 2013 - 11:42 AM.

[Lightfoot]

I thought everyone wanted support LRMs? Isn't that when the brawlers rush in with LRM support? That's all I see. 2 or 3 players, maybe 4 with LRMs and the rest moving in with direct fire.

I always wanted tactical LRMs where maybe you had an LRM15 or 20 and the rest lasers and AC or something. Tactical LRMs have to be fire and forget, not fly outrageously over hills, and do moderate damage. MWO's support LRMs require a special method of gameplay, which everyone calls camping, and so will always be boated because support LRMs take players out of normal gameplay by their functioning.

[MasterErrant]

Lightfoot, on 23 May 2013 - 11:48 AM, said:

I thought everyone wanted support LRMs? Isn't that when the brawlers rush in with LRM support? That's all I see. 2 or 3 players, maybe 4 with LRMs and the rest moving in with direct fire.

I always wanted tactical LRMs where maybe you had an LRM15 or 20 and the rest lasers and AC or something. Tactical LRMs have to be fire and forget, not fly outrageously over hills, and do moderate damage. MWO's support LRMs require a special method of gameplay, which everyone calls camping, and so will always be boated because support LRMs take players out of normal gameplay by their functioning.

sigh. this isn't about LRMs they are just the exploit of the week. it's about the way people choose to play the game.
thousands of people playing thousands of matches with balanced non exploitative weaponn builds will provide better data than exploiting the "buff of the week" it is aggretat data that the dev need.

I'm not spamming LRMs or PPCs or anoy other boated weapon sheesh read the post.


Jestun

the builds I have represent months of tweaking to find the pattern that I like.
as I add mechs I'll add builds.
oh nver mind closed minds

Edited by MasterErrant, 23 May 2013 - 12:29 PM.

[Chemie]

I am sorry OP but you are plain wrong. How is someone to know what your banned loadouts are? How does someone know what they are doing is legit versus exploiting PGI idiotic, useless, non-attempts at balancing?

You should play the game to win. Min/Max out your builds. If PGI chooses to do stupid things and break things, you either adapt or take a break until it is "fixed". So far with LRM, they have shown a complete inability to get it right (actually, it was right 3 patches ago but then they added the corkscrew mechanic, made several other changes, broke some things and it has been a joke since and was several other times in the past).

They made 4 buffs this patch, and apparently did not even test it...are you surprised by the outcome?

Edited by Chemie, 24 May 2013 - 03:16 AM.

[Lightfoot]

MasterErrant, on 23 May 2013 - 12:27 PM, said:

sigh. this isn't about LRMs they are just the exploit of the week. it's about the way people choose to play the game.
thousands of people playing thousands of matches with balanced non exploitative weaponn builds will provide better data than exploiting the "buff of the week" it is aggretat data that the dev need.

I'm not spamming LRMs or PPCs or anoy other boated weapon sheesh read the post.


Jestun

the builds I have represent months of tweaking to find the pattern that I like.
as I add mechs I'll add builds.
oh nver mind closed minds

I addressed your point. Just saying players who use LRMs are just boating them because that was how they were designed. They were not designed as tactical weapons like a PPC or Gauss Rifle. They were designed as support weapons that can't be used tactically. At the time I said you will end up with a weapon that is either too weak or too strong and will be boated.

Anyway, players are not rushing out to exploit LRMs. They are using them as intended. Long range support. They can't be mixed with brawling weapons, they would need to be TACTICAL LRMs for that. No one wanted Tactical LRMs they wanted Support LRMs, so LRMs are boated and players camp with them because they are excluded from normal gameplay by them.

I read your post, but players are not rushing out to boat an exploit weapon. They are just using LRMs as they were designed to be used. It's inherent that LRMs will be boated. To change it LRMs need to be a tactical weapon. Fire and Forget, faster, LoS and LRMs are usable with other weapons.

[Tombstoner]

I understand what your getting at OP. i saw what was happening to lrms in my first 2 games. did i jump on the band wagon and join the exploit thinking that i was using the best weapons in the game.... nope got in my 4 x mg spider... grit my teeth and started hunting lrm boats at point blank range.... all the while taging for MY sides uncreative LRM boats.

[jeffsw6]

Jestun, on 23 May 2013 - 11:21 AM, said:

Assuming the devs balance based on metrics rather than the level of whining, playing an unbalanced setup is more likely to get PGI to make a balance change as it will make a difference to the metrics.

If they balanced based on telemetry / data / metrics then it would not have taken 5 months and 6000+ posts about Machine Guns for them to be adjusted. They still need more adjustment.

[ProtoformX]

MasterErrant, on 23 May 2013 - 11:12 AM, said:

just that. a shallow
excuse.

An excuse? Nope, it's a big 'f*** you' to you forcing your opinion of fun on me. I enjoy using the most a OP weapons and mechs. Get over it Debbie Downer. I don't come down on you for using 'different' inferior builds, so go keep it to yourself.

[MasterErrant]

Lightfoot, on 23 May 2013 - 11:48 AM, said:

I thought everyone wanted support LRMs? Isn't that when the brawlers rush in with LRM support? That's all I see. 2 or 3 players, maybe 4 with LRMs and the rest moving in with direct fire.

I always wanted tactical LRMs where maybe you had an LRM15 or 20 and the rest lasers and AC or something. Tactical LRMs have to be fire and forget, not fly outrageously over hills, and do moderate damage. MWO's support LRMs require a special method of gameplay, which everyone calls camping, and so will always be boated because support LRMs take players out of normal gameplay by their functioning.

"who packs his mech full of LRMs when they are messed up. it's the"
ths is wht I said. No where does it say don't play lrms not where do I say don't boat.
A week ago lrms were just another weapon yesterday there were entire teams of lrm uberboats. trying to improve their score by exploiting the error.
Get your heads out of your collective A**es and rep thye F***ing posts.

LRMs are merly the example for today.

[Renthrak]

I have to go with the OP on this one.

This isn't life-or-death. You don't lose a limb if your 'Mech explodes. Hell, it's not even a finished game where we're fighting over territory or something. It's a test build of a game. While there is some benefit for finding problem builds so that they can be corrected, that simply isn't what happens.

"Hey guys, <insert FOTM weapon here> is messed up and owning everything, let's all start using it!" It doesn't matter if it's SSRMs, LRMs, PPCs, Gauss Rifles, UAC/5s, or whatever else is unbalanced at the time. Suddenly, every team has a couple, and every third match has an entire team built around it. As long as there is a broken weapon, it's time to start trolling. I mean, what's more important, other people enjoying the game or having some lulz when you destroy someone and they rage quit?

Every time I see someone make one of those "If the rules don't specifically ban it, anything is fair, so shut up while I own you" posts, my value for human life drops just a little bit more. We would probably have twice the player population if we could somehow purge those "Whatever's fun for me, and screw all of you" vermin from the game.

They always come back with "What's wrong with doing what it takes to win?" or some crap like that. What it comes down to is, how far are you willing to go? If there was a button that made your target overheat instantly, would you use it? How about an insta-kill command? What about a bug that makes a player's PC burn out if you bump into their 'Mech just right? How much grief is it OK to inflict on everyone else playing a game to get your bit of fun? It's exactly the same thing, only differing in severity.

And while I'm writing this, someone else makes another one of those posts. "I get off when they cry, so bend over and take it." I guess with 7 billion people on the planet, now and then we're bound to run into steaming piles of garbage where a personality should be.

[Jestun]

I do get sick of people projecting their morality onto others.

Now we should all only use builds approved by certain people during a beta test? How exactly will the remainder be tested? How will the actual impact (which requires more than 2-3 matches to assess) be found out?

Should PGI just take balance threads at face value and ignore the metrics? If so we would have wild balance changes as people disagree with each other on balance constantly. Although, that does seem to be what we have now too...

[Accursed Richards]

Renthrak, on 23 May 2013 - 01:17 PM, said:

They always come back with "What's wrong with doing what it takes to win?" or some crap like that. What it comes down to is, how far are you willing to go? If there was a button that made your target overheat instantly, would you use it? How about an insta-kill command? What about a bug that makes a player's PC burn out if you bump into their 'Mech just right?

Of course they would. And they'd be on the forums putting their wins down to SKILL and declaring anyone who thinks those items are overpowered just needs to lrn2play n00b.

Me, I don't use FOTM builds, I find them a bit boring. And yes, I do roll my eyes when I have to stop playing the game because the other team is spamming the broken weapon of the week. But I can't blame others for doing so. If the system was balanced there wouldn't have to be this rollercoaster and nobody would feel they had a stark choice to either flock to the FOTM or lose to those who do.

I'm more frustrated at the developers who apparently couldn't leave the path in the oven for just one more day to fix the LRM bug.

[FerrolupisXIII]

What about those of us who have always used LRM's? are we the scum of the earth as well? i certainly didn't jump on the band wagon, heck im one of the horses pulling it.

i've ALWAYS loved LRM's. they're just my style. Soon as i got closed beta access, and my Elite Founders, i chose the founders CPLT-C1. this was back in the closed beta days when people literally laughed when they saw an LRM catapult. awesome's weren't even out yet. my group would play matches against another friendly clan, and they would be surprised when we brought 1-2 LRM catapults. and the catapults would clean up the mechs that thought they were safe from the brawl (that was the meta then. brawlwarrior Online.)

then we got upgrades to our LRM's but with R&R costs people rarely used them. guess what? i still did. ECM came out and everyone stopped using them. i still did. obviously i was very amused during the First LRM Apocalypse. as, well, its my thing.

but then came the Nerf Hammer. LRM's have been pretty awful for months now. doing next to no damage and requiring ~150 missiles to deal 100 damage, across an entire mech. (hint: they tickled. i was lucky to pull a kill in a match.) and they couldn't hit lights or most mediums because the tracking sucked. most players saw an LRM boat on their team and cried in chat saying what a detriment to the team i was.

And now, when they've only broken some minor things, that they have already said they are going to fix in the next patch, you come by on your high horse and tell me what an awful band wagoning exploiter i am? that we should play the game as you tell us to, in your infinite wisdom?

i AM playing the game the way i like to. and i always have.

if it makes you feel even slightly better, i think cramming 60+ LRM's into any mech is a pretty stupid idea. you're going to run hot, slow, and have less armor, or little to no backup weapons. its stupid, and frequently gets you killed. i much prefer my fast catapult builds, or my all rounder stalkers.

[MasterErrant]

FerrolupisXIII ET-AL as do I it's not about the LRMs it's about the attitude support the exploitation of broken rules and the attitude that goes with it.


Jestun

you post answers itself. you very attitude is what is wrong.
another petty excuse to justify sad behaviour.
Perhaps you should sometime look up the definitions of morality and ethics.
I rarely comment on morality. certainly havn't this time.

Edited by MasterErrant, 23 May 2013 - 02:08 PM.

[Renthrak]

FerrolupisXIII, on 23 May 2013 - 01:49 PM, said:

i AM playing the game the way i like to. and i always have.

if it makes you feel even slightly better, i think cramming 60+ LRM's into any mech is a pretty stupid idea. you're going to run hot, slow, and have less armor, or little to no backup weapons. its stupid, and frequently gets you killed. i much prefer my fast catapult builds, or my all rounder stalkers.

There's no need to worry, your thoughtful post has already demonstrated that you do not fall into the category of players that are a problem.

[FerrolupisXIII]

Renthrak, on 23 May 2013 - 04:29 PM, said:

There's no need to worry, your thoughtful post has already demonstrated that you do not fall into the category of players that are a problem.

much appreciated. it does get aggravating when people tell me what a noob i am when i've been playing at least as long as a lot of players. i happily admit im a horrible shot, my max FPS is about 15, and that is certainly not when someone is actively shooting me. but im far from a noob!

[Zarlaren]

Getting sick of getting a faceful of lrms last match took like about 10 volleys of lrm 20's in a row this needs to stop and Ams can only do so much and taking cover behind a rock or wall doesn't work as now it seems to go through them.

Please buff the AMS to 12v12 combat and not for 8v8 as it is balanced for now. If you got 5 lrm boats doing lrm 40 that is 200 lrms a single AMS has to protect you it isn't going work. And if the whole team is lrm boats then that is like a lrm 480. So 480 lrms to the face. I say reduce lrm range to 500 instead of 1000. This is junk for people who want to brawl for sport.

[yashmack]

LRM boats are a part of battletech lore... they usually have at least some small lasers but there is nothing wrong with LRM boats. find cover, dont stay out in the open, make the LRM boat a primary target...
use some strategy and take em out, dont come here complaining...

[Zarlaren]

yashmack, on 23 August 2013 - 07:01 PM, said:

LRM boats are a part of battletech lore... they usually have at least some small lasers but there is nothing wrong with LRM boats. find cover, dont stay out in the open, make the LRM boat a primary target...
use some strategy and take em out, dont come here complaining...

As I said the lrms can go through the cover some kind of glitch I hid behind a metal plate in TD and the lrms went right through it. I understand lrms is part of lore but come on people want to fight fair fights or for sport and firing 200 lrms for a instant kill not very sportsmens like.

[James The Fox Dixon]

MasterErrant, on 23 May 2013 - 11:01 AM, said:

the problem with the game is not broken weapons it's not the broken heat system. it's not the ludicrous convergence system that allow precision targeting beyoine the effective range of the weapons in the game...though these are issues.

It is players who rush to exploit every flaw, every and error the Devs make.
it's the ****** who packs his mech full of LRMs when they are messed up. it's the **** who runs his fast mech around trying to pick of components to improve his stats while his team loses.

What about the Catapult A1 and C1? Those are canon lrm boats. My own A1 sports 6 lrm 5s used in chainfire mode. I am extremely mobile since that is what the Catapult is designed for as they can take a 300 Engine to go 82.2 kph with Speed Tweak. What keeps lrms from being overpowered are the following: AMS, terrain blocking LOS, ECM, requiring a spotter, and a 180 meter minimum range.

In the BT universe most Mech companies have a lance of dedicated close range fire support.