85 replies to this topic

[MuKen]

blinkin, on 25 May 2013 - 07:42 PM, said:

i was focusing fairly strictly on passive sonar since active sonar has it's own set of rules and does deal with interference issues. and also since passive sonar is basically how a system like this would have to work. i generally only mentioned active sonar for clarification and comparison.

I focused on active sonar because of the "comparison" aspect of that. Your bat example of how crazy accurate sonar is was active sonar. Passive sonar is nowhere near as good at finding a specific origin point.

Quote

i see the image you posted, but the fact that stellar parallax works,

Discussing locating things by vision isn't relevant, pinpointing the direction light is coming from can be done far more accurately than vibration. You can create a sensor that doesn't even detect light unless it is coming from a specific direction. This allows for very accurate direction measurements. You can't do the same with vibrations, and that limits how accurately you determine origin direction.

Quote

1. direction the tremor came from because motion always radiates from the source

this is a single sensor with a single free weight. this can be as simple as a pendulum hanging over sand and it will still give both of those pieces of information.

A pendulum isn't a zero-size point. That means a single origin point will impact the pendulum using multiple vectors in multiple places. Your example assumes that the vibration is propagating in every direction with equal speed, so therefore the pendulum will be initially hit from the position that is between it and the origin first and accurately move away from the origin. But, if the vibration is not propagating the same speed in every direction, the direction slightly to the side may hit the pendulum first, causing it to move at a slightly different angle. This is why the directional detection cannot be perfectly accurate if the medium is not consistent.

Edited by MuKen, 26 May 2013 - 09:00 PM.

[BlightFang]

Soy, on 23 May 2013 - 03:24 PM, said:

HOW DOES SEISMIC WORK WHEN YOU ARE IN THE MIDDLE OF JUMP JETTING AND COMPLETELY OFF THE GROUND.

The device is actually an earthworm manufacturing and modification device that produces an infinite amount of earthworms, implants them with com system and fires them at the ground at regular intervals. The earthworms then burrow and when "the vibration waves pass through them", they radio to you the location of the enemy mechs.

[blinkin]

MuKen, on 26 May 2013 - 06:42 PM, said:

I focused on active sonar because of the "comparison" aspect of that. Your bat example of how crazy accurate sonar is was active sonar. Passive sonar is nowhere near as good at finding a specific origin point.

and i later explained how useless and unnecessary that example was.

Discussing locating things by vision isn't relevant, pinpointing the direction light is coming from can be done far more accurately than vibration. You can create a sensor that doesn't even detect light unless it is coming from a specific direction. This allows for very accurate direction measurements. You can't do the same with vibrations, and that limits how accurately you determine origin direction.

waves traveling through a medium generally act the same. EM waves deal with different flavors of interference, but the principle doesn't really change.

A pendulum isn't a zero-size point. That means a single origin point will impact the pendulum using multiple vectors in multiple places. Your example assumes that the vibration is propagating in every direction with equal speed, so therefore the pendulum will be initially hit from the position that is between it and the origin first and accurately move away from the origin. But, if the vibration is not propagating the same speed in every direction, the direction slightly to the side may hit the pendulum first, causing it to move at a slightly different angle. This is why the directional detection cannot be perfectly accurate if the medium is not consistent.

i don't deny the possibility of that happening, BUT for that to happen the wave would have to go out in a direction that is at some sort of angle from the sensor. any wave going at an angle is going to approach more slowly than one going directly toward the sensor (as long as all things are equal). the wave that is taking a non-direct path would have to go away from the sensor AND then find a medium that will increase it's speed enough to overtake the wave that is going in a straight line.

so the wave needs to take an indirect route AND accelerate fast enough to pass the wave that is going in a straight line. the wave would be covering a longer distance in a shorter time.

this is why i have been assuming directionality as a reliable constant. if this weren't reliable we would see weird echoes of stars in the sky all of the time because of gravitational lensing effects.

Edited by blinkin, 26 May 2013 - 10:04 PM.

[Sephlock]

Protip: You have IFF that lets you know where your teammates are at all times. If the sensor detects a mech and there is no teammate there.... yeah .

[MuKen]

Sorry, was away from forums for a bit while I got settled into a new area for the summer. Blinkin, could you fix the quotes in your post? Forum won't let me quote you the way it is formatted right now.

[Thundercles]

This is really just a somewhat over-generous application of existing tech and principles. In a world of super-mega-treehuggingly-safe fusion reactors and FTL communications/travel, THIS is the nit we choose to pick?


This, with appropriate measures of BT handwavium sprinkled in to flavor.

Edited by Thundercles, 30 May 2013 - 12:01 PM.