262 replies to this topic

[MustrumRidcully]

Sayuu, on 06 June 2013 - 09:23 PM, said:

"Yo, Mechwarrior. I’m really happy for you; I’mma let you finish. But Duke Nukem Forever is one of the best games of all time! One of the best games of all time!"

I am sure PGI would approve of that.

[Magicbullet141]

Talk about a huge overrating.

[SiDheBRX]

We have a saying in Germany: perhaps some "can't see the forest anymore because of all the trees".

Meaning, perhaps some of us are so deep up in complaint mode that neither what MWO has already achieved, nor it's potential, nor the fact that recent patches have brought massive improvements are appreciated.

Perhaps gaming mag testers have a different view on the matter.

I don't know whether it was posted here, but the main German gaming mag Gamestar published a review about 3 weeks ago. Yes, that's right, in the middle of the poptart-alpha-fest.

http://www.gamestar....75,3012313.html

85/100. About the same score they gave to CoD Black Ops.

Essentially, the tester complained about the stiff learning curve. Pretty much anything else got good - very good grades.

Oh, and let's keep in mind: MWO is bringing us a new Mechwarrior PC game. Which in itself is awesome.

[M0rpHeu5]

The guys who makes a top FPS list without Goldeneye 64 and Halo is not to be trasted. Stll i like to see MWO getting some attention and good press.

[FerretGR]

Greyfyl, on 04 June 2013 - 08:20 AM, said:

I'm surprised this statement didn't cause the universe to collapse on itself.

You don't know of any artists producing conscious hip hop, so it can't exist. Argumentum ad ignorantiam.

Greyfyl, on 04 June 2013 - 03:40 PM, said:

If you are looking towards hip-hop to find your 'culture' .....well, I honestly don't even know how to respond.

Because you don't have a response that doesn't have you parading your ignorance around the forums like a gigantic peacock?

Here's an academic piece that starts with a good discussion of hip hop: http://www.asjournal.org/179.html. There's plenty more to be found if you're interested.

From the article: "Today, every U.S. city of scale can claim a number of hip-hop oriented youth agencies (something that is also increasingly true on a global scale with youth advocacy initiatives and teen agencies emerging in cities such as London, Paris, Frankfurt, and Rio de Janeiro). Hip-hop oriented youth agencies and those who work for them are engaged in what I call “hood work,” a term that enunciates and amplifies the locale of the urban ‘hood that is also the locus of authenticity and value in hip-hop culture (Forman, 2002).

The primary mission among ‘hood workers is to educate youth about their life options and about positive, pro-social attitudes and behaviors. These include: peaceful conflict resolution and an anti-gang stance; improved relations with law enforcement officers leading to the rejection of racial profiling practices and reduced incidents of police brutality; self-advocacy pertaining to school and education reform, criminal justice reform, and employment initiatives; teaching safer sex practices and teen pregnancy education; voter registration and political awareness; and a range of other public health issues that impact the lives of young urban citizens of all racial and ethnic backgrounds and their communities. ‘Hood workers comprise an intervening force; the youth agencies directly engage urban youth, drawing them from negative and potentially deadly options including gang membership and street criminality and providing safe spaces where they can learn hip-hop skills and arts as well as developing political and community organizing abilities and community responsibilities that can positively impact themselves and others."

Sounds like a positive culture to me.

Edited by FerretGR, 11 June 2013 - 05:47 AM.

[Greyfyl]

FerretGR, on 11 June 2013 - 05:44 AM, said:

You don't know of any artists producing conscious hip hop, so it can't exist. Argumentum ad ignorantiam.



Because you don't have a response that doesn't have you parading your ignorance around the forums like a gigantic peacock?

Here's an academic piece that starts with a good discussion of hip hop: http://www.asjournal.org/179.html. There's plenty more to be found if you're interested.

From the article: "Today, every U.S. city of scale can claim a number of hip-hop oriented youth agencies (something that is also increasingly true on a global scale with youth advocacy initiatives and teen agencies emerging in cities such as London, Paris, Frankfurt, and Rio de Janeiro). Hip-hop oriented youth agencies and those who work for them are engaged in what I call “hood work,” a term that enunciates and amplifies the locale of the urban ‘hood that is also the locus of authenticity and value in hip-hop culture (Forman, 2002).

The primary mission among ‘hood workers is to educate youth about their life options and about positive, pro-social attitudes and behaviors. These include: peaceful conflict resolution and an anti-gang stance; improved relations with law enforcement officers leading to the rejection of racial profiling practices and reduced incidents of police brutality; self-advocacy pertaining to school and education reform, criminal justice reform, and employment initiatives; teaching safer sex practices and teen pregnancy education; voter registration and political awareness; and a range of other public health issues that impact the lives of young urban citizens of all racial and ethnic backgrounds and their communities. ‘Hood workers comprise an intervening force; the youth agencies directly engage urban youth, drawing them from negative and potentially deadly options including gang membership and street criminality and providing safe spaces where they can learn hip-hop skills and arts as well as developing political and community organizing abilities and community responsibilities that can positively impact themselves and others."

Sounds like a positive culture to me.

Hmm...you sure are determined to prove that hip-hop has a positive effect on the universe. The positive culture you just posted about seems to have very little to do with the music itself, but mostly about teaching inner city kids a value system that most of middle class America has been following for decades.

The only tie I see to hip-hop is that the funding is coming from artists who made large amounts of money performing that type of music. That in itself is something certainly that should be applauded, but you really need to stop with saying that hip-hop music in itself is providing positive culture. That's like saying Poison was really deep if you just listen more closely to the lyrics.

Edited by Greyfyl, 11 June 2013 - 08:27 AM.

[FerretGR]

Greyfyl, on 11 June 2013 - 08:26 AM, said:

Hmm...you sure are determined to prove that hip-hop has a positive effect on the universe.

I'm just one of those people who feels compelled to speak up when people are spewing ignorance. I'm obsessed with music of all kinds, as well, so this is a bit of a pet issue for me.

Greyfyl, on 11 June 2013 - 08:26 AM, said:

The positive culture you just posted about seems to have very little to do with the music itself, but mostly about teaching inner city kids a value system that most of middle class America has been following for decades.

And there it is, the ignorance. Hip hop isn't just music, hip hop is culture, it consists of 5 pillars, music is only one of them. KRS-One says "rap is something you do and hip-hop is something you live." Seriously, this stuff is covered in that paper I posted too; worth a read methinks.

Greyfyl, on 11 June 2013 - 08:26 AM, said:

The only tie I see to hip-hop is that the funding is coming from artists who made large amounts of money performing that type of music. That in itself is something certainly that should be applauded, but you really need to stop with saying that hip-hop music in itself is providing positive culture. That's like saying Poison was really deep if you just listen more closely to the lyrics.

I don't know why you assume that the funding for projects like those mentioned in the quote comes from rappers. It comes from the community and from members of that community.

I'm not saying that the music is "providing a positive culture." Hip hop IS a culture. Like all cultures, there are positive sides and negative sides. These projects are a part of the positive side of that culture.

But even if I was making that claim, it'd be accurate. Your comparison doesn't work. If there was another hair metal band out there that wrote songs about political action, responsible behavior, improving one's life, etc., we could say that there is "positive hair metal," despite the fact that Poison were not "positive hair metal." The same is the case for hip hop. The entire genre can't be dismissed because of a single act.

I can only assume, aside from your ignorance of what hip hop actually is, that the problem here is that you're convinced that all hip hop is the intellectual equivalent of Poison, which is why you trot out that comparison. I understand this, to a certain extent: mainstream hip hop can be pretty negative, and this is likely all of the hip hop you've been exposed to. Mainstream hip hop often IS the equivalent of Poison. But to be fair, mainstream music in general is shallow, stupid, and insulting. Once we examine a little more closely, we'll find that there's plenty of positive (or at least socially conscious) hip hop out there, which is why the universe didn't implode when I first said as much.

Even the mainstream has positive/conscious hip hop though:





(I can't get the videos to come up for the first two; they're Nas - I Can, and Common - The Light)

So yes, you do need to listen more closely to the lyrics, but it's got to be the lyrics of someone other than Lil Wayne or 50 Cent. Guess I don't have to stop claiming that hip hop music can produce a positive culture given that.

The bottom line is that you don't know anything about hip hop other than the surface understanding you get from the mainstream media. You're displaying stereotypes, a clear symptom of ignorance.

ETA: I understand if you just don't like hip hop. That's opinion and it's personal taste. It'd be a boring world if we all liked the same thing. What I'm taking issue with is the claim that it's 100% negative, or that there's a negative or no culture associated with it.

Edited by FerretGR, 11 June 2013 - 01:06 PM.

[Enigmos]

If you are posting in this forum then it is clear that you are a supporter MW:O. Whether you are building yourself up by expressing such disdain on the game or not... bottom line is you are still posting here.

[Lonestar1771]

What, no twisted metal or jumping flash!?!?

[Vehement]

What would you say if a few months back I put all over the web an advertisement in a magazine I publish. Assume that I am a well known distributor of information on one of your favorite things, whether it was video games, por... errr video games. Anyway, let's say that I advertise a special deal in a magazine I write., a buddy of mine will give you access to a new game, and will give you a secret code which you can redeem through his game company to get items that aren't available to ANYONE else except those who purchase a magazine from me. Let's say this deal goes beautifully well, people are happy about getting unique items and reading my magazine. Some may not be happy with a particular item or two that my buddy gave away as items. But still, everyone who took advantage of the deal had a great time and enjoyed the offer. I leave this advertisement for a few months, but the deal with my buddy is still good and valid. People buy a magazine and I give them a website where they can input information about the magazine they received as proof of their purchase and then my buddy gives them this "code" that they can redeem. I do NOT list any expiration date, I do not indicate any time limits or even imply that it is a limited offer. As far as I know, as long as people buy THAT particular issue of my magazine, they get the code and get in-game unique items! Let's say my buddy then decides without telling anyone, "ya know what? I think I'm going to stop giving out free items that I promised I would for every issue of that magazine sold." "I don't care if people get upset that I am no longer keeping up my end of the bargain. It's not my fault that the magazine is still available. I just don't feel like doing what I said what I would do anymore." What is additionally frustrating about this situation is that the cost to my buddy for giving away these free items is absolutely nothing! I promote his game in my magazine, he agrees to offer a couple of unique special items for every issue of that magazine which is sold.Until he decides, "meh.... that's enough, I don't feel like honoring my arrangement anymore and I'm not even going to let the public know that I have stopped honoring my deal. Ohh but when people send me emails about why did I stop giving away the things I promised I would, I will point my finger at that evil magazine guy and blame him! YES, that's it! It's his fault for..... not knowing that I stopped giving away items that I said I would, and ... ummm.... for ummmm, oh yea for still making available online copies of magazines that are still promoting my game. how dare them!" "People have posted how cool the items are that I was giving away, but I still get these odd requests for items I used to give away. Oh well, it's some nice posts, I won't remove them or indicate that the offer is no longer valid. I'll just let the people who foolishly still play that I don't care what a magazine said, I'm not giving them a damn thing." NOTHING. Now replace "buddy" with letters of a company that would spell PIG if arranged properly.

Edited by Vehement, 12 June 2013 - 12:01 PM.

[Sephlock]

Vehement, on 12 June 2013 - 11:57 AM, said:

What would you say if a few months back I put all over the web an advertisement in a magazine I publish. Assume that I am a well known distributor of information on one of your favorite things, whether it was video games, por... errr video games. Anyway, let's say that I advertise a special deal in a magazine I write., a buddy of mine will give you access to a new game, and will give you a secret code which you can redeem through his game company to get items that aren't available to ANYONE else except those who purchase a magazine from me. Let's say this deal goes beautifully well, people are happy about getting unique items and reading my magazine. Some may not be happy with a particular item or two that my buddy gave away as items. But still, everyone who took advantage of the deal had a great time and enjoyed the offer. I leave this advertisement for a few months, but the deal with my buddy is still good and valid. People buy a magazine and I give them a website where they can input information about the magazine they received as proof of their purchase and then my buddy gives them this "code" that they can redeem. I do NOT list any expiration date, I do not indicate any time limits or even imply that it is a limited offer. As far as I know, as long as people buy THAT particular issue of my magazine, they get the code and get in-game unique items! Let's say my buddy then decides without telling anyone, "ya know what? I think I'm going to stop giving out free items that I promised I would for every issue of that magazine sold." "I don't care if people get upset that I am no longer keeping up my end of the bargain. It's not my fault that the magazine is still available. I just don't feel like doing what I said what I would do anymore." What is additionally frustrating about this situation is that the cost to my buddy for giving away these free items is absolutely nothing! I promote his game in my magazine, he agrees to offer a couple of unique special items for every issue of that magazine which is sold.Until he decides, "meh.... that's enough, I don't feel like honoring my arrangement anymore and I'm not even going to let the public know that I have stopped honoring my deal. Ohh but when people send me emails about why did I stop giving away the things I promised I would, I will point my finger at that evil magazine guy and blame him! YES, that's it! It's his fault for..... not knowing that I stopped giving away items that I said I would, and ... ummm.... for ummmm, oh yea for still making available online copies of magazines that are still promoting my game. how dare them!" "People have posted how cool the items are that I was giving away, but I still get these odd requests for items I used to give away. Oh well, it's some nice posts, I won't remove them or indicate that the offer is no longer valid. I'll just let the people who foolishly still play that I don't care what a magazine said, I'm not giving them a damn thing." NOTHING. Now replace "buddy" with letters of a company that would spell PIG if arranged properly.

Oh I see. This is about the special skin?

[Vehement]

$9.00 is an insane price to pay for a magazine anyway, but a magazine that is about last years games? Someone must really want the MWO items. And that someone was deceived and then dismissed... Why has customer support lost focus on what it's supposed to be.... support for the customer. Why does this support seem more like a false floor. It appears to be there, looks solid but when you need it to be there.......

Edited by Vehement, 12 June 2013 - 03:31 PM.

[Vehement]

I fail to see any mention that it is a limited time offer, that it is only good until a certain date, that it will be discontinued at a later date regardless of whether or not the magazine is still sold under the same pretense.http://i1301.photobucket.com/albums/ag115/Therealvehement/PCGamer1a_zps69863bab.jpg 

Edited by Vehement, 12 June 2013 - 03:37 PM.

[Sephlock]

There was a brief window of time in which you could get 1 issue for free, and another immediately after that ended where you could subscribe, get that one issue, and cancel without paying a penny.

[Capt Cole 117]

Thontor, on 23 May 2013 - 04:59 PM, said:

always good to see MWO get good press.

The complete list:

1. Team Fortress 2
2. Half-Life 2
3. PlanetSide 2
4. Quake III
5. Borderlands 2
6. S.T.A.L.K.E.R.: Call of Pripyat
7. Doom
8. Tribes: Ascend
9. Battlefield 1942
10. Counter-Strike: Global Offensive
11. Left 4 Dead 2
12. Battlefield 3
13. Counter-Strike
14. Far Cry 3
15. Natural Selection 2
16. Arma 2: Combined Operations
17. F.E.A.R.
18. Max Payne 3
19. MechWarrior Online
20. Red Orchestra 2: Heroes of Stalingrad
21. BioShock
22. Unreal Tournament
23. SWAT 4
24. Wolfenstein
25. No One Lives Forever

This looks like a list of the most populer shooters of today.

[Greyfyl]

FerretGR, on 11 June 2013 - 10:15 AM, said:

The bottom line is that you don't know anything about hip hop other than the surface understanding you get from the mainstream media. You're displaying stereotypes, a clear symptom of ignorance.

ETA: I understand if you just don't like hip hop. That's opinion and it's personal taste. It'd be a boring world if we all liked the same thing. What I'm taking issue with is the claim that it's 100% negative, or that there's a negative or no culture associated with it.

Am I ignorant about the intricate details of the hip-hop community? Yes, I am. What I have seen on the surface would absolutely in no way give me any reason to want to explore it any further.

There are no absolutes in life, very few things are black and white so to speak. I am sure there are hip-hop artists out there that spread a positive message and as you have shown, are helping to move forward inner city communities that are well past needing a huge amount of repair. But you can't honestly expect to come into an internet forum and say that hip-hop provides a positive cultural influence as a general blanket statement and expect people to agree with you.

I think we should just agree to disagree, from my point of view any positive impact at this point is just a raindrop in the ocean compared to the huge negatives that have spawned from this 'culture'.

[Shumabot]

Quote

I think we should just agree to disagree, from my point of view any positive impact at this point is just a raindrop in the ocean compared to the huge negatives that have spawned from this 'culture'.

I think your biggest problem is that you're conflating a musical genre with a subculture that broadly enjoys it. You're presuming a transitive when there's a vague corollary at best. Becks Odelay is a hip hop album, beck is a scientologist white dude who raps about getting ice cream while saying hi to his neighbors on the street. Hip hop and rap is not the black subculture of gangster attitudes and petty crime you're stereotyping it as anymore than country is the white subculture of racism and inbred nationalism it's commonly stereotyped as. It's a musical tradition, not a group of people, and you sound pretty stupid conflating them as one and the same for the purpose of justifying your own ignorance.

Also, Ferret..

Quote

I'm not saying that the music is "providing a positive culture." Hip hop IS a culture. Like all cultures, there are positive sides and negative sides. These projects are a part of the positive side of that culture.

No, Hip Hop is not a culture. Hip hop is a broad category of musical influences which are commonly co opted into urban subculture norms and which reciprocate those norms by placing them at the focal points of its own output. If Hip Hop is a culture so is EDM, Western, and any other broad spectrum of artistic output. Hip Hop is commonly self promoting in how it's advertised and created and tends to act exclusionary due to the focal points of its music, but it's hardly a culture. There are tens of thousands of music, fashion, and political entities that identify as functioning under the umbrella of hip hop influence, and they espouse just as many wildly divergent viewpoints, traditions, fashions, and everything else that makes a culture homogeneous. Without homogeneity you don't have a "culture" and hip hop clearly lacks it.

Edited by Shumabot, 13 June 2013 - 09:30 AM.

[Gaan Cathal]

Greyfyl, on 11 June 2013 - 08:26 AM, said:

Hmm...you sure are determined to prove that hip-hop has a positive effect on the universe. The positive culture you just posted about seems to have very little to do with the music itself, but mostly about teaching inner city kids a value system that most of middle class America has been following for decades.

What? Casual racism combined with a mind-numbing mass paranoia that justifies any degree of violence or atrocity as long as you don't get your own hands dirty?

[Greyfyl]

Gaan Cathal, on 14 June 2013 - 02:15 AM, said:

[/size]

What? Casual racism combined with a mind-numbing mass paranoia that justifies any degree of violence or atrocity as long as you don't get your own hands dirty?

Wow...just wow. So I'm ignorant for assuming that hip-hop is not a positive cultural influence, but yet it's ok for you to assume that all middle class white people practice casual racism? I hope that is not what you are implying, because quite honestly that's about as racist a statement as you can make. Funny how that works. Reverse racism by minorities is perfectly fine.

I think we just need to stop here, this can't possibly go in a positive path.

[Gaan Cathal]

Greyfyl, on 14 June 2013 - 07:54 AM, said:

Wow...just wow. So I'm ignorant for assuming that hip-hop is not a positive cultural influence, but yet it's ok for you to assume that all middle class white people practice casual racism? I hope that is not what you are implying, because quite honestly that's about as racist a statement as you can make. Funny how that works. Reverse racism by minorities is perfectly fine

*cough* I'm white, mate.

It's a fairly widespread opinion of the white american middle class, generally borne out by evidence. If someone from a traditionally racist background says they took one look at a traditionally black subculture and went "That looks different. I will condemn it without further investigation!" then yeah, folks are going to assume they're racist.