436 replies to this topic

[Dude42]

Maelas, on 24 May 2013 - 01:56 PM, said:

Every single time i died to LRM fire, i was CT cored, every....single.....time.

LOL. How would you have preferred to die to LRMs? head blown off? "OMGZZZ MISSILES HIT THE COCKPIT ONLY OPOPOP!" would have been the result. Both legs blown off? "THE MISSILES THEY BLEW OFF BOTH MY LEGS, DAMAGE IS GOING TO LEGS ONLY, HELP!!" I can hear it now.

Considering there are only 3 ways to be killed(Destroyed head, CT, or both legs) and out of the available options the CT is largest target, what the hell did you expect?? To die from having your left arm blown off?

Another thing to consider, if someone shoots you a few times in the CT, and then missiles rain down on you, even if the missiles spread the damage perfectly evenly, your CT would die first, from having been shot previously. Since the CT is what everyone guns for, it is not surprising that the end result is usually a destroyed CT. How likely is it that the ONLY thing that hit you in a match was missiles.

[RAGE PRO]

GJ pgi, again lrms trash. Now we can remove ams, sell useles mechs like atlas-k and return to ppc\gauss boats.

[arghmace]

Colonel Pada Vinson, on 24 May 2013 - 02:10 PM, said:

a normal dual lrm 15 catapult isnt viable anymore.

This is exactly what I noticed, too. My damage in a D-DC is triple compared to my 30 missile Cat. I suppose those 60-75 missile Stalkers are still good but Catapults are crap not to mention for example a Dragon that can only use 1 LRM10.

[arghmace]

RAGE PRO, on 24 May 2013 - 02:12 PM, said:

GJ pgi, again lrms trash.

I don't know whom to blame more for the balance issues of this game: PGI or the community that rages all the time about this and that with capital letters and big font without any reasonable math to back up their opinions. Oh yes, and at the same time further strengthens the problems by joining in the current meta. Take pop tarts, for instance. I don't play them. I hate every bloody pop tart since they ruin the fun in this game. Why would I sink so low as to become the thing I hate? To win maybe a few battles more? No thank you, I'd rather win with style by doing something original.

Edited by arghmace, 24 May 2013 - 02:25 PM.

[Ransack]

Wow, that didn't take long. Curious as to how come when its missiles, fixes (nerfs) can come so quickly, but everything else takes weeks or months even.

[Budor]

Paul Inouye, on 24 May 2013 - 01:06 PM, said:

Rabble rabble rabble!!

Splash damage was reduced from 1.8m to 0.05m. That's 180cm to 5cm.

CT is taking more damage than the rest of your components why? Because the CT is the largest part of a BattleMech. It's going to take the most hits out of a volley of missiles. The missiles are not told to target any part of a Mech, they're told to get into position and follow that path from start to finish. If your target turns their torso 90 degrees from incoming missiles, they're going to lose an arm before they get cored.

How does this change the fact that splash overlaps differently on mechs with more complex geometry?

[BlueSanta]

Thontor, on 24 May 2013 - 01:46 PM, said:

streaks target specific locations, yes

lrms do not

Well then I would love to be told what the difference is.

[Lightfoot]

arghmace, on 24 May 2013 - 02:22 PM, said:

I don't know whom to blame more for the balance issues of this game: PGI or the community that rages all the time about this and that with capital letters and big font without any reasonable math to back up their opinions. Oh yes, and at the same time further strengthens the problems. Take pop tarts, for instance. I don't play them. I hate every ******** pop tart since they ruin the fun in this game. Why would I sink so low as to become the thing I hate? To win maybe a few battles more? No thank you, I'd rather win with style.

Good point. What is style? What is good? What is bad? It's a flag that so many players like to wave. But style doesn't produce a balanced game with great diversity.

What weapon are we now allowed to use on our Mechs? LRMs=No, PPCs=No, Gauss Rifles=No, JJets=No, SSRMs=No. Medium Lasers=Yes. See what I am getting at? Style alone will make MWO dull as donuts, diversity will make MWO great.

What happened to LRMs today took diversity out of MWO gameplay. Hopefully they can be restored to a competitive balance soon.

[BlueSanta]

Colonel Pada Vinson, on 24 May 2013 - 02:10 PM, said:

this is definitely a problem. a normal dual lrm 15 catapult isnt viable anymore. guessing the loss of splash dmg toned the lrms down way to much, maybe trying 1.2-1.5 for dmg is now necessary. hvy boating is the big issue which hopefully boating heat penalties can address.

poptarts are totally back, we need to be able to arc the lrms over cover better with tag narc at the very least.

It's a given that with reduced splash the loss in damage is going to have to be made up by increasing the raw damage number. They will probably have to increase it to 1.0 or greater.

Budor, on 24 May 2013 - 02:39 PM, said:

How does this change the fact that splash overlaps differently on mechs with more complex geometry?

Exactly. Smaller mechs will always be more adversely affected by splash damage, which is why it just needs to be removed.

[Dude42]

Budor, on 24 May 2013 - 02:39 PM, said:

How does this change the fact that splash overlaps differently on mechs with more complex geometry?

Are you familiar with 5cm? Go ahead, grab a ruler. I'll wait...

The missile are more than 5cm in diameter. That means they effectively have a splash radius less than their diameter. Think about that for a moment. When the missiles impact you, instead of exploding, they shrink down.

Edited by Dude42, 24 May 2013 - 02:49 PM.

[Unbound Inferno]

Paul Inouye, on 24 May 2013 - 01:06 PM, said:

Rabble rabble rabble!!

Splash damage was reduced from 1.8m to 0.05m. That's 180cm to 5cm.

CT is taking more damage than the rest of your components why? Because the CT is the largest part of a BattleMech. It's going to take the most hits out of a volley of missiles. The missiles are not told to target any part of a Mech, they're told to get into position and follow that path from start to finish. If your target turns their torso 90 degrees from incoming missiles, they're going to lose an arm before they get cored.

Let me get this straight then;

The missiles cause damage where they impact - the splash is just the relative area around where it hits?

The only reason people are being cored then is because the missile path is directed at the center of the mech right?


Couldn't the solution for the CT coring is to have the 'path' the group of missiles follow be "around" that line? Allowing the missiles to hit other areas that aren't the CT of the mech easier.


Might be a bit complicated that way though, forcing missiles to keep a relative minimum distance from one another to encourage it. Ironically it could counter the desire to 'boat' missiles when you get such a wide spread.

[arghmace]

Lightfoot, on 24 May 2013 - 02:43 PM, said:

Good point. What is style? What is good? What is bad? It's a flag that so many players like to wave. But style doesn't produce a balanced game with great diversity.

The thing I cannot understand are people that whine about how this game is not fun since everyone is using LRM boats or pop tarts or whatever is deemed OP at the moment - and at the same time they themselves play those same builds!

In my opinion a person has no right to complain about something he himself is quilty of. That's just double standards and lack of a back bone. These people should grow a pair and learn to live by what they preach instead of doing nothing themselves to better the situation and just yapping endlessly. Show an example.

[Commander Kobold]

Unbound Inferno, on 24 May 2013 - 02:51 PM, said:

Let me get this straight then;

The missiles cause damage where they impact - the splash is just the relative area around where it hits?

The only reason people are being cored then is because the missile path is directed at the center of the mech right?


Couldn't the solution for the CT coring is to have the 'path' the group of missiles follow be "around" that line? Allowing the missiles to hit other areas that aren't the CT of the mech easier.


Might be a bit complicated that way though, forcing missiles to keep a relative minimum distance from one another to encourage it. Ironically it could counter the desire to 'boat' missiles when you get such a wide spread.

doesn't change the fact that the CT is the largest part of any mech and as such would be hit more often the only way to change it would be for the missiles to travel in big circles (like a donut) instead of in swarms/clouds

[Unbound Inferno]

Omni 13, on 24 May 2013 - 03:01 PM, said:

doesn't change the fact that the CT is the largest part of any mech and as such would be hit more often the only way to change it would be for the missiles to travel in big circles (like a donut) instead of in swarms/clouds

True, but I don't want to erase the CT hit. Just lessen it somewhat.

[RevancheCBT]

Haven't read all 19 pages here, but is anyone else still experiencing Pilot Rapture in 2/3rds of every game? It doesn't seem as if it's limited to only owned 'Mechs nor just one class. I start the game and 30 seconds in, I'll get cut to client.

I've reported it twice post-patch, but I've been told the next scheduled patch is 04 June, though it may be as soon as next Tuesday.

[Commander Kobold]

Unbound Inferno, on 24 May 2013 - 03:03 PM, said:

True, but I don't want to erase the CT hit. Just lessen it somewhat.

all you have to do is twist...literally that's all you have to do XD

[Shredhead]

Dude42, on 24 May 2013 - 08:05 AM, said:

I also wonder why poptarts and humpers got special treatment, in that they were allowed to reign supreme for months on end, with no "hotfix" 3 days later nerfing them into oblivion. LRMs weren't even OP if you had 2 braincells to rub together. I'm thinking the devs like to poptart.


Point-Click-Win-Poptart4Lyfe

If dropping down behind a building or sliding down a mountain because you're overheated is "heat management", maybe. Also, with the speed of certain projectiles + HSR, the "aimskill" requires about as much skill as double-clicking the MW:O icon to launch the game. Half as much actually, because you have to click twice to launch the game, whereas you only have to click once to alpha strike.

Omni 13, on 24 May 2013 - 08:07 AM, said:

I'm sorry your poptart/(whatever you run) has to expose it self for 0.5 seconds to click the mouse once. You have enough methods available to counter/lessen the effects of missiles and I've never had a light mech (or any other mech) complain about me assisting them in taking down a target not all LRM users sit at the edge of the map firing from behind cover.

^Running Hunchback, Phracts and Raven, being a brawler since August last year, but yeah, I'm such a poptarter. Because only freaking poptarters were affected, no, we were twice punished by poptarters and Lurmers. But I think the universe is centered around you and your strawman arguments...

[Rebas Kradd]

Disappointed. I enjoyed LRM's being a real threat, with or without poptarts.

[Nicholas Carlyle]

For those complaining about light mechs and splash damage...go try to hit one with LRM's.

It doesn't seem to work. Ever. Unless they stop moving. Ever seen a stopped light? Me neither.

[Deathlike]

Paul Inouye, on 24 May 2013 - 01:06 PM, said:

Rabble rabble rabble!!

Splash damage was reduced from 1.8m to 0.05m. That's 180cm to 5cm.

CT is taking more damage than the rest of your components why? Because the CT is the largest part of a BattleMech. It's going to take the most hits out of a volley of missiles. The missiles are not told to target any part of a Mech, they're told to get into position and follow that path from start to finish. If your target turns their torso 90 degrees from incoming missiles, they're going to lose an arm before they get cored.

Here's the mistake.. if you change LRM damage with the broken mechanic (aka coring my CT like it was butter), then nerfing the splash damage would VERY LIKELY make whatever adjustments you made to LRM damage INVALID.

This is why people DO NOT TRUST your balance judgement. It is always one bugfix/adjustment away from going in the other direction... THAT IS NOT BALANCE, EVER.

Edited by Deathlike, 24 May 2013 - 04:28 PM.