436 replies to this topic

[DeaconW]

Omni 13, on 25 May 2013 - 10:14 AM, said:

It should not take me 4 tonnes of A-LRM ammo on a stationary awesome to kill it.

Show the video...but for the sake of argument let's assume you are correct...that is 720 missiles which is 648 damage. Not all missiles are guaranteed to hit and others are hit by AMS (did he have AMS, did all missiles hit?, did he have friends with AMS?). Depending on what happened, that could be completely legit. All I know is that I have been taken down by as few as 3-4 volleys of missiles last night when I made a mistake and was too far from cover. This seems fair to me.

[Nightcrept]

DeaconW, on 25 May 2013 - 10:19 AM, said:

Show the video...but for the sake of argument let's assume you are correct...that is 720 missiles which is 648 damage.  Not all missiles are guaranteed to hit and others are hit by AMS (did he have AMS, did all missiles hit?, did he have friends with AMS?).  Depending on what happened, that could be completely legit.  All I know is that I have been taken down by as few as 3-4 volleys of missiles last night when I made a mistake and was too far from cover.  This seems fair to me.

If the 2-4 volleys was a 60+ stalker ultra boat then your talking about balancing lrms according to ultra boating. The problem with that and what most of us are trying to get across is that balancing lrm's due to that boater is that lrms become useless below ultra boating lvl. The avg percentage of missiles that hit is around 35% not including ams etc. That gives lrms a horrendous dmg to ton ratio and the most drawbacks of any weapon in the game. The arc needed nerfed but damage needed raised.

[AztecD]

DeaconW, on 25 May 2013 - 10:13 AM, said:

I don't know what game you guys are playing but I have used and have had LRM's used against me in multiple matches since yesterday....they are definitely being used effectively.



Except the argument was that they were "like a wet paper towel"...

Several games I have unloaded all 1080 missiles with 2 LRM20 and we have not had a single kill, I mean even taking into account how much I suck at piloting, that is just bad

[Shredhead]

AztecD, on 25 May 2013 - 11:04 AM, said:

Several games I have unloaded all 1080 missiles with 2 LRM20 and we have not had a single kill, I mean even taking into account how much I suck at piloting, that is just bad

So you "suck at piloting". It's surely the best way to progress in a game by demanding a low skill high reward weapon instead of learning the ropes...

[Rebas Kradd]

I'm amending my previous statement. I actually feel now that LRM's are better than where they were since LRMpocaylpse, but still not quite back to where it should be. Perhaps missile HSR next patch will provide a bit of a boost.

[El Bandito]

Way to drop the ******* ball PGI. The game is now back to PPC spam. You know, that 2 months of boring as **** meta we had? Just when the playing field was becoming diverse after the 21st patch you guys pulled off this dumb hot-fix. Was planning to drop fifty bucks for appreciation, but now? **** it.

Shredhead, on 25 May 2013 - 11:16 AM, said:

So you "suck at piloting". It's surely the best way to progress in a game by demanding a low skill high reward weapon instead of learning the ropes...

No LRMs are pure crap now. And every one is back to equally easy to use but far deadly PPCs.

Edited by El Bandito, 25 May 2013 - 04:29 PM.

[NikkoChan]

Lrm trajectory was the only problem with them. Nice to see it fixed. Now we just need ssrm to core less and missiles would be great. The new changes still make LRM a very effective weapon.

[Thunder Child]

CLPT-C1 with 2x LRM15 inc Artemis, Beagle, Tag, and 3x Medium Lasers = 300 Damage per match.
CLPT-K2 with 4x PPC = 750 Damage per Match.

Both have the same amount of armor, and the same engine.
Obviously, the K2 uses Heatsinks instead of ammo, but all said and done, they have the same amount of tonnage devoted to weapons systems.
The K2 is used as a sniper, the C1 as Direct-Fire Support.
LRMs are still a bad weapon, even when used with any and all extra buffs that you can give them. Yes, I realise that when boated on a Stalker, they become a little scary. But that can be said of ANY weapon system commonly boated on a Stalker. So I say we should balance weapon systems based on a 1 to 1 basis, and then PGI gives out a free Stalker to each player. Oh, and Buff LRM Damage to 1, but increase the spread.

[AztecD]

also undo the AMS changed you sneaked in

devs are poptarters, no other way to explain this immediate hotfix

[CrazyJuan]

Dev's might just be poptarts. (no edit I didnt say that. I said pop T A R D s)

Really wish someone would have told me that missiles of all sorts were going to be pretty much useless, it might have affected my choice of mech purchases.

Devs seem to be adjusting LRMs with all the finesse of a sledge hammer. Don't ***** to me about how you think its no skill and blah blah blah, yes, if a fire-support mech has good spotters and someone defeating enemy ECM, AND theres not abundant cover to be had, missile boats can be scary. Thats quite a few things that have to go right. As if thats not enough, they go and nerf the damage into uselessness. God forbid we have effective indirect fire through teamwork to flush out the snipers...

And don't even get me started about SRM's. I've pretty much given up on my previously excellent DDC slugger because the mighty ac/20 3xSRM6 combo is now pretty much a joke because the SRMs are basically a feather duster.

Disappointed that every change since I've started playing seems to be shifting the advantage towards supremely boring sniping contests.

Edited by CrazyJuan, 25 May 2013 - 09:35 PM.

[Corvus Antaka]

I'd say LRMS ARC is about right without TAG/NARC now. With TAG/NARC Id like to see the old arc return to favour 8v8 and 12v12 premades

splash could be increased as well as damage with the current arcs and system if tracking was brought down. imho any mech vectoring an incomming flight and sidestepping properly should be able to dodge them, 40-60 kph it should be hard, nearly impossible, but doable, 80-100 it should be med difficulty maybe 70 degree vs 90 degree angle, and 120 kph where they are now or even easier for lights to dodge seems reasonable.

if damage came up to X/?twice? what they do now combined with less tracking, and the TAG/NARC gave the old arc back so poptarts can be flushed with flanking scouts and mechs could use jumpjets and movement to dodge LRMS would require skill, hit hard enough to justify the tonnage, and still be dodgeable.

while the old arc with tag/narc might seem OP, the onus is on the team to defend against scouts, and holding tag/narc is not easy when a medium or 2 is chasing you down.

Edited by Colonel Pada Vinson, 26 May 2013 - 12:56 AM.

[PeekaBoo I C Ju]

I do not think LRM's are worth their weight...too easy to avoid and not enough damage, they still miss way too much, especially against lights

[arghmace]

One shot from a 7 ton PPC does 10 dmg to a single location.
One shot from a 10 ton LRM20 does on average maybe 7 dmg spread out to multiple locations.

'nuff said.

How did I come to that 7 dmg, you might ask. First of all AMS shoots down 5 missiles. Then perhaps half of the missiles hit. And even 50% hit rate is actually an exaggeration, it's lower than that to be honest.

[Balfor]

With the Hotfix LRM are even more worthless then before the Patch....

With the oh so OP Patch I had about 50 - 100 Pts. Damage in Avarage more in an Game.
Before the Patch everybody laughed at me for using LRM´s because they are worthless, after the Patch everybody called me Noob for using them because they are OP...

For about 2 Days (before the Hotfix) there was an Antidote against the PPC-JJ-Sniper-Madness, now it´s even more worse than before the Patch.
I see Stalkers standing in the open on Hilltops, blasting away with 5 PPC, not even bothering the 40 LRM´s fired at them.

So if the only Possibility to make the Dev´s listen is whining:

Whine, whine....PPC are so OP, POPTARTS are so OP whine, Give me back my LRM whine, whine, whine.

@PGI: There is NO way to Fix the LRM when you change EVERYTHING with every Patch....Do not use the Sledgehammer use the Tweezers.....

P.S.: WHINE, WHINE, WHINE....PPCs are so OP WHINE, WHINE, WHINE....Poptarts suck WHINE, WHINE, WHINE......SWO (Sniper Warrior Online) sucks WHINE, WHINE, WHINE......

[CrazyJuan]

Shredhead, on 25 May 2013 - 11:16 AM, said:

So you "suck at piloting". It's surely the best way to progress in a game by demanding a low skill high reward weapon instead of learning the ropes...

LoL and whats a high skill weapon? Don't tell me, a PPC, or a Gauss Rifle. Pft, Pop t a r d ing takes skill I suppose? Pfft. LRMS even when at their "worst" were not OP, and if you were getting rolled by them (why you think they are low skill) then you were doing it wrong.

[Skyfaller]

Acid Phase, on 24 May 2013 - 06:03 AM, said:

Adding artemis takes up valuable space I have on my mech. SRMs just needed splash damage to be removed. What is the reason for the spread?

Artemis is the reason for the spread. If you dont use artemis your SRMs will fly out like a shotgun.

The tight spread is worth the space it takes up.

[Wintersdark]

arghmace, on 26 May 2013 - 03:50 AM, said:

One shot from a 7 ton PPC does 10 dmg to a single location.
One shot from a 10 ton LRM20 does on average maybe 7 dmg spread out to multiple locations.

'nuff said.

How did I come to that 7 dmg, you might ask. First of all AMS shoots down 5 missiles. Then perhaps half of the missiles hit. And even 50% hit rate is actually an exaggeration, it's lower than that to be honest.

I'd say less than half the mechs I fire at have AMS. (Edit: Excluding the Crazy LRM Days)

The PPC does 10 damage to a single location inside half the range of the LRM's. At, say, 700m the PPC is doing less damage as well. The PPC requires precision aim, the LRM simply requires I hold my crosshairs vaguely near my target. The PPC requires I expose myself to enemy fire, the LRM can be launched from the safety of cover.

When I'm watching my missiles fly, all - or very nearly all - of them hit, if they've got a good clear shot. Of course, I'm always using Artemis, which is absolutely worth the space and tonnage.

I have around a 35% hit rate overall. This is not because so many miss in a volley, but rather because lots of whole volleys miss (much as many full PPC shots miss).

All that said, I think missiles are a *touch* weak now, but at least with splash and missile pathing corrected, damage can be adjusted without balance flying out the window due to exponential increases inconsistently across various mechs.

I expect to see them pushed to 1 damage (tabletop) from the 0.9 they are at currently.


Finally, this talk of huge swings? It's entirely uncalled for. This patch, including the hotfix that was supposed to go with the patch - counts as a net buff for LRM's, but not an enormous one. PGI did exactly what you want, and made a small adjustment. It wasn't deployed correctly (hence the crazy couple days) but they fixed the error promptly.

Edited by Wintersdark, 26 May 2013 - 05:39 PM.

[BlueSanta]

So Paul, when are we going to see splash damage finally removed from the game?

[Rebas Kradd]

arghmace, on 26 May 2013 - 03:50 AM, said:

One shot from a 7 ton PPC does 10 dmg to a single location.
One shot from a 10 ton LRM20 does on average maybe 7 dmg spread out to multiple locations.

'nuff said.

How did I come to that 7 dmg, you might ask. First of all AMS shoots down 5 missiles. Then perhaps half of the missiles hit. And even 50% hit rate is actually an exaggeration, it's lower than that to be honest.

But you can fire LRM's without aiming or even a direct LOS. That's the tradeoff.

[Corvus Antaka]

Rebas Kradd, on 26 May 2013 - 05:57 PM, said:

But you can fire LRM's without aiming or even a direct LOS. That's the tradeoff.

As if that is an advantage. You can fire anything else and hit the guy right away and do a lot more damage exactly where you want instantly or nearly instantly.