436 replies to this topic

[arghmace]

DeaconW, on 24 May 2013 - 08:23 AM, said:

Yeah...because people playing the game won't figure out what is OP in a game and use that...

The way I saw this incident was that with the LRM changes announced a huge number of players went to try them out. This resulted in the sky being black with missiles. Now most players coming to battle were like "omg, so many missiles, they must be super, I gotta boat more of them than the others" and the circle was complete. This here is the base problem with this game. A single LRM boat is not bad. But when you have 8 of them, nobody has fun. Same goes with pop tarts. Or have you maybe tried playing with 8 dual-AC20 Jagers? The boating problem not only applies to building of a mech, it also applies to team building. Having multiple similar mechs makes your team more powerful - no matter what the weapon is, really.

[TheSteelRhino]

Dude42, on 24 May 2013 - 08:26 AM, said:

Do you know how fast the first "LRM OP HELP" thread appeared on Tuesday? In order to play like they do, I have to start before trying it, before attempting to adjust my playstyle, or before making any attempt to do anything but QQ.

Did you know they posted about it before that thread probably got started? PGI KNEW It was an issue, and just couldn't get the fix in and tested for the scheduled release.

Even THEN...just b/c other ppl Freak out and go into hysterics, you should too?

Gawd, it's like a bunch of screaming 4 year olds.

[Commander Kobold]

Mister Blastman, on 24 May 2013 - 08:34 AM, said:

So you think a free CT coring every time is balanced? Even with streaks?

Are you high?

and the award for grandest assumption goes to...

VagGR, on 24 May 2013 - 08:35 AM, said:

the fact that you can stay almost a kilometer away and fire your missiles without exposing yourself, and without too much trouble aiming i believe justifies it enough...

if you can't get behind a hill in 8.3 seconds after getting a big red WARNING INCOMING MISSILE that's your fault.

[Dude42]

VagGR, on 24 May 2013 - 08:35 AM, said:

the fact that you can stay almost a kilometer away and fire your missiles without exposing yourself, and without too much trouble aiming i believe justifies it enough...

Kinda like being able to jumpjet up the side of a building from 1400m away and Point-Click-Win-Poptart4Lyfe without ANY trouble aiming, considering HSR and projectile speed, then fall back into cover with impunity?

[TheSteelRhino]

Mister Blastman, on 24 May 2013 - 08:37 AM, said:

LRMs actually worked the best and most appropriately in MW 2: Mercenaries. They would swarm a target and... distribute damage over the entire mech!

They would "melt" their target slowly. Even a 13xLRM 10 Atlas would take a while to kill a target. But it was FUN! AMS was very useful too.

THIS RIGHT HERE. ^^^^^^^^^^^

As far as gameplay that was best MW title yet imho. That is EXACTLY how LRMS should work. They hit all over and "sand" armour off mech.

[Mister Blastman]

Omni 13, on 24 May 2013 - 08:40 AM, said:

and the award for grandest assumption goes to...



if you can't get behind a hill in 8.3 seconds after getting a big red WARNING INCOMING MISSILE that's your fault.

Omni 13, on 24 May 2013 - 08:40 AM, said:

and the award for grandest assumption goes to...



if you can't get behind a hill in 8.3 seconds after getting a big red WARNING INCOMING MISSILE that's your fault.

Snappy comeback. Alas, it falls short.

You said the words. You refuse to defend them and instead, cleverly say I made an assumption.

However, you CLEARLY stated your opinion when you said:

Quote

3)the speed buff barely shaves a second off the flight time from A-B and the DMG buff won't be as effective because it's not going to spread anymore.

Well, guess what? The REASON missiles are SO effective right now are because the spread is coring the CT every single time. I see people here whining about the nerf of a BROKEN mechanic.

Fixing BROKEN things only make the game better, not worse.

Now, if they'd only fix the convergence system so snipers aren't as effective by just alpha striking (well, any boated weapon system).

[Azelectron]

Obsidian Hand, on 23 May 2013 - 11:47 PM, said:

The solution to the missile arcing is simple really I'm surprised the developers never considered it:

Make the missiles (LRMs and SRMs) fire straight out toward where the reticle ( the + reticle or the o reticle, depending where the missiles are mounted) is pointed. In the case of LRMs and Streak SRMs, the initial launch velocity would send them out in a straight line for a second or two, then their guidance systems would kick in to adjust their course toward their target.

That would mean that if the launcher was pointed straight at the target at the time of launch, then the missiles would simply go in a (relatively) straight line.

But should a pilot find an obstacle between himself and his target, he can lock on, then taking advantage of the few seconds a lock remains after the reticle is removed from the target box, point his reticle (hence, the launcher) up or to the side before firing. The combination of initial launch velocity and guidance would produce the arc naturally (and even give a skilled pilot a little more control over how his missiles arc).

In case people think I'm just pulling this technique out of my behind, this is actually how missiles behave IN REAL LIFE.

Just my two cents.

That's the way it worked back in MW2(Netmech). I kinda liked it myself.

[DeaconW]

arghmace, on 24 May 2013 - 08:37 AM, said:

The boating problem not only applies to building of a mech, it also applies to team building. Having multiple similar mechs makes your team more powerful - no matter what the weapon is, really.

Not really...boating anything has weaknesses (or should). The 2xAC-20 has a significant weakness...even 8 of them...SHORT RANGE. Right now, LRM's have been buffed so that they have passed the tipping point and can kill the other team easily before they close range to exploit the LRM's weakness...MINIMUM RANGE.

If you wonder if LRM's are OP right now, here is my final piece of evidence...lights are boating LRM5's. I rest my case.

BTW, I am using LRM's in game right now....it truly is close to easy mode...not as easy as LRMageddon or the light lagshield issue, but I am getting way more effect that I should.

[Thanatos676]

Mister Blastman, on 24 May 2013 - 08:43 AM, said:

Fixing BROKEN things only make the game better, not worse.

Thanks for saying it...its true. I use LRMs and even I am saying the system is broke and has been since tuesday. Center Torso cores every damn time and nothing else gets damaged more then a tiny bit.

[Commander Kobold]

Mister Blastman, on 24 May 2013 - 08:43 AM, said:

Snappy comeback. Alas, it falls short.

You said the words. You refuse to defend them and instead, cleverly say I made an assumption.

However, you CLEARLY stated your opinion when you said:




Well, guess what? The REASON missiles are SO effective right now are because the spread is coring the CT every single time. I see people here whining about the nerf of a BROKEN mechanic.

Fixing BROKEN things only make the game better, not worse.

Now, if they'd only fix the convergence system so snipers aren't as effective by just alpha striking (well, any boated weapon system).

If you read more of my posts you know I don't want missiles to be super op I want them to be a valid weapon without having to boat 60-80 tubes of them. PGI wouldn't have to "fix" so many things if they didn't break them in the first place and my only BIG issue with what they're doing is lowering the splash damage (which should fix everyone thinking they're only hitting CT) without adding an extr 0.2-0.4 dmg to make up for the loss in damage they'll be receiving.

[Dude42]

DeaconW, on 24 May 2013 - 08:46 AM, said:

Not really...boating anything has weaknesses (or should). The 2xAC-20 has a significant weakness...even 8 of them...SHORT RANGE. Right now, LRM's have been buffed so that they have passed the tipping point and can kill the other team easily before they close range to exploit the LRM's weakness...MINIMUM RANGE.

If you wonder if LRM's are OP right now, here is my final piece of evidence...lights are boating LRM5's. I rest my case.

BTW, I am using LRM's in game right now....it truly is close to easy mode...not as easy as LRMageddon or the light lagshield issue, but I am getting way more effect that I should.

I laughed. AC/20s are CLOSE RANGE WEAPONS. That's why 2xAC/20 mechs HUG YOU TO DEATH. And if you can't get withing 200m of an LRM boat I feel bad for you. Also, how the hell do you know how much effect you SHOULD be getting? Wouldn't that depend on the skill of your opponents?

Edited by Dude42, 24 May 2013 - 08:50 AM.

[VagGR]

Dude42, on 24 May 2013 - 08:40 AM, said:

Kinda like being able to jumpjet up the side of a building from 1400m away and Point-Click-Win-Poptart4Lyfe without ANY trouble aiming, considering HSR and projectile speed, then fall back into cover with impunity?

yes excactly like that...but having insanly broken missiles isnt the solution to poptarts

[Commander Kobold]

Dude42, on 24 May 2013 - 08:49 AM, said:

I laughed. AC/20s are CLOSE RANGE WEAPONS. That's why 2xAC/20 mechs HUG YOU TO DEATH. And if you can't get withing 200m of an LRM boat I feel bad for you. Also, how the hell do you know how much effect you SHOULD be getting? Wouldn't that depend on the skill of your opponents?

I think he meant short range as in the AC20 is a short range weapon.

VagGR, on 24 May 2013 - 08:50 AM, said:

yes excactly like that...but having insanly broken missiles isnt the solution to poptarts

they weren't "insanely broken" but they did solve the poptart problem.

[Dude42]

VagGR, on 24 May 2013 - 08:50 AM, said:

yes excactly like that...but having insanly broken missiles isnt the solution to poptarts

I'm not so sure about that. I've definitely seen less poptarts. And the ones I have seen, melted. Fast.

[Firenze]

Omni 13, on 24 May 2013 - 08:52 AM, said:

they weren't "insanely broken" but they did solve the poptart problem.

Well... they havent... because people who like to play with jump snipers are still gonna play it.

[Dude42]

Omni 13, on 24 May 2013 - 08:52 AM, said:

I think he meant short range as in the AC20 is a short range weapon.



they weren't "insanely broken" but they did solve the poptart problem.

Rereading his post. You may be correct, although he certainly wasn't very clear

[TheSteelRhino]

Thanatos676, on 24 May 2013 - 08:46 AM, said:

Thanks for saying it...its true. I use LRMs and even I am saying the system is broke and has been since tuesday. Center Torso cores every damn time and nothing else gets damaged more then a tiny bit.

An Honest man...Thank you!

[TheSteelRhino]

Dude42, on 24 May 2013 - 08:49 AM, said:

I laughed. AC/20s are CLOSE RANGE WEAPONS. That's why 2xAC/20 mechs HUG YOU TO DEATH. And if you can't get withing 200m of an LRM boat I feel bad for you. Also, how the hell do you know how much effect you SHOULD be getting? Wouldn't that depend on the skill of your opponents?

So..now this is interesting. What if you are an atlas or highlander pilot, faced with 5 missile boats. I bet getting to 180 meters isn't so easy now is it. Now I typically drive mediums most of the time. Yeah..getting to 180 meters isn't really a problem...but if they are in 2 groups, and you are the ONLY MEDIUM MECH IN A PUG GROUP..Even if those 5 mechs had 10 mediums lasers between them..you are still screwed.

It is a team game. Teams are literally bringing LRMS stalkers, LRM Atllai, LRM Highlanders, etc...frosted with a light to medium dusting of Ravens, commandos etc for spotting and to defend the LRM boats....

[Commander Kobold]

Firenze, on 24 May 2013 - 08:52 AM, said:

Well... they havent... because people who like to play with jump snipers are still gonna play it.

of course just like some people still used LRMs when they where useless, the LRM "bug" just made it so that poptarts wouldn't last until the end of that match and still be pristine whilst everyone else was all banged up from being poptarted it added a decent counter to poptarts without having to be a poptart (I'm aware there's other way to beat them like PPCs and predicting when they'll jump I was just offering the easiest/most effective counter) EDIT: when I said LRMs where useless I ment before they where made usable in the current meta in the last patch

Edited by Omni 13, 24 May 2013 - 09:00 AM.

[VagGR]

Omni 13, on 24 May 2013 - 08:52 AM, said:

they weren't "insanely broken" but they did solve the poptart problem.

Dude42, on 24 May 2013 - 08:52 AM, said:

I'm not so sure about that. I've definitely seen less poptarts. And the ones I have seen, melted. Fast.

listen...i dont lrm boat.i dont ppc boat and i dont poptart...

yes, having missiles dropping at 90degfrees on your head did punish the poptarts and we do see less of them but it also punishes everyone else..yes we less poptart but do you know what we see more of? LRM boats...replacing potards with lrm boats is your solution?!

i want all weapons to be viable..this solves nothing