436 replies to this topic

[One Medic Army]

Dude42, on 24 May 2013 - 11:12 AM, said:

Dude, I want an APS.
Edit: Just in case thats unclear...Anti-PPC System

http://www.sarna.net...le_Field_Damper

It exists.

Btw, I hate pop tarts.
I also hate cover not working vs LRMs.
Not everyone is a missile boater or a poptart, some of us want a game where no weapon or tactic is more effective than all others.

Edited by One Medic Army, 24 May 2013 - 11:18 AM.

[arghmace]

Firenze, on 24 May 2013 - 11:12 AM, said:

Are you actually high or just.. ignorant.

Do you think it's a good thing that an LRM10 does 5 dmg and an LRM20 does 15? Why does the latter do 3 times as much instead of 2 times? This is what we get with AMS. Boats, boats, boats.

[Dude42]

One Medic Army, on 24 May 2013 - 11:15 AM, said:

http://www.sarna.net...le_Field_Damper

It exists.

Must. Have.

[Unbound Inferno]

The missile fix is in place, the splash is more around - but still does have a healthy dose hit the CT when you fire enough. The CT damage is down and spread around - but I did notice in the last few matches I was dealing alot of front-side damage where I could have sworn the missiles were being received on the back. Or my targets like looking at the pretty missiles as they flee.

[Corvus Antaka]

using LRMS - strange results. many many volleys out, marginal feeling damagesometimes with dual 15's. im hitting mechs in the back, the side, the front.

CT does appear to be taking some extra damage to some degree, but with artmemis and tag this is to be expected - i only see it when hitting mechs in the CT and their facing me.

LRM damage in general remains oddly lackluster and a bit odd feeling. boats and multiple lrm mechs hammering a guy in the open = doom. but then so does a bunch of direct fire mechs doing the same thing. nothing different.

lots of horrible piloting, people rushing out into the open or just not knowing what to do, laziness from 2 months of no LRMS.

Continue to suggest consideration to cut LRM turn rates so they are easier to dodge by medium mechs and fast heavies if they vector properly.

My hope is coming boating penalties will address mechs like 4 lrm 15 's with high heat penalties for alphaing that many lrms.

LRM damage seems very very low. I raked a blackjack with 12 rounds of dual LRM without artemis his CT did go red, but in total i dumped 7 tons of ammo and finished the match with 189 damage. something seems totally off right now, not sure whats going on. maybe if lrms where easier to dodge they could hit harder, its really wierd. no artemis is almost totally useless.

also ive noticed that aquiring lock, losing it and re-aquiring lock doesnt seem to work if the enemy mech shuts down...or even otherwise anymore??? i fought some jenners today 400 m in the open and they where shutting down/powering up and my lrms where just hitting the dirt.

might even need splash damage back when it works again.

Edited by Colonel Pada Vinson, 24 May 2013 - 11:35 AM.

[C E Dwyer]

Damocles69, on 23 May 2013 - 07:37 PM, said:

and now LRMS go back to the trash heap where they belong. good job

Erm no they don't..

[DeaconW]

arghmace, on 24 May 2013 - 11:09 AM, said:

AMS should be completely removed. It makes a single missile launcher useless and further encourages boating instead of fun and balanced builds. I don't understand why we even have it. There's no anti systems against other weapons, are there?

Wow...just...Wow. Tell you what...let's get on TS and sync drop against each other. You bring an AMS, I'll bring an LRM20. We''l go to the corner of the map and I will shoot volleys of LRM's at you from the LRM20 so you can show me how OP AMS is...

Seriously, do you even play this game or are you just trying to get goon cred by trolling threads with ridiculous posts?

[Monky]

Adding this to the pile
http://mwomercs.com/...ng/page__st__20

[Dude42]

Monky, on 24 May 2013 - 11:19 AM, said:

Adding this to the pile
http://mwomercs.com/...ng/page__st__20

They're STILL crying!?

[DeaconW]

arghmace, on 24 May 2013 - 11:15 AM, said:

Do you think it's a good thing that an LRM10 does 5 dmg and an LRM20 does 15? Why does the latter do 3 times as much instead of 2 times? This is what we get with AMS. Boats, boats, boats.

When you have data to cite that shows that AMS shoots down 5 missiles every time, pls come back. Until then your argument is based on fantasy.

Wait...I bet you think armor is OP too...

[One Medic Army]

arghmace, on 24 May 2013 - 11:15 AM, said:

Do you think it's a good thing that an LRM10 does 5 dmg and an LRM20 does 15? Why does the latter do 3 times as much instead of 2 times? This is what we get with AMS. Boats, boats, boats.

This is why AMS should be a shotgun rather than a CIWS system that seeks and destroys individual missiles.
More effective vs larger volleys.
It'd also be nice if multiple LRM enhancements stopped stacking, right now you need TAG and Artemis for your LRMs, this means a certain minimum investment required to use LRMs, which penalizes users of a single launcher proportionally more than users of multiple launchers.

DeaconW, on 24 May 2013 - 11:21 AM, said:

When you have data to cite that shows that AMS shoots down 5 missiles every time, pls come back. Until then your argument is based on fantasy.

Wait...I bet you think armor is OP too...

200m range
120m/s speed
1.67 seconds between LrM entering AMS range and hitting the target.
AMS deals 3.5 dmg/s
LRMs have 1 hp per missile

Thus an AMS will shoot down 5.8 missiles of a single volley if the target is standing still and all missiles are clustering together.

Math.

Edited by One Medic Army, 24 May 2013 - 11:25 AM.

[Bersy]

without splash its a bit to less damage. 1.0 or 1.1 would be perfect.

[arghmace]

DeaconW, on 24 May 2013 - 11:19 AM, said:

Wow...just...Wow. Tell you what...let's get on TS and sync drop against each other. You bring an AMS, I'll bring an LRM20. We''l go to the corner of the map and I will shoot volleys of LRM's at you from the LRM20 so you can show me how OP AMS is...

Is there any reasonable point to this post? How about I bring a large laser and you bring an ECM. What does that prove?

[DeathofSelf]

Dude42, on 24 May 2013 - 11:21 AM, said:

They're STILL crying!?

And here we have the pot calling the kettle black

[Monky]

One Medic Army, on 24 May 2013 - 11:22 AM, said:

This is why AMS should be a shotgun rather than a CIWS system that seeks and destroys individual missiles.
More effective vs larger volleys.
It'd also be nice if multiple LRM enhancements stopped stacking, right now you need TAG and Artemis for your LRMs, this means a certain minimum investment required to use LRMs, which penalizes users of a single launcher proportionally more than users of multiple launchers.

200m range
120m/s speed
1.67 seconds between LrM entering AMS range and hitting the target.
AMS deals 3.5 dmg/s
LRMs have 1 hp per missile

Thus an AMS will shoot down 5.8 missiles of a single volley if the target is standing still and all missiles are clustering together.

Math.

Another solution is give each bullet a % chance to kill a missile, based on missile type (since SRMs have shorter exposure time to the AMS). I think that is simpler, and would provide a randomization effect.

[arghmace]

One Medic Army, on 24 May 2013 - 11:22 AM, said:

This is why AMS should be a shotgun rather than a CIWS system that seeks and destroys individual missiles.
More effective vs larger volleys.

This is a very good idea. Many here don't seem to understand my point why current AMS is bad. Having 4 lasers is 4 times better than having 1. But having 4 missile launchers is more than 4 times better than having 1 due to AMS. We do not need encouragement to boating since it's too bad even without.

[ShinVector]

SSRMS now have wacky bugs now since the hotfix.. LOL !!
The SSRMs now hit the CT of commandos 100% of the time and there are other weird issues.
Refer to my post of the videos of it:
http://mwomercs.com/...s-commando-100/

[DeaconW]

arghmace, on 24 May 2013 - 11:24 AM, said:

Is there any reasonable point to this post? How about I bring a large laser and you bring an ECM. What does that prove?

Dude, you were the one that said AMS "made a single LRM launcher useless". I proposed an experiement. Ball is in your court.

One Medic Army, on 24 May 2013 - 11:22 AM, said:

This is why AMS should be a shotgun rather than a CIWS system that seeks and destroys individual missiles.
More effective vs larger volleys.
It'd also be nice if multiple LRM enhancements stopped stacking, right now you need TAG and Artemis for your LRMs, this means a certain minimum investment required to use LRMs, which penalizes users of a single launcher proportionally more than users of multiple launchers.

200m range
120m/s speed
1.67 seconds between LrM entering AMS range and hitting the target.
AMS deals 3.5 dmg/s
LRMs have 1 hp per missile

Thus an AMS will shoot down 5.8 missiles of a single volley if the target is standing still and all missiles are clustering together.

Math.

You are assuming there is no miss rate for AMS...is that stated somewhere? And empirically...I have a STK-5S with dual AMS and have been shot at by dual LRM5 lights and some LRM's still made it through.

Edited by DeaconW, 24 May 2013 - 11:31 AM.

[One Medic Army]

Monky, on 24 May 2013 - 11:27 AM, said:

Another solution is give each bullet a % chance to kill a missile, based on missile type (since SRMs have shorter exposure time to the AMS). I think that is simpler, and would provide a randomization effect.

Te goal isn't randomization, the goal is to kill a fraction of total incoming missiles rather than a set number of missiles.
If AMS had a chance to kill per aimed shot it would still, on average, be killing a set number of missiles and would be no more effective vs an LRM 20 than an LRM 5.
What I want is to see AMS kill 1-2 missiles from an LRM 5 and 4-8 missiles from an LRM 20.

DeaconW, on 24 May 2013 - 11:30 AM, said:

You are assuming there is no miss rate for AMS...is that stated somewhere?

The only weapon in this game that has a cone of fire effect is the MG. AMS is perfectly accurate just like every projectile or hitscan weapon.
(Edited for stupid autocorrect)

Edited by One Medic Army, 24 May 2013 - 11:33 AM.

[Nicholas Carlyle]

One Medic Army, on 24 May 2013 - 11:22 AM, said:

This is why AMS should be a shotgun rather than a CIWS system that seeks and destroys individual missiles.
More effective vs larger volleys.
It'd also be nice if multiple LRM enhancements stopped stacking, right now you need TAG and Artemis for your LRMs, this means a certain minimum investment required to use LRMs, which penalizes users of a single launcher proportionally more than users of multiple launchers.

200m range
120m/s speed
1.67 seconds between LrM entering AMS range and hitting the target.
AMS deals 3.5 dmg/s
LRMs have 1 hp per missile

Thus an AMS will shoot down 5.8 missiles of a single volley if the target is standing still and all missiles are clustering together.

Math.

arghmace, on 24 May 2013 - 11:24 AM, said:

Is there any reasonable point to this post? How about I bring a large laser and you bring an ECM. What does that prove?

This is why LRM's are always going to be a mess.

First the expectation of bringing extra gear (Good LRM pilots have their own TAG, Artemis and BAP). And a certain expectation of spotting. They are also the only weapon with a warning that gives someone time to avoid or adjust to them.

Then there is the fact that there are two pieces of gear directly created to counter them. AMS and ECM. No other weapons have this issue.

So you almost HAVE to run into an issue where there are instances where LRM's are overpowered.

Basically you have:

1] Base level LRM vs. Mech.

2] Full equip LRM vs. Mech.

3] Base level LRM vs. Mech with AMS

4] Full equip LRM vs Mech with AMS

5] Base level LRM vs. Mech with AMS & ECM

6] Full equip LRM vs Mech with AMS & ECM

Then there are all the variations inbetween, UAV, a Spotter.

Here is a question, if an LRM mech with all of the extra gear he can pack in, plus a UAV goes up against a mech with no AMS, and no ECM.

Should he rock out that mech?

If not, then what does an LRM mech with none of those things do? Roll over and die?