436 replies to this topic

[DeaconW]

One Medic Army, on 24 May 2013 - 11:30 AM, said:

Te goal isn't randomization, the goal is to kill a fraction of total incoming missiles rather than a set number of missiles.
If AMS had a chance to kill per aimed shot it would still, on average, be killing a set number of missiles and would be no more effective vs an LRM 20 than an LRM 5.
What I want is to see AMS kill 1-2 missiles from an LRM 5 and 4-8 missiles from an LRM 20.

This makes no sense. There is opportunity cost is bringing an LRM5 vice LRM20...just like AC2 versus AC-20. How about I propose armor is 4 times more effective against AC-20 than AC-2. That is logically equivalent to your argument.

[One Medic Army]

DeaconW, on 24 May 2013 - 11:33 AM, said:

This makes no sense. There is opportunity cost is bringing an LRM5 vice LRM20...just like AC2 versus AC-20. How about I propose armor is 4 times more effective against AC-20 than AC-2. That is logically equivalent to your argument.

Your logic, is not.

Btw in TT AMS gave your cluster hits roll a penalty. It did not shoot down a set number of missiles. AMS would only stop 1-2 missiles from an LRM5, it would stop a larger number of missiles from larger launchers.

[Commander Kobold]

Firenze, on 24 May 2013 - 10:45 AM, said:

Actually I've been playing a decent few matches already and the LRMs are way more useful than they were before the buff, but they also arent stupidly powerful either. Before the hotfix they were ripping mechs asunder left right and centre.Now they are balanced, and still very very useful.

more usefull than before the nerf my ***

[Commander Kobold]

Dude42, on 24 May 2013 - 10:48 AM, said:

But, are the poptarts back?

still there they know there's no reason for them to hide anymore

IV Amen, on 24 May 2013 - 10:47 AM, said:

Hey, the damage to CT was overwhelming. In an STK-5S using cover with 2 AMS I was still LRM'd down because of the flight pattern and broken splash damage. Then changed to fast mediums and kept ramming down LRM boats. That was kinda fun, but doesn't change the fact that LRM were BROKEN.

maybe you shouldn't have gobbled up LRMs with your face then?

One Medic Army, on 24 May 2013 - 11:15 AM, said:

http://www.sarna.net...le_Field_Damper

It exists.

Btw, I hate pop tarts.
I also hate cover not working vs LRMs.
Not everyone is a missile boater or a poptart, some of us want a game where no weapon or tactic is more effective than all others.

I want one of these A.S.A.P

[arghmace]

Yep just played a few battles and in average there were 4-5 Highlanders on both sides. No sense playing, really.

EDIT: Just noticed there's a free weekend deal on Chivalry, I'm quite sure it won't be full of pop tarts, so gotta go try it.

Edited by arghmace, 24 May 2013 - 11:51 AM.

[OpCentar]

LRM damage is now to prepatch levels, useless unless heavily boated.

[DeaconW]

Hey...at least ELO is still broken! Last two matches had at least 4 window-licking mouth breathers on my team(based on match score and rapidity of death)....but of course, the other team behaved like a 2x4 sync drop..."working as intended".

[Commander Kobold]

arghmace, on 24 May 2013 - 11:49 AM, said:

Yep just played a few battles and in average there were 4-5 Highlanders on both sides. No sense playing, really.

EDIT: Just noticed there's a free weekend deal on Chivalry, I'm quite sure it won't be full of pop tarts, so gotta go try it.

game is lolzy also warhammer is soo OP its funny

[TheSteelRhino]

Nicholas Carlyle, on 24 May 2013 - 11:30 AM, said:

This is why LRM's are always going to be a mess.

First the expectation of bringing extra gear (Good LRM pilots have their own TAG, Artemis and BAP). And a certain expectation of spotting. They are also the only weapon with a warning that gives someone time to avoid or adjust to them.

Then there is the fact that there are two pieces of gear directly created to counter them. AMS and ECM. No other weapons have this issue.

So you almost HAVE to run into an issue where there are instances where LRM's are overpowered.

Basically you have:

1] Base level LRM vs. Mech.

2] Full equip LRM vs. Mech.

3] Base level LRM vs. Mech with AMS

4] Full equip LRM vs Mech with AMS

5] Base level LRM vs. Mech with AMS & ECM

6] Full equip LRM vs Mech with AMS & ECM

Then there are all the variations inbetween, UAV, a Spotter.

Here is a question, if an LRM mech with all of the extra gear he can pack in, plus a UAV goes up against a mech with no AMS, and no ECM.

Should he rock out that mech?

If not, then what does an LRM mech with none of those things do? Roll over and die?

Here is the scenario.

AMS is an ACTIVE defense. It is capable of shooting down X number of missiles per second right?

It is irrelevant if it is an LRM 5, LRM20, or 4 x LRM5's. It may or may not hit up to X number coming at it.

But if you have 2 catapults, one with 6xLRM5's and one with 2 x LRM15's ...we are still talking 30 LRM's per volley.

It can shoot down UP to X number of missiles (can only spit out so many rounds per second)

Or even if you have 60 inbound missiles. It can only shoot down so many per second. That's just physics and math. Launcher really doesn't matter.

[C E Dwyer]

DeaconW, on 24 May 2013 - 11:53 AM, said:

Hey...at least ELO is still broken! Last two matches had at least 4 window-licking mouth breathers on my team(based on match score and rapidity of death)....but of course, the other team behaved like a 2x4 sync drop..."working as intended".

why don't you sync drop then ?

[Crimson Angel]

Poptarts are back. Truly disgusted. Gonna take a break till they find a way to stop it.

[Nicholas Carlyle]

Rhinehardt Ritter, on 24 May 2013 - 11:55 AM, said:

Here is the scenario.

AMS is an ACTIVE defense. It is capable of shooting down X number of missiles per second right?

It is irrelevant if it is an LRM 5, LRM20, or 4 x LRM5's. It may or may not hit up to X number coming at it.

But if you have 2 catapults, one with 6xLRM5's and one with 2 x LRM15's ...we are still talking 30 LRM's per volley.

It can shoot down UP to X number of missiles (can only spit out so many rounds per second)

Or even if you have 60 inbound missiles. It can only shoot down so many per second. That's just physics and math. Launcher really doesn't matter.

I understand the mechanics. I'm not arguing mechanics.

I'm arguing HOW THE HELL DO YOU BALANCE LRM'S WITH SO MANY DIFFERENT SCENARIOS.

[arghmace]

OpCentar, on 24 May 2013 - 11:53 AM, said:

LRM damage is now to prepatch levels, useless unless heavily boated.

Yep. The only LRM build that I've tried in recent days is a 'Pult with 2 ALRM15. Maybe that's why I didn't think them OP to begin with? Everyone is talking about Stalkers carrying 60-75 missiles, I guess. But then again I haven't really died from LRM fire so even that don't make much sense. All I know is that 2xLRM15 wasn't OP after Tuesday's patch and now it once again feels useless. If I wanna pilot a 'Pult, I'm probably gonna do twice the damage in K2 with 2 ERPPC and Gauss than in this C1 with 30 missiles and some lasers to back it up.

[Dude42]

Crimson Angel, on 24 May 2013 - 11:59 AM, said:

Poptarts are back. Truly disgusted. Gonna take a break till they find a way to stop it.

That is exactly what I was afraid of. I suffered through the poptarts and ridge humper since I first started with this game. I got a 2 day reprieve by this missile patch, and now that I've seen how much more fun the game can be when different tactics other than "approach nearest cover, (j)(h)ump, Point-Click-Win-Poptart4Lyfe" are required I just can't go back. I'm done till they fix it. Edit:If they ever do.

Edited by Dude42, 24 May 2013 - 12:10 PM.

[Commander Kobold]

Dude42, on 24 May 2013 - 12:09 PM, said:

That is exactly what I was afraid of. I suffered through the poptarts and ridge humper since I first started with this game. I got a 2 day reprieve by this missile patch, and now that I've seen how much more fun the game can be when different tactics other than "approach nearest cover, (j)(h)ump, Point-Click-Win-Poptart4Lyfe" are required I just can't go back. I'm done till they fix it. Edit:If they ever do.

yeah and now they announced mech #20 the Victor, even more poptarting (I don't know why we need an 80t highlander but meh)

Thontor, on 24 May 2013 - 12:11 PM, said:

there is a fix to poptarts coming soon

replacing poptarts with OP lrms is not the solution.

LRMs aren't/weren't OP Forum whiners are OP

[Death Dealer 199]

Just played 10 matches Atlas 2 LL 2 LRM15 + artims AC 20, i found that LRMs= trash poptareds are back. right back to pre patch.

[Nicholas Carlyle]

Omni 13, on 24 May 2013 - 12:12 PM, said:

yeah and now they announced mech #20 the Victor, even more poptarting (I don't know why we need an 80t highlander but meh)



LRMs aren't/weren't OP Forum whiners are OP

Thontor was the only person who thought LRM's were perfectly fine before the May 21st patch. So I wouldn't bother arguing with him.

[arghmace]

Oh well, in the grander scale of thing, LRM's aren't the silver bullet to balance out pop tarts. There are multiple issues entangled here. One is SRM's being crap, one is boating, one is the too complex mechanics of LRM's as wonderfully written by Nicholas Carlyle in post 283, then there's the ridiculous heat cap and pin point accuracy without need to aim. I really don't know anymore where to start. PGI has boiled such a mess that fixing it seems almost impossible.

[TOGSolid]

I'm cruising through the testing grounds right now and the patch doesn't really seem to have done much for the splash damage issue. It's a little better but the center is still being cored out before everything else and the rear armor section is still receiving damage even though it's not being hit (and vice versa). There are no two ways about this: Splash damage HAS to go. It's causing too many problems and doesn't add anything to the game except a giant headache.

Edited by TOGSolid, 24 May 2013 - 12:22 PM.

[Commander Kobold]

TOGSolid, on 24 May 2013 - 12:19 PM, said:

I'm cruising through the testing grounds right now and the patch doesn't really seem to have done much for the splash damage issue. It's a little better but the center is still being cored out before everything else and the rear armor section is still receiving damage even though it's not being hit (and vice versa). There are no two ways about this: Splash damage HAS to go. It's causing too many problems and doesn't add anything to the game except a giant headache.

stop running towards/looking at the missiles then, I've had 4 games since patch wen't live and I've blow off arms and legs you must be doing something wrong.