436 replies to this topic

[Tennex]

LRMs mechanics in general was very passive even before the recent buffs.

I think they should make it more active on both sides.
On the receiving end by making AMS activated(with a cooldown) instead of passive.

Well on the firing side, i'd be happy if LRMs were simply balanced lol.


LRMs have been so hard to balance. If they make it good indirect, it will be too powerful direct. and if they go nerf indirect, it will be useless direct.
so to solve that problem;

They seperate the direct fire and indirect fire damage. by increasing the spread on indirect fire.
I think they already have a system in place for that for artemis, they can just move it to nonartemis missiles as well..

Edited by Tennex, 27 May 2013 - 03:21 PM.

[Corvus Antaka]

Wintersdark, on 27 May 2013 - 02:39 PM, said:

This isn't very constructive.

I hate trying to be the voice of reason, but this isn't a discussion between the Pop Tarts and the LRM Boats. This may come as a surprise, but I'm willing to lay hard cash that the majority of players actually want all the weapons to be viable. And, maybe it's just me, and I'm a crazy *******, but I'm willing to bet that most people have Pop Tarts, LRM Boats, Brawlers, and probably a lot of various hybrids in their stables.

I know I have a couple mechs that are kitted right now as pop tarts. A couple scouts, a pair of LRM boats, a sniper, and a whole whack of varying balanced builds across my 20 or so mechs. And even then, I change builds on mechs I'm using constantly.

So... No, "Pop Tarts" don't want this game to be Quake. They're not a separate group of players at all. Most are just using whatever is working best for them right now. And even amoungst people I know who really love pop tarting, they don't want everyone pop tarting because that leads to purely un-fun gameplay. Pretty much nobody enjoys a battle of 16 bouncing mechs taking random potshots around, just as practically nobody wants to see a game where every mech on the field is an LRM boat.

Edit: I quoted you, but I don't mean to single you out. It's just a common thread in these debates, this "Us vs. Them" thing, and it's really counterproductive.

Anyways, I'm sorry, I'm just ranty today.

This is why my personal opinion is to raise LRM damage to fearsome levels equal to their tonnage value like a PPC, but curb their tracking down to make them dodgeable by all but the slowest most imobile mechs - which have ecm, ams and cover yet to deal with LRMS.

With proper design this gives users the skill to do something other than wall hump or AMS to deal with LRMS and this skill minigame then factors into overall gameplay to allow for new strategies like lrms on the flanks, brawlers in the middle to cover a battlefield properly and deal with LRMS that are evadeable while also removing a lot of the "incomming missile" frustration that leads to everyone cowering.

if at the same time lrms did enough damage to be fearsome we could approach a similar feel to what we have with ppc gauss where lead times etc call for good pilot judgement and aim on fast targets, making the entire experience more satisfying.

the one inevitable QQ will be the LRM slaughter of people who stand still, back up, or just pilot bloody horribly and eat LRMS to the face - but that is when it becomes necessary to teach with a tutorial pilots the basic skills of coping with each weapon system on the battlefield, or to learn the hard way on the battlefield, just like you learn the hard way when an atlas flattens you now.

[BlueSanta]

Paul Inouye, on 24 May 2013 - 01:06 PM, said:

Rabble rabble rabble!!

Splash damage was reduced from 1.8m to 0.05m. That's 180cm to 5cm.

CT is taking more damage than the rest of your components why? Because the CT is the largest part of a BattleMech. It's going to take the most hits out of a volley of missiles. The missiles are not told to target any part of a Mech, they're told to get into position and follow that path from start to finish. If your target turns their torso 90 degrees from incoming missiles, they're going to lose an arm before they get cored.

This fix has not been sufficient to reduce the coring potential of Streaks. Multiple times since the hotfix, I have still been cored by Streaks. Please just remove splash damage completely. If this still happens, then you need to change how Streaks target. They are still "magic missiles."

Edited by BlueSanta, 27 May 2013 - 06:36 PM.

[CrazyJuan]

Tennex, on 27 May 2013 - 03:06 PM, said:

LRMs hitting all the time is bad game mechanics.

it promotes passive unengaging gameplay.

the person firing the LRMs are passive because they don't have to find a vantage point.
the person recieving fire is passive because there is no way to find any cover...

i can understand that they were trying to make LRMs easier to balance by making it more consistent. but in the process we get an unfun mechanic.

Indirect fire is a part of battletech, and needs to be a part of this game, its woeful right now, The game needs it to keep the game from becoming boring *** snipe-fests.

[AztecD]

I have always wondered why in MWO all mechs have AMS, in cannon only a few do

[Budor]

Paul Inouye, on 23 May 2013 - 07:37 PM, said:

Stay out in the open and you're still going to feel the pain.

Youre talking about the LRM mech right?

[Sprouticus]

my thoughts here:

http://mwomercs.com/...ost__p__2394158


Short version, LRM's are close but need a few tweaks, and arguing about how much SKILL LRM's take is just plain foolishness...

[DeaconW]

Sprouticus, on 28 May 2013 - 09:29 AM, said:

my thoughts here:

http://mwomercs.com/...ost__p__2394158


Short version, LRM's are close but need a few tweaks, and arguing about how much SKILL LRM's take is just plain foolishness...

LRM's do take a specific kind of skill and playstyle, just like every other weapon and playstyle.

[Sprouticus]

DeaconW, on 28 May 2013 - 09:51 AM, said:

LRM's do take a specific kind of skill and playstyle, just like every other weapon and playstyle.

My point is we can argue all day whether something takes 'skill' or is 'hard'. That is what is silly. I agree that playing an LRM boat takes skills, just like poptarting takes skills and running a streak cat takes skills.

The quesiton of how difficult it is to master those skills is what I am saying is pointless. Because THAT is subjective and pointless.

[DeaconW]

Sprouticus, on 28 May 2013 - 09:59 AM, said:

My point is we can argue all day whether something takes 'skill' or is 'hard'. That is what is silly. I agree that playing an LRM boat takes skills, just like poptarting takes skills and running a streak cat takes skills.

The quesiton of how difficult it is to master those skills is what I am saying is pointless. Because THAT is subjective and pointless.

OK then! We agree...

[Sprouticus]

DeaconW, on 28 May 2013 - 10:01 AM, said:

OK then! We agree...

Yes, while rare on these board, agreement does take place on occasion.

[CrazyJuan]

Sprouticus, on 28 May 2013 - 11:54 AM, said:

Yes, while rare on these board, agreement does take place on occasion.

What bothers me are those who can't agree that a balanced game will not favor sniping over everything else. The game needs Sluggers and Indirect fire mechs to both be viable alternatives to the boring snipefests

[Ransack]

LRM's are a big frikkin joke now unless you are boating them. You guys are going to have to figure out a way to make a single rack or two viable. I understand that Mechs with multiple large racks of LRMS can be over powered. But when you are trying to provide fire support in something that is not capable of boating, you are screwed at the end. If you are going to continually nerf the hell out of the damage, at least give us a heat break. How you can up the speed, then nerf the damage to lower than it was before the speed buff, and still call it a gain is beyond me. Right now, LRMS are a sadder joke than at any time that I have seen in this game.

[Smokeyjedi]

There really should be a massive penalty on heat for boating and launching 50+ lrms. They should do devastating damage but be way too hot to consider pumping missiles out like rice at the end of a wedding. The cost of spraying missiles when rearm fees were implemented kept the boaters in check, now they have no restrictions LRMS are so whacky right now, riding this O.P -U.P rollercoaster.

[BlueSanta]

Paul Inouye, on 24 May 2013 - 01:06 PM, said:

Rabble rabble rabble!!

Splash damage was reduced from 1.8m to 0.05m. That's 180cm to 5cm.

CT is taking more damage than the rest of your components why? Because the CT is the largest part of a BattleMech. It's going to take the most hits out of a volley of missiles. The missiles are not told to target any part of a Mech, they're told to get into position and follow that path from start to finish. If your target turns their torso 90 degrees from incoming missiles, they're going to lose an arm before they get cored.

Just cored by Streaks in a freaking Atlas. So Paul, you can take your missile fix and shove it, it's still happening.

[HybridTheory]

Ransack, on 29 May 2013 - 04:41 AM, said:

LRM's are a big frikkin joke now unless you are boating them. You guys are going to have to figure out a way to make a single rack or two viable. I understand that Mechs with multiple large racks of LRMS can be over powered. But when you are trying to provide fire support in something that is not capable of boating, you are screwed at the end. If you are going to continually nerf the hell out of the damage, at least give us a heat break. How you can up the speed, then nerf the damage to lower than it was before the speed buff, and still call it a gain is beyond me. Right now, LRMS are a sadder joke than at any time that I have seen in this game.

Disagree... if you fly solo and only use 1 or 2 racks they SHOULDN'T be devastating in any way shape or form. LRMs are deisgned as a support weapon.... they should never be treated as an AC20 or other heavy use weapon that could cripple an enemy in a salvo or two. You want effective LRM balance? Play in a group. Take 2 mechs with dual LRM15s and run a light or two spotting... you will have plenty of success. I ran into solo Awesome 8R the other night that ran dual LRM15s and dual SRM6s... he did just fine with the help of an organised team.... again... teamwork is key here... puggin ain't going to do anyone any good anymore when we talk about "balanced" weapons.

If you want to pug that's fine... everyone should be able to play their way... however don't expect good results with LRMs if you plan on running around alone

Edited by HybridTheory, 01 June 2013 - 10:20 AM.

[BlueSanta]

Paul Inouye, on 24 May 2013 - 01:06 PM, said:

Rabble rabble rabble!!

Splash damage was reduced from 1.8m to 0.05m. That's 180cm to 5cm.

CT is taking more damage than the rest of your components why? Because the CT is the largest part of a BattleMech. It's going to take the most hits out of a volley of missiles. The missiles are not told to target any part of a Mech, they're told to get into position and follow that path from start to finish. If your target turns their torso 90 degrees from incoming missiles, they're going to lose an arm before they get cored.

Streaks are still broken, Paul. I'll keep bugging you until you and your team finally do something about them. You aren't taking this problem seriously enough. I don't believe that your team plays this game enough to truly know what is going on. You look at your numbers and say, they are working as intended, just because the math adds up. Well, I'm here to tell you, what is happening in game is not right.

To remind you:
Change how they target. They are targeting points too close to the CT.
or
Eliminate them from the game until you can implement them properly.