20 replies to this topic

[ShinVector]

It took me 2 mins to find this odd problem PGI.
I am not sure whether this happens in the live game yet but I feel sad for the Commandos in testing ground.

Video 1: SSRMS hits Commando CT 100%


Video 2: SSRMS hits Commando REAR CT 100%
Also noticed it take more volleys of SSRMS to kill a Commando from the back. That's odd.


Video 3: Jenner given SSRMS resistance passive ability.
It is just me or some of the SSRMs just don't do damage ?? That's odd.

Edited by ShinVector, 24 May 2013 - 11:25 AM.

[Deathlike]

I know there are tweaks in the pipeline to reduce SSRM damage on smaller mechs... but you'd have to wait until they make it official and hope it is fully added to the next patch.

[ShinVector]

Sigh.... I think I won't bother much more after this.

Quote

Hello ShinVector,
I'm not entirely sure what you're trying to report here.
SSRMs home in on the center by design - Training Ground Commando has it rough, but it's his own fault for sitting still.
SSRMs do 1.5 damage per missile, 3 damage total per shot.
So, 3 damage per shot, which does involve splash. When a Mech's different parts are more compact (Kind of like the Jenner) you notice the splash hitting the CT some, a shoulder and the head a bit. That's 3 damage spread very thin, so doesn't result in much damage.
If I'm missing something, you'll have to elucidate for me please.
Regards,
Reppu
Senior GameMaster
MechWarrior® Online™

Quote

Hi Reppu,

There is actually more than one problem shown if you actually watched the videos.

Quoting your own PGI Bryan Ekman:

<quote>
http://mwomercs.com/...vs-38-answered/
Wispsy: At least on certain mechs (Jenner for one) SSRMs only hit the front ct, even if the mech is directly behind you you can die with full back armour. Is there any plans to change this at all considering how quickly they can kill lights right now?
A:[color="#cc0000"] Currently the SSRMs will randomly hit one of 8 bones on a Mech.[/color] The cluster of these bones is generally around the CT area. In addition to a large splash damage effect, and damage transfer – most of the damage is ending up on the CT, even though the missiles are actually hitting at different locations on the mech. It’s not actually a bug, rather a tuning fix to minimize splash damage. This tuning adjustment will go live in the first patch of June. Unfortunately, the fix was a tad late for the 21^st patch.
</quote>

Issue 1:
Please explain that your by design comment Reppu. A per comment by the game designers and as I have seen in actual gameplay. SSRMs aka. Streaks will randomly hit one of the 8 locations on a mech. Head, side Torso, Center Torso, Arms, LEgs.
The video that I had actually shown to you. Shows that the Streak ONLY hitting Center Torso on the Commando. That is not suppose to happen even on the stationary mech. Please educate me if there is a special rule for Commandos.

Issue 2:
It takes 12 Streaks to kill a Commando from the front.
It takes 38 Streaks to kill a Commando from the back.
Since there Streak targeting is currently bugged and it is only CT on the Commando.
Explain how is this work to be when there is suppose to be even more Armour on the front of the Commando than the back of the Commando. I doubt the commando stores AMMO in the CT for an Ammo Explosion to happen.

Issue 3:
For the Jenner issue.
I assume that mech health percentage represents that whole health.
Each volley from streaks from the Raven does 1-3% damage on a Jenner.

At the 21sec, 38secs and 42 sec point in the video Streaks hits do 0% damage.
Explain that.

Regards
ShinVector

[l33tworks]

Hang in there buddy, I know how you feel. Its like talking to a wall sometimes. Its as if you could have said anything even blah blah fairies and the community response would be exactly the same right?

Your not the only one having this issue. I have commented on almost exactly this in the past. Streaks doing weird damage, or no damage. It also seems to be pot luck because some people appear to be finding amazingly easy and register hits all the time when I watch their videos.


Have a look at the OP post of this thread, and this guys streaks. TI didn't see any of the shots not register. Very strange.

Heres a post I made

http://mwomercs.com/...96#entry2353296

And Go to page 1 for OPs video i was talking about

Also there are plenty of threads on hit registration if you look around.

Edited by l33tworks, 25 May 2013 - 12:28 AM.

[Lefteye Falconeer]

This is ridiculous. After all the patches and statements, we still have streaks that NEVER go for legs or arms. Never.

"Currently the SSRMs will randomly hit one of 8 bones on a Mech"

Really, Bryan? Are you sure? Sure sure?

[l33tworks]

Lefteye, on 25 May 2013 - 02:21 AM, said:

This is ridiculous. After all the patches and statements, we still have streaks that NEVER go for legs or arms. Never.

"Currently the SSRMs will randomly hit one of 8 bones on a Mech"

Really, Bryan? Are you sure? Sure sure?

Actually my streaks go all over the place. They fire off in wildly spread out patterns hit all over the enemy mech and the whole enemy paper doll lights up when I hit them even at 30 meters or so away.

So what you are saying is totally false

Edited by l33tworks, 25 May 2013 - 04:31 AM.

[Lefteye Falconeer]

You mean "what the video is showing is totally false, so the video must be a doctored fake", right? Cause we aren't saying anything, just showing a video that speaks for us.

[StalaggtIKE]

I thought it was common knowledge that the Training Grounds does not properly reflect the multiplayer in-game engine. This should be sorted to avoid future confusion.

Edited by StalaggtIKE, 25 May 2013 - 07:50 AM.

[Krzysztof z Bagien]

Thomas said somewhere else that Streaks target one of FIVE spots on a mech (CT, shoulders, hips; that seems to be correct from what I can see in game). Brians says it's eight. I guess nobody knows exactly what is intended behavior of SSRMs and how to make it right.
I'm also starting to think that it would be easier to get rid of the Streaks altogether and start from the scratch than fix them in their current form.

Edit: due to the fact that SSRMs often 'orbit' around a mech without hitting it I say they should be called "Streak Short Range Ferret Launchers" from now on.

Edited by Krzysztof z Bagien, 25 May 2013 - 08:02 AM.

[l33tworks]

Lefteye, on 25 May 2013 - 07:27 AM, said:

You mean "what the video is showing is totally false, so the video must be a doctored fake", right? Cause we aren't saying anything, just showing a video that speaks for us.

Maybe its just some particular mech combinations and it varies from person to person. When I use them they hit other parts of the mech more often than they hit the CT so to say what you said " We still have streaks that never got for the arms or legs. NEVER" couldn't be further form the truth.

Even at point blank range they hit from head to toe

Edited by l33tworks, 26 May 2013 - 02:12 AM.

[ShinVector]

StalaggtIKE, on 25 May 2013 - 07:47 AM, said:

I thought it was common knowledge that the Training Grounds does not properly reflect the multiplayer in-game engine. This should be sorted to avoid future confusion.

Please show me from the developers stating this. It is the same engine. The few differences is no lag, stock mechs and stationary mechs. The last hotfix patch obviously affect the Training Ground splash damage as well. It used to hit all over the Commando. Now it only shows it is hitting the CT only.

l33tworks, on 26 May 2013 - 02:04 AM, said:

Maybe its just some particular mech combinations and it varies from person to person. When I use them they hit other parts of the mech more often than they hit the CT so to say what you said " We still have streaks that never got for the arms or legs. NEVER" couldn't be further form the truth.

Even at point blank range they hit from head to toe

Yes. It varies and the problem mostly affects the small light mechs. Commando gets it the worst.
I do not like the way PGI support tries to throw a smoke bomb at me and telling me that is that way it is suppose to be.
That is BS and I have not seen a reply since my last email above.

I will not pursue... I have done my job as a 'paying' beta tester. LOL.

Edited by ShinVector, 26 May 2013 - 07:32 PM.

[ShinVector]

Conclusion

The issue 2 bug was confirmed.
The response for Issue 1 and Issue 3 I still find questionable but I have given my feedback and suggestions for PGI QA look into...

My task is done.



Final updates from me:

Quote

Hello ShinVector,
I watched the videos multiple times - wasn't seeing any issues. The only one that a QA tester noticed was perhaps issue #2.
Issue 1: Brian's response to the Q&A clarifies this. Those "8 bones" are clustered near the center torso, hence the missiles are heading towards that CT as designed. Those 8 bones aren't one of the 8 locations you stated.
I just tried this quickly in a training ground - most of the damage does go to the Commando CT, however some does end up going elsewhere. A lot has to do with the flight path of those missiles. The splash damage fix should help this significantly.
Issue 2: This is something we both noticed - through testing it seems that this isn't an issue with the Commando. What seems to be happening is that damage to the rear CT is only the splash damage. The impact damage from the missiles isn't applying. Good catch! We'll do some more testing with it.
Issue 3: It's an issue with the paperdoll displaying the damage, not SSRMs. The paperdoll occasionally fails to update properly - a known issue.

Regards,
Reppu
Senior GameMaster
MechWarrior® Online™

Quote

Hi Reppu,

Thanks for the reply.

Issue 1: Well they should re-look into the Commando mech as it is seems to be the only mech having this problem.
My understanding is that Streaks should not hit only CT on any mech but randomly on the various compartments. If its hits CT only. It becomes too powerful.
That is my feedback.

Issue 2: Good to know that you found a problem.

Issue 3: I am not so sure about your finding.
It could be something similar to issue 2 where the impact damage is just isn't applying at times.

Issue 3 video the Jenner
@20s, 2 missiles launched. Hit seen Jenner from 93% goes to 92%.
@21s, 2 missiles launched. Hit seen but Jenner health remains at 92%.
@23s, 2 missiles launched. Hit seen Jenner from 92% goes to 91%.

If it was an update problem. I would expect the health to go down to 90% but since we don't actually see the hit point values. It is hard to tell.
Perhaps PGI should include the hit point values so, we can 'Help' PGI verify things properly.

My main aim in sending my feedback to assist in making this game more balanced. Testing ground helps us verify things a lot.
Hope PGI would take in my suggestion for the hitpoint values to be visible in testing grounds.


Regards
ShinVector

[Deathlike]

Considering there are going to be Streak changes in the upcoming patch (6/4), one would hope they don't screw this up. Chances are though that the splash bug probably won't be fixed in the next patch (unless, this is happening after the hotfix that supposedly nerfed splash to "nothing").

[Thorqemada]

A. What streaks hit depends on the direction of impact, if you can launch them onto a standing target from the front there is a higher chance to hit the CT than from the left or right side.

B. Testing Ground and Testing Ground Mechs do not reflect life environment behavior very well as they have no quriks and bonusses applied, dont move, have low stock armor values etc.

C. Never EVER Trust Testing Ground Results !!!

Edited by Thorqemada, 02 June 2013 - 09:56 AM.

[Kmieciu]

"Testing Ground Mechs do not reflect life environment behavior" yet you can take Gauss+2xERPPC and one-shot that Commando on the testing grounds. 15+2x10> 16 (armor) + 16 (internal hp). Take 3xPPC and you will not be able to do so.

[ShinVector]

Thorqemada, on 02 June 2013 - 09:56 AM, said:

A. What streaks hit depends on the direction of impact, if you can launch them onto a standing target from the front there is a higher chance to hit the CT than from the left or right side.

B. Testing Ground and Testing Ground Mechs do not reflect life environment behavior very well as they have no quriks and bonusses applied, dont move, have low stock armor values etc.

C. Never EVER Trust Testing Ground Results !!!

A. What are you trying to say dude... You made the game.. This is how it suppose to be based on TT ?? Guess what Streaks should not hit one part of a mech regardless of size, it is suppose to hit the conpartments randomly. I think they have a problems coding it right.
They messed around with the splash damage in the past and it made things worst. Missiles now do much much more damage compare to their direct fire counter parts due to splash.
To make things more balance regardless of class of mech.. They have to fix it.
As of now.. Direct fire light has a big disadvantage versus a streak light. They need to eliminate the splash damage problem.

B. Yes.. They are stock mechs... We know their armour values. Nothing in the game is suppose increases damage or armour. The tests are valid.

C. Yeah... Sure... What else do I have to go on ? Online with all the LAG and what not ?

Kmieciu, on 03 June 2013 - 03:16 AM, said:

"Testing Ground Mechs do not reflect life environment behavior" yet you can take Gauss+2xERPPC and one-shot that Commando on the testing grounds. 15+2x10> 16 (armor) + 16 (internal hp). Take 3xPPC and you will not be able to do so.

Guass + 2 ERPPC = 15 + 2x10 = 35 Damage ----- 33 < 35 = Commando dies

3x PPC = 3x10 = 30 Damage. ---- 33 > 30 = Commando lives.

I do not get your point. The damage is not equal.

With 35 damage you can 1 shot any mech in the game, regardless of armour value the enemy mech. Guess where is the spot ? I believe you know.

Edited by ShinVector, 04 June 2013 - 02:01 AM.

[ShinVector]

Deathlike, on 01 June 2013 - 03:18 PM, said:

Considering there are going to be Streak changes in the upcoming patch (6/4), one would hope they don't screw this up. Chances are though that the splash bug probably won't be fixed in the next patch (unless, this is happening after the hotfix that supposedly nerfed splash to "nothing").

Base on PGI's comments.. The splash damage to the rear is still there but the impact damage is not taking effects.
This should explain why seems Spiders that are running around don't seem to take damage from Streaks.

[Krzysztof z Bagien]

ShinVector, on 04 June 2013 - 01:57 AM, said:

Guass + 2 ERPPC = 15 + 2x10 = 35 Damage ----- 33 < 35 = Commando dies

3x PPC = 3x10 = 30 Damage. ---- 33 > 30 = Commando lives.

I do not get your point. The damage is not equal.

With 35 damage you can 1 shot any mech in the game, regardless of armour value the enemy mech. Guess where is the spot ? I believe you know.

I belive he means that it shows that testing grounds are no different from normal game.
When shooting stock Commando's CT from the front you have to deal at least 32 points of damage to kill it (16 armour + 16 internal). Now: Gauss + 2ERPPC deal 35 points of damage = kill (as you would expect). 3xERPPC deal 30 points of damage, so you can't core that Commando's CT (you lack 2 points of damage, again, as expected). That means testing grounds results are actually pretty acurate and that 35 damage alpha strike in testing grounds does at least 32 points of damage (so if there's some difference from normal game it's lower than 8.57%), while 30 damage alpha does less than 32 (inaccuracy lower than 6.67%).
Conclusion: testing grounds results ARE accurate, despite devs saying otherwise.

Edit: you can also take ERPPC and large laser to testing grounds. Stock Commando's leg has 16 armour + 12 internal = 28 total HP. 3 shots from LL do 27 damage and, as you would expect, can't destroy that leg. One shot from ERPPC and two shots from LL do 28 damage, so that would mean destroyed leg and no damage transferred to side torso. And that is what actually happens.

Edited by Krzysztof z Bagien, 04 June 2013 - 02:50 AM.

[Inkarnus]

@ OP do that again with movement and stuff and you will see its not as you think
it goes in the direction yes but not always hits the center because you wont
be standing always perfectly infront of the target
and Testing grounds for some odd reasons unequals real match
since i can still core most mechs there with LRMs on center torso wich
isnt the case atm anyways

Edited by Inkarnus, 04 June 2013 - 02:43 AM.

[ShinVector]

Krzysztof z Bagien, on 04 June 2013 - 02:33 AM, said:

I belive he means that it shows that testing grounds are no different from normal game.

When shooting stock Commando's CT from the front you have to deal at least 32 points of damage to kill it (16 armour + 16 internal). Now: Gauss + 2ERPPC deal 35 points of damage = kill (as you would expect). 3xERPPC deal 30 points of damage, so you can't core that Commando's CT (you lack 2 points of damage, again, as expected). That means testing grounds results are actually pretty acurate and that 35 damage alpha strike in testing grounds does at least 32 points of damage (so if there's some difference from normal game it's lower than 8.57%), while 30 damage alpha does less than 32 (inaccuracy lower than 6.67%).

Conclusion: testing grounds results ARE accurate, despite devs saying otherwise.

Edit: you can also take ERPPC and large laser to testing grounds. Stock Commando's leg has 16 armour + 12 internal = 28 total HP. 3 shots from LL do 27 damage and, as you would expect, can't destroy that leg. One shot from ERPPC and two shots from LL do 28 damage, so that would mean destroyed leg and no damage transferred to side torso. And that is what actually happens.

Noted. I believe most the direct fire weapons are accurate but we lack the hitpoint values to verify unfortunately.

I would certainly like to double check, PGI's testing....

Inkarnus, on 04 June 2013 - 02:39 AM, said:

@ OP do that again with movement and stuff and you will see its not as you think

it goes in the direction yes but not always hits the center because you wont

be standing always perfectly infront of the target

and Testing grounds for some odd reasons unequals real match

since i can still core most mechs there with LRMs on center torso wich

isnt the case atm anyways

OMG.. This again.. Dude.. I have been playing this game since closed BETA. I am a light pilot.. I know that and I don't even pilot Commandos.

You take the same Streak SRM and go fire it at the bigger mech...
What happens ??? It goes all over the place on the bigger mech..

The trade off for 100% hit guided missile damage is the damage get spread ALL OVER THE MECH... That is the point.
Currently only bigger mech gets this advantage not the smaller mechs and splash damage makes it worst...
Meanwhile PGI keeps throw smoke bombs on the issue.

My expectation is Streaks should hit light mechs all over like bigger mechs but since they are so, small and fast.
Streaks will tend to miss due obstacles and high speed move causing the Streaks to hit other things.

Now... You got to read the Subject of the thread.. In no way.. was I talking about LRMs.

There is nothing odd about testing grounds. It is the norm without any bonuses or LAG.
If this game was on LAN... It would be very similar to testing grounds...

And ton tons of mechs would straight out and die due to Head shots...