39 replies to this topic

[MustrumRidcully]

Quote

How come the AC20s do more DMG then 4PPC and a Gauss?

I don't know why this mwould happen.

4 PPC and a Gauss deal 55 damage at 540m range.

2 AC/20 deal 40 damage at 270m range and 20 at 540m range.

Is it bad math?

Edited by MustrumRidcully, 24 May 2013 - 10:49 AM.

[Svalfangr]

SIGH

ITT: A mad kid who doesnt understand game damage mechanics and instead of learning them cries OP

[Ngamok]

Well like the above poster said, the AC/20 is a 20 damage big caliber tank cannon.

PPCs each do 10 damage and a Guass does 15 damage. Not sure how 2xAC/20 does more damage than 4xPPC + 1xGuass.

[Monky]

Are you using 4 PPC's and a Gauss at close range? Sub 90 meters, the PPC will do less damage, down to 0 at 0 meters. It's hard to understand the case where you saw this happen.

You're saying your stalker got cored from the front with 2 2xAC20 volleys?

[LonestarrSB]

dual ac/20 jagers are jump builds. I run a double Gauss. Not only do you get great dmg, you also get a hell of a lot more range. Not to mention you also get more ammo per ton.

[Sheraf]

AC 20 is the next overpower thing after LRM nerf yet again, time for a nerf?

[Yanlowen Cage]

MustrumRidcully, on 24 May 2013 - 10:46 AM, said:

I don't know why this mwould happen.

4 PPC and a Gauss deal 55 damage at 540m range.

2 AC/20 deal 40 damage at 270m range and 20 at 540m range.

Is it bad math?

Ac20 shouldn't do damage beyond 270. Another example of messed up mechanics in this game. I think the idea was that pgi thought peeps would be upset if they got smashed b4 they got into range with the ac20 so the double and even triple ranges. Wrong, the counter to ac20 IS to stay out of it,'s range. Whoops that is another well intended idea that went horribly wrong.

[MustrumRidcully]

Yanlowen Cage, on 24 May 2013 - 12:05 PM, said:

Ac20 shouldn't do damage beyond 270. Another example of messed up mechanics in this game. I think the idea was that pgi thought peeps would be upset if they got smashed b4 they got into range with the ac20 so the double and even triple ranges. Wrong, the counter to ac20 IS to stay out of it,'s range. Whoops that is another well intended idea that went horribly wrong.

There are actually optional rules for extreme range that allow even AC/20s to shoot beyond 270m.

But fine, if the AC/20 doesn't get to shoot beyond 270m, then the Gauss doesn'T get to shoot beyond 660m. The LRM should have what, 800m range? The Medium Laser also stops at 270m.

[Lorcan Lladd]

The AC/20 is relatively well balanced; it's the only effective brawling weapon in MWO at the moment, besides, perhaps, Streak SRMs.

Now, compared to builds with multiple Gauss Rifles, AC/20s or PPCs, your Stalker will never be competitive due to the mismatched weapon ranges and damage levels.
Your build has an effective range of 0-540m for the Medium Lasers and you must track the target for 0.75 second to deal 20-10 concentrated damage with them; 180-1000m for LRMs which take up to four seconds to reach a target and 0-270m for the Streak SRMs.

Its maximum damage potential of 47 (plus missile splash damage) is only achieved within 180-270m; a brief window of opportunity encompassing 90m, and unless you can burn the enemy's center torso for the full Medium Laser duration - a feat most dependant on the incompetence of the enemy rather than the competence of the pilot - your Stalker will spread damage a lot more than a pure AC/20, Gauss Rifle or PPC boat would.

These weapons do not deal more damage than stated, unlike missiles which benefit from some splash damage, but they are more proficient at focusing their damage potential on specific 'Mech locations than your selection of weapons is.
For example, a 'Mech with four PPCs could achieve 40 points of focused damage within 90-650m far more easily, whereas a 'Mech with a pair of AC/20s could do the same within 0-270m.

Most importantly, these 'Mechs could destroy a cockpit with a single salvo.
Don't use 'balanced' builds with multiple disparate effective ranges, especially not missiles; at the very least, you'll lose 25-50% of your damage potential at the extreme ends of your range profile.

Edited by Lorcan Lladd, 24 May 2013 - 12:16 PM.

[Alistair Winter]

Some builds are a lot easier to get kills with. The AC40 Jager is one of them. Some people like to pretend otherwise. Pay no attention to them, pay attention to the AC40 Jagers you see in a game, and note their kills and damage compared to other mechs. Pay special attention in matches where one team has 2 or 3 AC40 Jagers. The proof is in the pudding, there's no need to discuss the matter.

Anyway, if you want advice on how to play a Stalker, you generally want it to do so much damage at range that no one is able to get close, OR do so much damage up close that people don't want to come near you. Without arms and with low speed, you're rarely able dictate where the fight happens, you need to use your firepower to control the action. I can see why you're having trouble with AC40 Jagers with that build, as you have no chance to damage them significantly from a distance, and they do much more damage than you up close. Either invest in more long range weaponry, like combining LRMs with Large Lasers, so you can take out the Jagers from afar, or invest in more short range weaponry, medium lasers and SRMs, so you can take out their squishy side torsos.

Also, make sure that you have enough front armour, not too much rear armour.

[Gallowglas]

LordNIcon, on 24 May 2013 - 12:24 PM, said:

Ive had my Misery sold

/head asplode

[Ngamok]

LordNIcon, on 24 May 2013 - 12:24 PM, said:

Thank you for the constructive critic and advice - Its a learning curve on the dmg mechanics of mwo. Ive read allot and just compared weapon impact to do damage received..

I dont want to build a LRM Boat since that one is a hardcase for Light mechs to stomp you.

Since the STK has a very hard Turninpoint and degree. The thing i find in ac20s is that dmg is somehow splashed at the impact reagon and if not does more dmg then stated.. See for you self... Ive tryed a AC20 build and have to say its not for me and kind of unfair to the oposite player... I know i should not give a danggg. But since I want to play with Tactics and not Bruteforce - I would love a decent Simulation -

Ive had my Misery sold becouse i could not handle the Heat it generated and made me a target of all kinds of mechs... I know try something else and so on... But that was one of the mechs that came close to burst dmg but somehow not.... With the Crit.. The AC20s have -- Ive seen PPL Headshotted out of the Cockpit and Assaultmechs 2-3 Killed with no big effort by two JGR6-DD AC20 Builds with minimal DMG...

Thats what i think something is wrong or misscalculated. AC20s do more DMG then stated...

Little hint, the cockpit to those JagerMechs is right int he middle of the CT. Aim there and you too can head shot them.

[Lykaon]

Svalfangr, on 24 May 2013 - 10:55 AM, said:

SIGH

ITT: A mad kid who doesnt understand game damage mechanics and instead of learning them cries OP

He has 6 posts at the time I write this.I will assume that this means he is a NEW player and lacks experience in gameplay.

So he posted a question based on his observations.

Instead of <figurativley> bitting his head off for asking how about you provide some usefull feedback like maybe...

Two vollies of twin AC20 would inflict 80 damage. If your Stalker has more than 80 armor on it's front CT then you may have been struck by a second or even third enemy during your fight with the Jaeger.It is pretty easy to develope tunnel vision when you are in a close quarters fight so keep in mind the need to remain spacially aware of pretty much everything.

Also,I seem to remember a post back in closed beta that discussed the impact area of a projectile.If someone else has the time to dig it up I would appreciate it.But,Back on topic I believe that projectiles have a surface are of an impact zone the is something like .25m diameter IF someone has more precise data please feel free to share.

[ManyHeatsinks]

Svalfangr, on 24 May 2013 - 10:55 AM, said:

SIGH

ITT: A mad kid who doesnt understand game damage mechanics and instead of learning them cries OP

Says the mad kid.

[Corvus Antaka]

cause it only has a 270m range?

[Edson Drake]

He. Sold. Misery.

No further comment required. OMG.

[TurinAlexander]

I've been using dual AC/20s in my K2 since long before open beta, and there is one thing that it is not, and that is overpowered. There is nothing easy about one shotting a heavy or light with dual AC/20s. It only works if you can manage a headshot, something that takes far more skill than people that don't have the skill for it realize.

That aside, it's a very specific and limited build. You can't hold more than 42 rounds of ammo without sacrificing armor or speed, two things you do not want to sacrifice on a build that requires you to get within 300 meters to be effective. If you run out of ammo, your'e done. You also have to sacrifice having an AMS, because you just don't have the weight to fit it in. In short, it's a very powerful build that requires skill to use effectively and is severly limited by weight issues.

Edited by TurinAlexander, 24 May 2013 - 04:23 PM.

[TheArcher]

First are general thoughts:

Make sure to travel with a group. If a good Stalker fights a good JM, the Stalker should win more than half the time, assuming neither gets a lucky shot. But when the Stalker wins, it'll be seriously damaged. With teammates, the Stalker+friends will take the JM down in half the time, or scare him off outright. (Exposing a nice, barely-armored back.)

Learn to block: turn one of your arms to the JM and hope he hits it instead of your torso. (If you ever get a Misery again, block with your right side, protecting your Ballistic weapon.)

Then there is the numbers standpoint:

A 2xAC20 build yields 10 points of damage per second (DPS) within 270m, 3 points of heat per second (HPS), and 34 tons, 6 of which are ammo. The close range really helps opponents to damage this mech.

A 4xPPC build yields 13.33 DPS with 90-540m range, but 10.7 HPS. Since they weigh 28 tons, the heat can be partially offset by mounting extra heat sinks, lowering it to 9.9 HPS or less.

A 4xAC2 build yields 16 DPS, with 720m range, 8 HPS, and 30-32 tons, 6-8 of which are ammo. The far end of the range is only useful if your target is stationary.

The higher DPS of the PPC and AC2 builds might make you think they are more overpowered than the AC20 build. However, the higher HPS of the PPC and AC2 builds mean they won't be able to sustain their DPS for as long as the AC20 build. So it seems like they end up being equal.

Edited by TheArcher, 25 May 2013 - 06:49 AM.

[Kaspirikay]

>this thread
>my sides.jpg

[Max Liao]

MustrumRidcully, on 24 May 2013 - 12:06 PM, said:

There are actually optional rules for extreme range that allow even AC/20s to shoot beyond 270m.

But fine, if the AC/20 doesn't get to shoot beyond 270m, then the Gauss doesn'T get to shoot beyond 660m. The LRM should have what, 800m range? The Medium Laser also stops at 270m.

Yes. This.