39 replies to this topic

[Sam Slade]

Lykaon, on 24 May 2013 - 03:37 PM, said:

Also,I seem to remember a post back in closed beta that discussed the impact area of a projectile.If someone else has the time to dig it up I would appreciate it.But,Back on topic I believe that projectiles have a surface are of an impact zone the is something like .25m diameter IF someone has more precise data please feel free to share.

yep, 0.25. They changed the Gauss and the PPC/ERPPC to have the same impact profile due to the headshot bonanza that 2xERPPCs and a Gauss caused with an impact value of 0.

Though I do miss my Atlas o' Doom it is a far better way to address the damage issues... headshotting regularly at 700m was just plain silly.

Edited by Sam Slade, 24 May 2013 - 08:57 PM.

[Matthew Ace]

It's a bit silly to complain that 2x AC20 is OP when armor is doubled, even in consideration towards the ability to aim - but that's my opinion.

Imagine if AC20 did what 2x AC20 in-game does; I'm pretty sure a lot more players would fear the HBK-4G stock.

Before anyone says I'm pro-cheesebuild, I run a Jager with AC10, AC2, and UAC5 with good results.

Edited by Matthew Ace, 24 May 2013 - 09:03 PM.

[DocBach]

Being hit by an AC/20 should rock your world hard. I'd like to see the damage actually boosted, but increase reload rate and shorten the range drop-off. It should be the absolute king of close range.

[p00k]

LordNIcon, on 24 May 2013 - 12:24 PM, said:

Ive had my Misery sold

BAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

[Snailio]

[Victor Morson]

Every 'mech that can sport dual AC/20s is a serious glass cannon. Against an organized team they only last a couple seconds, thanks to huge side torsos and heads on the Jagger and Cat. They're popular due to sucker punching people in PUG games but unusable if there's even a 4 man involved (barring some luck and timing). If we ever get advance-warning on what map we're hitting, I might see them usable as a gimmick in organized play, but right now the risk that you'll get Alpine or something is too high to warrant it.

The AC/20 is actually a really good gun for a lot of reasons, held back by the lack of really good delivery platforms.

If a 75 - 100 tonner is introduced that can dual mount AC/20s, you will see this gun come back in a very strong way. Effectively the gun isn't the problem but rather, the 'mechs it can be mounted on.*

* Same goes for the Ultra. Minute we can assault that can boat 4 of them, the Ultra AC will crush the battlefield. Like the AC/20 'mechs, UAC designs that mount 3 tend to be fairly lacking in durability due to their lighter weights. Mounting less than three leaves you with a high chance of "running dry" too quickly, too.

PS: I forgot to mention that Seismic Sensors will pick these guys up before they're even in effective range now. So the days of the sneaky AC/20 Jagger are numbered, badly.

Edited by Victor Morson, 24 May 2013 - 11:12 PM.

[Lykaon]

Here is another tip for the new assault mech pilot.

If you are facing off against an AC20 Jaeger and get hit square in the CT twice you need to work on rotating your mech's torso anticipating when the next salvo is going to be fired.

When you take the hit quickly glance at your armor status and note where you took the hit.You obviously do not want to take a hit there again so be sure that damaged location is not facing the AC20s 3.5 seconds after the first hit.

If you do not learn to rotate your mech's body to disperse the damage you are not using several tons of armor that should be protecting your chassis.When done correctly you will see a dramatic increase in your survival time.

[Xeven]

Lykaon, on 24 May 2013 - 11:15 PM, said:

Here is another tip for the new assault mech pilot.

If you are facing off against an AC20 Jaeger and get hit square in the CT twice you need to work on rotating your mech's torso anticipating when the next salvo is going to be fired.

When you take the hit quickly glance at your armor status and note where you took the hit.You obviously do not want to take a hit there again so be sure that damaged location is not facing the AC20s 3.5 seconds after the first hit.

If you do not learn to rotate your mech's body to disperse the damage you are not using several tons of armor that should be protecting your chassis.When done correctly you will see a dramatic increase in your survival time.

Heh, shame you sold Misery. I think it is best Mech currently in the game. Don't use XL engines and use case in Ammo or Gauss laden torso and you wont pop so fast.

[Lykaon]

LordNIcon, on 25 May 2013 - 12:59 AM, said:

To compare the Gauss and the AC20 the Gauss has the higher handycap.

On newer Mechs were the Weaponloadout is visible - Advanced Pilots tend to focus that weapon - Why not? It has a probability of 90% to Explode - Easy Kill to a Misery - Heavy DMG to a Heavymetal and so on....

To compensate for such High DMG output the Weapon should have a Limiter! The Short range is not one of them!

- Add Weapon Jamming - or - Weapon Exploding - Somekind of Limiter....

PPC Users have to fight the Heat 10DMG
Gauss Users have to fight the Weapon not Exploding 15DMG
U/AC5 Users have to fight against Weapon Jamming
AC20 Users Maxrange 810m - http://mwo.gamepedia.com/Autocannon_20 - Nothing at all...
Even LRM Users have a Range Fix 1000m - 180m - after that LRM useless...
SRM - SSRM usefull at 270m Range - after that useless - on the downside of SSRMs ECM makes it even more useless ^^
Large Lazer and up require a huge Heat Management if shot wrong - Overheat ^^

So even the basic Weapons have a limiter....

P.S. Thanks again to all for the advice - and to the Misery - Faceplam my self... - That was a Rage disition but i buy the Mechs to do and have a primary goal... - Help the Devs. to make the Game better!

Ill explain the Story behind the Misery one day.

Limiters for an AC20 are lowest ammo count per ton of any ammo dependent weapon,highest heat per shot of any ballistic weapon,shortest range of any Autocannon,slowest projectile speed of any autocannon,14 tons of mass and 10 critical spaces needed.

The 10 criticals are actually a very big deal.

1) AC20s are large weapons nearly filling the entire location they are mounted in resulting in an easy to disable weapon.

2) There are currently few mechs that can effectivley mount twin AC20s.Jaegermechs and the Catapult K2 being the two that can effectivley use dual AC20s.

3) AC20 in the side torsos means no XL engines so versitility in loadouts is a limiting factor.

4) To mount an AC20 into a mech's arm requires the removal of the lower arm actuator.Removing the lower arm actuator reduces the lateral movement range of the arm reticule resulting in a reduced arc of fire.

Edited by Lykaon, 25 May 2013 - 01:18 AM.

[Oderint dum Metuant]

I guess the 2 AC 20's do more damage because those PPC's are just unreliable in hit registration......................................

[MustrumRidcully]

DocBach, on 24 May 2013 - 09:22 PM, said:

Being hit by an AC/20 should rock your world hard. I'd like to see the damage actually boosted, but increase reload rate and shorten the range drop-off. It should be the absolute king of close range.

I love my Dual AC/20s, but more alpha damage sounds like a bad idea for the game. You can't exaclty play cover-sniper at 270m range, but surprising someone with a high alpha strike is always an advantage.

Of course, surprises with anything but PPCs or LRMs might be a thing of the past with Seismic Sensors...

[Ralgas]

Get adv sesmic sensors
Face anything sneaking up on you
????
Profit

[MustrumRidcully]

LordNIcon, on 25 May 2013 - 12:59 AM, said:

To compare the Gauss and the AC20 the Gauss has the higher handycap.

On newer Mechs were the Weaponloadout is visible - Advanced Pilots tend to focus that weapon - Why not? It has a probability of 90% to Explode - Easy Kill to a Misery - Heavy DMG to a Heavymetal and so on....

To compensate for such High DMG output the Weapon should have a Limiter! The Short range is not one of them!

- Add Weapon Jamming - or - Weapon Exploding - Somekind of Limiter....

PPC Users have to fight the Heat 10DMG
Gauss Users have to fight the Weapon not Exploding 15DMG
U/AC5 Users have to fight against Weapon Jamming
AC20 Users Maxrange 810m - http://mwo.gamepedia.com/Autocannon_20 - Nothing at all...
Even LRM Users have a Range Fix 1000m - 180m - after that LRM useless...
SRM - SSRM usefull at 270m Range - after that useless - on the downside of SSRMs ECM makes it even more useless ^^
Large Lazer and up require a huge Heat Management if shot wrong - Overheat ^^

So even the basic Weapons have a limiter....

P.S. Thanks again to all for the advice - and to the Misery - Faceplam my self... - That was a Rage disition but i buy the Mechs to do and have a primary goal... - Help the Devs. to make the Game better!

Ill explain the Story behind the Misery one day.

I find that the SRM (and the LBX, too, I believe) are the only wepons that don't benefit from increased ranges quite ridicilous... Of course, both also suffer from horrible spread. The LBX can't even use its listed range in any effective manner.

But you understand that "max range" means "at this point an forward, the weapon deals 0 damage")? A AC/20 at 540m range deals 10 damage. The same damage a PPC deals. The PPC has half the weight, and needs no ammo. At 810m, the PPC still deals 5 damage and the AC/20 deals 0.
Shooting at anything beyond 500m range is extremely wasteful (and due to the low projectile speed, also pretty often a complete miss.)

Just buy yourself a K2 or a Jagermech and try it out.

Edited by MustrumRidcully, 25 May 2013 - 02:10 AM.

[Solomon Ward]

Dual AC/20 hits like a truck

but

they have to get close and their torso section is massive.

Kudos to them brawling in a Sniper world.

[Svalfangr]

Lykaon, on 24 May 2013 - 03:37 PM, said:

He has 6 posts at the time I write this.I will assume that this means he is a NEW player and lacks experience in gameplay.

So he posted a question based on his observations.

Instead of <figurativley> bitting his head off for asking how about you provide some usefull feedback like maybe...

Two vollies of twin AC20 would inflict 80 damage. If your Stalker has more than 80 armor on it's front CT then you may have been struck by a second or even third enemy during your fight with the Jaeger.It is pretty easy to develope tunnel vision when you are in a close quarters fight so keep in mind the need to remain spacially aware of pretty much everything.

Also,I seem to remember a post back in closed beta that discussed the impact area of a projectile.If someone else has the time to dig it up I would appreciate it.But,Back on topic I believe that projectiles have a surface are of an impact zone the is something like .25m diameter IF someone has more precise data please feel free to share.

Funny how many likes my post has and how yours has none.

There is in fact a new players forum and instead of going there and asking about mechanics he came he and stated false information.

People like that are the ones who ruin a games balance.

p00k, on 24 May 2013 - 10:38 PM, said:

BAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

[TheArcher]

Svalfangr, on 25 May 2013 - 06:29 AM, said:

There is in fact a new players forum and instead of going there and asking about mechanics he came he and stated false information.

People like that are the ones who ruin a games balance.

So he made a mistake. No one has agreed with him, in terms of his opinion that 2xAC20 is OP. The Devs shouldn't be changing the game based on that one opinion.

Instead of politely informing him of the mistakes, several have laughed in his face. Which is better, helping him be a better forum member and pilot, or encouraging him to leave MWO? I know I want a large pool of good teammates / opponents. I suspect PGI wants as many customers as possible.

Who would you rather spend time with? Someone who laughs in your face when you screw up, or someone who just corrects you?

Edited by TheArcher, 25 May 2013 - 07:57 AM.

[Kanjejou]

Ac20 is OP versus medium and slow heavies since they have pretty weak armor are easy to hit and are slow...

Assault can easily rip a dual AC20 apart and light woin't let them get touched by it....

Since I only own medium mech I fear AC20 more than most build even an atlas is ok for me but its because of my mech weakness to very easy high alpha damages. not because its OP.

My friend in stalker highlander and atlas fear LRM storm something I most of the time don't care about because I rarely get hit.

Edited by Kanjejou, 25 May 2013 - 08:34 AM.

[Alistair Winter]

Svalfangr, on 25 May 2013 - 06:29 AM, said:

Funny how many likes my post has and how yours has none.

Are you serious? Is this what this forum has become?

[Liberator]

TheArcher, on 25 May 2013 - 07:32 AM, said:

So he made a mistake. No one has agreed with him, in terms of his opinion that 2xAC20 is OP. The Devs shouldn't be changing the game based on that one opinion.

Instead of politely informing him of the mistakes, several have laughed in his face. Which is better, helping him be a better forum member and pilot, or encouraging him to leave MWO? I know I want a large pool of good teammates / opponents. I suspect PGI wants as many customers as possible.

Who would you rather spend time with? Someone who laughs in your face when you screw up, or someone who just corrects you?

A forum is a place where everyone is free to express their opinions, and the player in question have learned quite a bit from a balanced torrent of replies; he has learned basic tactics and game mechanics, and he has had bad decisions laughed at, while some opinions sting more than other, you learn from all of them.

There are many characters on a forum, the super elitist who are not afraid to speak their mind, the helpful guides that come with sage advice, and the common bland commenter who agree or disagree.

A forum is really boring if there is just one type of poster, so I embrace the diversity.

[Menetius]

AC/20's actually deal armor-piercing damage at near-point-blank ranges. There have been many times in my CTF-1X where I blast an undamaged Atlas at close range, and the only reason I'm able to kill him is because of the piercing internal damage I did to his CT before melting his remaining armor away with my 5 medium lasers.

Edited by Menetius, 25 May 2013 - 09:46 AM.