38 replies to this topic

[Victor Morson]

Alekzander Smirnoff, on 24 May 2013 - 03:21 PM, said:

By bringing LRM's back to acceptable levels I no longer poke my head out for one second only to have it vaporized by 12 orbs of burning plasmatic death. I don't even think you needed to bump the recycle to 4 seconds but that was nice too.

The AMS change was nice too, makes the incoming missile spam less of a problem for my lance mates and myself!

Keep up the good work!

Except now LRMs are trash again.

Positivity: Terminated. Mission Accomplished!

[Oderint dum Metuant]

Victor Morson, on 25 May 2013 - 12:17 AM, said:

Except now LRMs are trash again.

Positivity: Terminated. Mission Accomplished!

LRM's are not trash again, they just don't ignore vertical mountains as they could before.
LRM's are a support weapon, designed to chew the enemy up, your direct fire friends should be finishing off.

That said, i think they were a bit too drastic on the splash reduction.

Edited by DV McKenna, 25 May 2013 - 01:24 AM.

[Kitane]

DV McKenna, on 25 May 2013 - 01:15 AM, said:

LRM's are not trash again, they just don't ignore vertical mountains as they could before.
LRM's are a support weapon, designed to chew the enemy up, your direct fire friends should be finishing off

And their damage was significantly reduced, errr. fixed. Their damage was just enough with 0.9 per missile (lol) AND splash bug.

Now the splash bug is gone and 0.9 per missile is good enough for stripping paint.

[Waking One]

mike29tw, on 25 May 2013 - 12:04 AM, said:

Thank you for keeping the forum in check. We're now back to normal MWO forum.

There's a difference between people with agendas being idiots (90% of people who enjoy the poptart meta) and people who are generally positive but think those guys are full of **** (me).

Game was better with the LRM buff. They were a bit too strong because of the angle, but the damage was ok, at least you had a reason to use anything but gauss/PPCs.

This thread is nothing but bait.

[MustrumRidcully]

DV McKenna, on 25 May 2013 - 01:15 AM, said:

LRM's are not trash again, they just don't ignore vertical mountains as they could before.

I still think they need to buff horizontal mountains.

[Livewyr]

DV McKenna, on 25 May 2013 - 01:15 AM, said:

LRM's are not trash again, they just don't ignore vertical mountains as they could before.
LRM's are a support weapon, designed to chew the enemy up, your direct fire friends should be finishing off.

That said, i think they were a bit too drastic on the splash reduction.

I like them right about where they are.

Don't get me wrong, I love missiles.. PGi had me a role warfare.. and the first thing I said was "Catapult!" (Support) probably having a lot to do with my old job in the army being a mortarman, a job which I miss.

That being said, yes it was hilarious when missiles were OP(especially having LRM50 carve a YLW literally in half shearing off RA, RT, and RL in one volley on the release of artemis) but that isn't how they should be.

LRMs right now do enough damage that they force you to notice them, and highly encourage you to bring AMS, but they don't do so much damage that one wrong move shortens your game by 50%. AND they move faster so they don't HAVE to be boated to be worth bringing... thus far the most drastic buff towards balance I think they've seen.


------------
Are they complete? Not quite- I hear they're working on the splash mechanic and once that is done they may need to re-balance the damage to work with the new splash.. but I think, if the game were to launch right now: Missiles would be ok.

[Lykaon]

Livewyr, on 24 May 2013 - 04:35 PM, said:

Umm.. if the brawler has no ranged weapons.. anything outside his range is easymode...
Like holding a swinging and wailing kid back by his forehead.

What is your point here?

--------------------

To be clear, I have a wonderful Atlas D setup that does range, support, and brawling.. fairly efficiently.

2ALRMx15s for support/range
1ERLL for range/punch
2Med lasers and an AC20 for short range.

Will it do as well at brawling as the iconic D-DC from the brawling meta? no
Will it do as well at range as a 6PPC stalker? no

Will it laugh at the D-DC forced to hide or be punished for having no ranged weapons? yes.
Will it laugh at the PPC stalker forced into a brawl? emphatic yes.

-------------------
With the missile speed adjustment, the age of the viable mixed load mech is returning...

Me favorite thing to see is 5-6 mechs on my team all turning and sending 15-20 LRMs at a spotted target.
That is called: "support"

Replacing the ER Large Laser with an ER-PPC may be a good option for handling the poptarts.The front loaded damage over hit scan is a big deal.You will likely notice a significant increase in damage dealt in a match.It also pairs nicely with the AC20 in brawl range for a finisher.

Perhaps reducing the second LRM15 to a 10 rack will be where the tonnage can be skimmed?

Off to mechlab....thanks for the build advice!

[Livewyr]

Lykaon, on 25 May 2013 - 02:49 AM, said:

Replacing the ER Large Laser with an ER-PPC may be a good option for handling the poptarts.The front loaded damage over hit scan is a big deal.You will likely notice a significant increase in damage dealt in a match.It also pairs nicely with the AC20 in brawl range for a finisher.

Perhaps reducing the second LRM15 to a 10 rack will be where the tonnage can be skimmed?

Off to mechlab....thanks for the build advice!

Yeah, PPC would be cool- I wouldn't be able to fit it in my build as my ERLL sits in CT (2 crits) and the med lasers are in the arms for providing more precision lighter damage, and for firing more often. (Logic being that arms are great for dealing the stuff closer to you and requiring more drastic angle maneuvering as compared to something ERLL range)

[Sheraf]

Alekzander Smirnoff, on 24 May 2013 - 03:21 PM, said:

By bringing LRM's back to acceptable levels I no longer poke my head out for one second only to have it vaporized by 12 orbs of burning plasmatic death. I don't even think you needed to bump the recycle to 4 seconds but that was nice too.

The AMS change was nice too, makes the incoming missile spam less of a problem for my lance mates and myself!

Keep up the good work!

If your enemies are waiting just to get you, do not poke your head out, call someone to do that instead. You have a team

Edited by Sheraf, 25 May 2013 - 04:40 AM.

[MangoBogadog]

Alekzander Smirnoff, on 24 May 2013 - 04:47 PM, said:

SRM damage is usable enough with mechs that fit 2+ launchers are fine. So what if you've been here since CB, I've not and I have a lot less to complain about it appears.

I'll be the first to admit I am a lousy player, 3-4 kill matches are few and far between for me but I usually manage 3-500 damage in whatever I happen to be piloting but I have my less than 100 and greater than 800 matches as well.

I'm also incredibly laid back so I don't slap my extraordinarily small epeen around unless it is warranted.

My favorite mech at the moment is a HGN-733c with the ac/20, 2ML, and 3xSRM 6+A. One jump jet for mobility and a standard 310 engine. I trash other mechs so by no means do SRMs require much of a boost. Maybe in the single launcher area, sure but large quantities of them, they do not need more than a 0.3 damage boost.

I started this thread as a thanks and would like to keep it light. Sorry if my last post offended but take it as is, brawling is fine. SRM damage boost will break it unless they change splash damage.

I agree that SRM's are nearly there, but the last patch that increased their spread makes them less effective again.

My problem is that they are now less accurate at 100m that LRM's are at 800. People using PPC/gauss can still get concentrated fire and do 35/45 damage on a single location whereas SRM's just spread out that damage that you are dealing.

If you are brawling you want to get your opponent to hit as many locations on your mech as possible to spread their damage, therefore keeping you alive longer and functional. SRM's right now do that anyway without the enemy having to twist, tank or JJ to spread the damage. While you may get decent damage with them they are not efficient enough in comparison with PPC/Gauss... At close range they should be more efficient, not less efficient.

[Alekzander Smirnoff]

My HGN-733C variant has Artemis loaded as well, it tightens the spread in brawling range down to the size where all missiles will hit the torso of a hunchback at around 100M. So when I'm fighting someone in the 50-100m range almost all SRM's land on the torso with whatever I happen to be shooting at.

My HGN-HM however has a pair of LRM-15A, 2ML+Tag in the left arm and an AC-10 in the right arm, with 2JJ and an XL 295. I was surprised at how much damage I managed to do with it, I probably got lucky near the end of a match but I took down four mech's before I was taken down.

Artemis seems to make LRM and SRM missiles quite viable vs not having them.

[HarmAssassin]

Yesterday, I dusted off an old A1 Splatcat just to test out the "new" SRM spread. I went 1 v 1 against a centurion fighting over his home base. After hitting him at least a half dozen times with 6 SRM6's at close range, he completely stopped trying to avoid me, and just stood in the open perfectly still (firing back of course). I hit him with another 9 or 10 point-blank range alphas (under 40m)....

He killed me.

I should have been able to completely annihilate that mech especially once it stopped dodging.

We were both undamaged at the start of the encounter, and my armor is maxed out. End of round showed my damage done as only 380 (at that range no missile should have missed (cursor was aimed at his chin with each pull of the trigger, and I only fire when the enemy mech is fully facing towards or away to avoid hitting arms), 15 alphas at 54 dmg each should have inflicted 810 dmg.

Anyone that says SRMs aren't broken, hasn't used them.

My ping is usually 40ish, but since the last patch has been 100-150ms.

My Atlas DDC with 3 SRM6's can back up this claim. Good at long range, the SRMs used to make him a good brawler as well... not anymore. Since they nerfed SRMs he's useless as a brawler. Late last night, completely undamaged mind you, I ended up in a fight with against 2 Jagermechs. One boating AC2's the other boating MGs. Thought I was about to have 2 easy kill, fight took place at under 100m.... They slaughtered me.

Beginning to think that the game developers own stock in the inter-stellar corporations making PPCs and Gauss Rifles, as they are systematically eliminating all other weapons as viable options.

[l33tworks]

What do u mean by they ddint even need to nump the cooldown to 4 seconds. What else did they do?

[I am]

Currently running a brawler, sans SRMs. Seems to be working out just fine.

[Alekzander Smirnoff]

l33tworks, on 25 May 2013 - 07:11 AM, said:

What do u mean by they ddint even need to nump the cooldown to 4 seconds. What else did they do?

I meant that the increased use of LRM's had dramatically scaled back the amount of PPC's I encountered in matches, back to a level where it wasn't PlasmaticDeathOrbWarrior Online. I haven't been able to play since the hotfix thanks to my step-daughter's graduation yesterday and work ****** me the past couple days. So I can't comment on how things have shifted back since then, I'm still going to drag my LRM heavy builds back out and give them a swirl tonight or tomorrow to judge for myself.

Otherwise its back to my HGN-733C Brawlander.

[Shakespeare]

Livewyr, on 24 May 2013 - 04:35 PM, said:

Umm.. if the brawler has no ranged weapons.. anything outside his range is easymode...
Like holding a swinging and wailing kid back by his forehead.

What is your point here?

--------------------

To be clear, I have a wonderful Atlas D setup that does range, support, and brawling.. fairly efficiently.

2ALRMx15s for support/range
1ERLL for range/punch
2Med lasers and an AC20 for short range.

Will it do as well at brawling as the iconic D-DC from the brawling meta? no
Will it do as well at range as a 6PPC stalker? no

Will it laugh at the D-DC forced to hide or be punished for having no ranged weapons? yes.
Will it laugh at the PPC stalker forced into a brawl? emphatic yes.

-------------------
With the missile speed adjustment, the age of the viable mixed load mech is returning...

Me favorite thing to see is 5-6 mechs on my team all turning and sending 15-20 LRMs at a spotted target.
That is called: "support"

hey, ya know I've been looking for a way to take advantage of the 'D's hardpoints. I'll have to give that a shot!
And yeah, the triple-6 DDC is on its way out - they just don't know it yet. I've already switched out to carrying at least one LRM system as midrange, and it's a better mech for it.

[Mr 144]

Shakespeare, on 25 May 2013 - 12:10 PM, said:

hey, ya know I've been looking for a way to take advantage of the 'D's hardpoints. I'll have to give that a shot!
And yeah, the triple-6 DDC is on its way out - they just don't know it yet. I've already switched out to carrying at least one LRM system as midrange, and it's a better mech for it.

LOL, any decent Atlas Pilot switched to the D or RS the day of the first SRM missile Nerf. And Lulz...good Atlas pilots do not carry a single LRM15. It's so cute watching the OP brag about his 733C build...nothing but a worse D-DC...which is already surpassed. Quite the amusing thread...so many smarties thinking missiles are good So many Rocket Surgeons thinking they're personal experiences overide the basic math of tonnage, crit space, heat, and hardpoint limitations. Good Stuff...

Mr 144

[Shakespeare]

DIdn't say it was a 15. It tends to be used (in my case) in a group to contribute to indirect fire while closing. 1 LRM lone wolf is, yes, pointless. When 6 mechs have one, it's got real utility. Getting a mech with performance isn't just about the ratios, it's about playstyle and team dynamic - otherwise we'd all be running around in the exact same 4 chassis.

Frankly, I'm glad so many people are willing to engage in a little fuzzy math and try out different setups. It's at least a more interesting game out there than two weeks ago.

[Alekzander Smirnoff]

Mr 144, on 25 May 2013 - 12:25 PM, said:

LOL, any decent Atlas Pilot switched to the D or RS the day of the first SRM missile Nerf. And Lulz...good Atlas pilots do not carry a single LRM15. It's so cute watching the OP brag about his 733C build...nothing but a worse D-DC...which is already surpassed. Quite the amusing thread...so many smarties thinking missiles are good So many Rocket Surgeons thinking they're personal experiences overide the basic math of tonnage, crit space, heat, and hardpoint limitations. Good Stuff...

Mr 144

Pure numbers don't mean anything, if you miss that number went down, I'll take a partial hit from SRM's vs no hit at all from a missed PPC shot or one that was fired inside of 90M. Numbers are a third, pilot skill is half, and lag is a sixth of the total equation. If my 90 ton atlas build is hilarious to you then so be it. I enjoy using it because its rather surprising when I jump up over a hill on tourmaline and unload everything into whats in front of me. Usually ends in me being dead, but that's after 600 damage has been dealt out and the few mechs that were there are now limping or dead as well. I can always roll my quad PPC 733P if I want to return burning orb of death fire into your CT as well since your being so arrogant about it.