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The Lrm Rollercoaster - Can We Get Off Already?


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#21 Faktopus Osis

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Posted 25 May 2013 - 12:18 AM

View PostVictor Morson, on 25 May 2013 - 12:08 AM, said:


You listed a horrible build on a really bad variant, but call other builds cheese? That's a bit iffy.

Besides, PPC & Gauss are not the issue here. The lack of viable alternatives are, and right now, we're once again deprived of one.


I run the build because it works well for me. You call it a horrible build because you wouldn't run it, for whatever reason. That's fine, but don't call if horrible, because it's effective when I run it. I don't know your definition of cheese, but I've known it as an unoriginal build that gets lots of kills. Such as a 5-6 LL stalker.

If it's the lack of viable alternatives. . . then change up the weapons themselves. I don't know, maybe give ERPPCs a longer range than PPCs, but a larger deadzone proportionate to the increased range? say 90m dead zone for ppc, 140 for ERs? Give the ERPPC something other than heat as a disadvantage to choosing them over standards.

Or inversely: Give weapons like the large pulse laser reduced damage, say 8, lower heat, 6 ish, and reduce the cooldown to 2.75 or so, so that they simply outclass the sniper weapons in CQB. As they were intended to be, I believe, a rapid fire- high dps brawler weapon.

EDIT: the launcher CAN push 8 at once, since it has 4 ports. It's the SRM/6 that fires in 2 volleys from it.

Edited by Faktopus, 25 May 2013 - 12:23 AM.


#22 Victor Morson

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Posted 25 May 2013 - 12:38 AM

View PostFaktopus, on 25 May 2013 - 12:18 AM, said:

I run the build because it works well for me. You call it a horrible build because you wouldn't run it, for whatever reason. That's fine, but don't call if horrible, because it's effective when I run it. I don't know your definition of cheese, but I've known it as an unoriginal build that gets lots of kills. Such as a 5-6 LL stalker.


Probably more likely to be a Highlander, honestly. That said, even if you want to run something "out of the box" the 2X with that loadout is really inferior. It might work well for you, but if you face higher ELO opponents, it's likely not to. For example, you could get a more effective version of the build you already have (3 Large + 2 SRM6) on a Catapult even; your launcher can't squeeze out the number of missiles you fire in a single volley.

I own a 2X, the poor thing has sat in the garage since the week after I bought it (a glorious weak of OP LRMs and Gauss).

View PostFaktopus, on 25 May 2013 - 12:18 AM, said:

If it's the lack of viable alternatives. . . then change up the weapons themselves. I don't know, maybe give ERPPCs a longer range than PPCs, but a larger deadzone proportionate to the increased range? say 90m dead zone for ppc, 140 for ERs? Give the ERPPC something other than heat as a disadvantage to choosing them over standards.


LRMs got better -> PPC use went down. If LRMs were toned back slightly, PPC use would still be down. If anything the last 48 hours have proven what I'm saying more than I ever could. The minute LRMs got nerf'ed the PPC meta came right back. Hell, I even saw a lot of brawlers in the LRM-heavy meta, since unlike Snipers, LRMs are helpless up close.

Long story short, working LRMs - 500% more diversity.

View PostFaktopus, on 25 May 2013 - 12:18 AM, said:

Or inversely: Give weapons like the large pulse laser reduced damage, say 8, lower heat, 6 ish, and reduce the cooldown to 2.75 or so, so that they simply outclass the sniper weapons in CQB. As they were intended to be, I believe, a rapid fire- high dps brawler weapon.


They don't need all that. I've been pushing for better Pulse for a long time, but you know all they need? A cut down discharge time.

Remove one of their pulses, and stack the damage into the others; or keep the same number of pulses but make them discharge at least twice as fast. Bingo, your accuracy will go way way up with the gun, bringing it back to the top tier again without making a single DPS adjustment.

I'm not saying anything crazy or new, people have been asking for that very change for like six months.

View PostFaktopus, on 25 May 2013 - 12:18 AM, said:

EDIT: the launcher CAN push 8 at once, since it has 4 ports. It's the SRM/6 that fires in 2 volleys from it.


It still staggers out in two bursts of 4, instead of one burst of 8, last I checked. I used to jam an LRM/20 through it during a brief glory period of the LRMs (I think that time before they buffed AMS so much that by taking AMS, you could ignore LRMs, which were otherwise overpowered - a really awful attempt at balancing them to say the least.)

#23 Faktopus Osis

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Posted 25 May 2013 - 12:56 AM

View PostVictor Morson, on 25 May 2013 - 12:38 AM, said:


It still staggers out in two bursts of 4, instead of one burst of 8, last I checked. I used to jam an LRM/20 through it during a brief glory period of the LRMs (I think that time before they buffed AMS so much that by taking AMS, you could ignore LRMs, which were otherwise overpowered - a really awful attempt at balancing them to say the least.)


No, it's one burst of 8. That's the way missile ports work right now. If you have 10 missile ports, and 2 LRM 10s, you fire a salvo of 20. If you have 10 missile ports, and an LRM 20, you fire 2 salvos of 10. IMO, it's broken and needs to be set so that you can ONLY fire 1 missile from 1 port at a time, instead of the way it is now. An LRM20 from a 2X would be five salvos of 4 on each trigger pull.

As far as your ideas with Large pulse lasers, yes. That change would be incredible. I do also believe that they need lowered heat to go with the shorter firing time, just by 1-1.3 points, but a faster discharge would be fantastic.

#24 Appogee

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Posted 25 May 2013 - 05:13 AM

LRMs aren't worthless at the moment. They feel more balanced than they have ever been, since the previously inescapable firing arc was improved, and the splash made less severe.

(LRM boaters continue to be worthless. But that's a separate discussion.)

#25 Adridos

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Posted 25 May 2013 - 05:17 AM

View Postmwhighlander, on 24 May 2013 - 10:49 PM, said:

...Yeah pgi just sucks at balancing weapons/equip.


They just don't realise they created a system that is completely unbalancable.

Either mechlab or convergence needs a complete remaking, otherwise it's impossible to blance it really due to the exponentiation the mechlab and perfect convergence allows.

#26 Nicholas Carlyle

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Posted 25 May 2013 - 05:50 AM

Well problem I'm seeing now is there seems to be a problem with LRM tracking, and the flight path is once again jagged at the end of the flight.

I'm actually watching LRM's missing wide open targets.

#27 Victor Morson

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Posted 25 May 2013 - 11:04 AM

View PostAppogee, on 25 May 2013 - 05:13 AM, said:

LRMs aren't worthless at the moment. They feel more balanced than they have ever been, since the previously inescapable firing arc was improved, and the splash made less severe.

(LRM boaters continue to be worthless. But that's a separate discussion.)


Yes they are; entirely. They do not output enough damage to justify taking that much weight out your 'mech and team, and are no longer good enough at tracking to even justify them as "They don't do much damage, but it's hard to avoid." Right now, they do crappy damage that's easy to avoid.

Also if you aren't boating LRMs they are tripple useless because they hilariously buffed AMS to deal with the super missiles, meaning that if you decided to do something like take a single LRM/20 to back your design, you're throwing your 15+ tons for the gun and ammo completely away into the void.

That's just lame. Anyone who says LRMs are alright does not use them or does not like them in theory. They're entirely busted.

#28 Kin3ticX

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Posted 25 May 2013 - 11:59 AM

Really effin' tired of LRMS getting nerfed into oblivion. Seriously pgi, every time you do this you break half my mechs, which are mostly configured similar to stock.

I only needed 1 drop to witness how broken LRMs are....did you even test your hotfix?

You will never balance the LRM 10 on a CN9 or the LRM 20 on a HGN until you do something about boating 4x LRM 20's or 15s.

Edited by Kin3ticX, 25 May 2013 - 12:00 PM.


#29 Victor Morson

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Posted 25 May 2013 - 12:03 PM

View PostKin3ticX, on 25 May 2013 - 11:59 AM, said:

Really effin' tired of LRMS getting nerfed into oblivion. Seriously pgi, every time you do this you break half my mechs, which are mostly configured similar to stock.

I only needed 1 drop to witness how broken LRMs are....did you even test your hotfix?

You will never balance the LRM 10 on a CN9 or the LRM 20 on a HGN until you do something about boating 4x LRM 20's or 15s.


The LRM boats aren't even the problem. Honestly, during the whole 24 hours of LRMs being good, those 4 LRM 20 Stalkers were proving to be nothing but a huge liability; with no defense and running XL, they were easy as anything to get up on and eliminate in seconds.

Honestly, faster LRM delivery platforms were far more of a threat.

That said it is unacceptable that AMS has been buffed so much that it could eat an entire flight of 20+ missiles when the missiles that do get through won't even scratch your paint. That forces you to run stupid LRM boats if you even want to do damage at all, and you'd still be better off with real weapons instead.

Edited by Victor Morson, 25 May 2013 - 12:03 PM.


#30 Otto Cannon

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Posted 25 May 2013 - 12:28 PM

I tried using my LRM stalker after the patch and found that now the 4 tons of medium lasers are more deadly than the 34 tons of launchers and ammo.

#31 General Taskeen

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Posted 25 May 2013 - 04:17 PM

We still haven't reached the NARC, LB-X, MG, and Flamer roller coaster yet. Are we there yet?





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