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Crow's Blackjack Tech


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#41 Tarrasque

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Posted 04 July 2013 - 01:59 PM

Tried your BJ-1X build, but I didn't want to shell out for the XL295, so I bought the STD, put in FF and dropped the AMS and 2 SL, and really liked the results.

#42 Benjamin Davion

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Posted 04 July 2013 - 07:39 PM

Recently completed my SECOND total rebuild of my BJ3 "Red Sword". I've dubbed this the 'Slashjack'. Dropped the biggest possible XL engine in it (XL235, as I remember), max jumpjets, AMS w/ 1 ton ammunition, maximum armor, x6 Medium Pulse Lasers. All the remaining room filled with extra DHS. The idea hit me out of nowhere (If anyone else has already built this, please, claim credit. Don't mean to steal your work). It felt like a cheese build until I actually took it into combat. It cruises along at (as I recall from memory) 86.8 kph, which is more than respectable, and has a pretty high jump. My first match out (fighting from the upper-side of River City) I engaged two Ravens on the right side hill, fighting among the buildings. More often than not, I found myself jumping over them and stabbing down with my lasers. They could barely hit back as I flew over. Heat dissipation is better than any other build I've tried (better than stock, better than my ERPPC build by far). At close range, I use three triggers, though I mainly only use the first two. The first trigger has all six lasers set to chainfire, #2 is all six set to volley. The remaining one fires only the pair of torso mounted lasers. The chainfire allows for (firing 1 laser approximately every second) an extremely long sustained volley of pinpoint fire. Conversely, you can fire all six to cut VERY deeply. It CAN run hot if you aren't careful and the range is limited, but at close range, this thing SHREDS armor. The two mechs it seems best against is Ravens and Stalkers. Even Atlas' have trouble with this mech because it's fast enough to circle them and hits HARD for a long time. Earlier I was running two ERPPCs and one medium laser, full armor, stock engine, -2 JJ. I could engage from an extreme distance, but rarely did over 150 damage. I ditched the build, finally came back for another design, now I'm doing from 250-500 damage a match. The one place the mech has trouble is getting caught in the open. A PPC boater can tear him down before he gets close, BUT IF HE GETS CLOSE, you're in trouble.

EDIT: Fixed errors from being at work and not able to access mechlab.

Edited by Benjamin Davion, 05 July 2013 - 08:23 PM.


#43 Lyoncet

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Posted 05 July 2013 - 03:44 AM

View PostBenjamin Davion, on 04 July 2013 - 07:39 PM, said:

Recently completed my SECOND total rebuild of my BJ1-X "Red Sword". I've dubbed this the 'Slashjack'. Dropped the biggest possible XL engine in it (XL295, as I remember), max jumpjets, AMS w/ 1 ton ammunition, maximum armor, x6 Medium Pulse Lasers. All the remaining room filled with extra DHS. The idea hit me out of nowhere (If anyone else has already built this, please, claim credit. Don't mean to steal your work). It felt like a cheese build until I actually took it into combat. It cruises along at (as I recall from memory) 86.8 kph, which is more than respectable, and has a pretty high jump. My first match out (fighting from the upper-side of River City) I engaged two Ravens on the right side hill, fighting among the buildings. More often than not, I found myself jumping over them and stabbing down with my lasers. They could barely hit back as I flew over. Heat dissipation is better than any other build I've tried (better than stock, better than my ERPPC build by far). At close range, I use three triggers, though I mainly only use the first two. The first trigger has all six lasers set to chainfire, #2 is all six set to volley. The remaining one fires only the pair of torso mounted lasers. The chainfire allows for (firing 1 laser approximately every second) an extremely long sustained volley of pinpoint fire. Conversely, you can fire all six to cut VERY deeply. It CAN run hot if you aren't careful and the range is limited, but at close range, this thing SHREDS armor. The two mechs it seems best against is Ravens and Stalkers. Even Atlas' have trouble with this mech because it's fast enough to circle them and hits HARD for a long time. Earlier I was running two ERPPCs and one medium laser, full armor, stock engine, -2 JJ. I could engage from an extreme distance, but rarely did over 150 damage. I ditched the build, finally came back for another design, now I'm doing from 250-500 damage a match. The one place the mech has trouble is getting caught in the open. A PPC boater can tear him down before he gets close, BUT IF HE GETS CLOSE, you're in trouble.


This is absolutely miraculous. Why? Because 1X can't hold jump jets, and no other Blackjack can have over a 235 engine. Are you sure it wasn't a BJ-3? With a 235 engine? Because that can hold jets and cruises around 93 km/h with speed tweak.

I'm glad you found a nice build, but is this really viable when compared to something like the Jenner-F? You get a marginal damage increase because of the pulse lasers, but way lower speed and much larger profile. And worse heat management and lower range, without the ability to consistently close or hug someone's backside. It just seems like all those disadvantages really outweigh the advantage of a little extra DPS.

#44 Tanar

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Posted 05 July 2013 - 12:34 PM

i have something similar. BJ-3, 6ML, 1JJ, ams and 1 ton of ammo, max armor and... std engine. w/ speed tweak i hit 91.something. doesn't suffer the side torso death BJs are somewhat known for and what i notice more people try for now. has been the first new mech i've tried that i don't start off with a 1/12 kdr like most of the other new mechs/chassis i get. maybe finally used to blackjacks after using the other 3 for so long. was almost not going to get it but decided it was cheap enough and nothing else really stood out that said "buy me".

actually has better w/l and kdr than my goto hunchy 4sp right now even though it's only gotten about 40ish matches to date so numbers could adjust to my norms with more matches but usually my numbers start horrible and i have to battle back to even. dunno how to handle the idea of a mech i'm starting out doing well in.

#45 Drakari

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Posted 05 July 2013 - 02:19 PM

I've really liked by BJ-1DC despite not having many recognizable advantages (though my personal experience is that it would run just fine with an XL engine if I could afford one...). It's fun to use and pretty versatile.

However, I have now gotten Basic mastery of the 1DC and now I'm considering what variant to try next. The loadout I've had the most success with so far (bearing in mind that I've been running the stock 180 STD engine the entire time) is basically the BJ-3 stock loadout with more heatsinks and no jump jets so that would be the most seamless transition. Alternatively, the BJ-1 is the only variant with ballistics, and I do really like the ballistics even though I haven't been able to use them effectively yet. Then there's the 1X, which comes with a higher speed and an engine I could save and pop into whatever third variant I get, though I do intend to go with an XL engine eventually (admittedly the 225 would get more trade-in value toward that, and I could run my current weapons on that too...)

It's a very hard choice, I'm leaning toward the 1X because it will get me used to high speeds and put me farther on my way to earning an XL that I can use for all of the variants (as well as some slower light mech builds if I want to try that at some point), but if anybody has advice I'd be happy to hear it.

#46 Xeno Phalcon

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Posted 05 July 2013 - 04:38 PM

I went back to grinding XP in my BJ-1 after getting my QKD-4H and 5Ks nice and cosey. I droped my usualy erppcs to instead mount two large lasers, two medium lasers and two machineguns and been doing alarmingly well in a support role. Using a 225 standard im getting a smigin over 89kph with speed tweak but the nimble footwork 2Xbasic allows when combined with jump jets lets me move through rough terrain and outmanuever even other jumpers.

BJ-1 for specifics, One ton of mgun ammo could probably be dropped for another DHS iv only ran out of ammo once and it was in a rather long grueling battle that ended with me in a brutal dogfight against a jager and raven. (Notably I did over 500dmg in that match, largely due to pouring 2000 rounds of mgun ammo into people XD)

EDIT: Looks like I already DID remove a ton of ammo for another DHS in my actual mech, woops!

Edited by Xeno Phalcon, 06 July 2013 - 04:54 AM.


#47 Benjamin Davion

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Posted 05 July 2013 - 08:22 PM

View PostLyoncet, on 05 July 2013 - 03:44 AM, said:

This is absolutely miraculous. Why? Because 1X can't hold jump jets, and no other Blackjack can have over a 235 engine. Are you sure it wasn't a BJ-3? With a 235 engine? Because that can hold jets and cruises around 93 km/h with speed tweak.

I'm glad you found a nice build, but is this really viable when compared to something like the Jenner-F? You get a marginal damage increase because of the pulse lasers, but way lower speed and much larger profile. And worse heat management and lower range, without the ability to consistently close or hug someone's backside. It just seems like all those disadvantages really outweigh the advantage of a little extra DPS.


Yep. Definitely a -3 with a 235. Simply a mistake on my part. I was at work and not able to bring up my mechlab and went off memory. My apologies.

From what I have seen, I think it's viable. Regardless of the DPS, the ACTUAL damage I have seen has been astronomical. Yeah, it's not as fast as a Jenner or another light, but it's definitely tougher. If your goal is to be the fastest medium pulse laser boat around, this isn't the mech. BUT FOR A BLACKJACK this mech is fast, well armored, and has obscene damage outputs at close quarters. As for the heat, etc., I have been pondering if all mediums would be more effective overall, but I haven't experimented with it yet. I probably will shortly. For the moment, I call it viable. Test it if you like. Further, the viability of mechs depends alot on playstyle. I play like a lunatic in this thing, but that's me.

#48 Drakari

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Posted 10 July 2013 - 04:56 PM

I've recently been having pretty good luck with this BJ-1 build. The ammo count is lower than I'd like, but I have yet to actually run out. In theory the jump jet could be swapped for a small laser, but I find that to be a pretty shallow gesture while having even one jump jet is a more significant benefit.

That said, I'll probably switch out one of the UAC/5s for something else in the future, maybe a large laser or PPC, possibly several medium lasers... quite a few possibilities, and even more if I swap back to my -1DC. If I do that I'd probably drop a ton or two of ammo because I'll be using it more slowly and it won't be such a big deal if I run out. Thinking about it, I'd be interested to see an asymmetrical Blackjack with, say, 2 ballistic hardpoints in one arm and 3 energy in the other. I can imagine some pretty interesting builds with something like that.

#49 Raso

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Posted 11 July 2013 - 04:42 AM

View PostDrakari, on 10 July 2013 - 04:56 PM, said:

I've recently been having pretty good luck with this BJ-1 build. The ammo count is lower than I'd like, but I have yet to actually run out. In theory the jump jet could be swapped for a small laser, but I find that to be a pretty shallow gesture while having even one jump jet is a more significant benefit.

That said, I'll probably switch out one of the UAC/5s for something else in the future, maybe a large laser or PPC, possibly several medium lasers... quite a few possibilities, and even more if I swap back to my -1DC. If I do that I'd probably drop a ton or two of ammo because I'll be using it more slowly and it won't be such a big deal if I run out. Thinking about it, I'd be interested to see an asymmetrical Blackjack with, say, 2 ballistic hardpoints in one arm and 3 energy in the other. I can imagine some pretty interesting builds with something like that.

Amazing. An actual use for standard heatsinks!

Edited by Raso, 11 July 2013 - 04:43 AM.


#50 Drakari

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Posted 11 July 2013 - 07:05 AM

View PostRaso, on 11 July 2013 - 04:42 AM, said:

Amazing. An actual use for standard heatsinks!

They're feasible in ballistics-only builds, and if you had 13 free slots and standard armor with double heatsinks then standard heatsinks with Ferro-fibrous gives you basically 1 extra ton (in a Blackjack at least) and keeps one free slot to use that ton. Still, I don't think it's really a viable solution forever; endo-steel and Ferro-fibrous together are still a lot cheaper than Double Heatsinks, but even replacing one of the UACs with energy weapons will make heat a lot less manageable.

What I'm thinking right now is, I'll drop one UAC, 2 tons of ammo, and ferro-fibrous armor, and put in double heatsinks and two large lasers, see how that works. Right now I'm having trouble dealing with lights due to some hit registration issues and just generally needing to lead such a fast and maneuverable target, so I definitely want lasers; Large Lasers have similar effective range to the UAC, and are still able to avoid the issue of lights being difficult to hit. If that has poor heat management I could go to 4 medium lasers (6 if I switch over to the DC) to save some weight for more heatsinks at the cost of some range.

EDIT: I tried it out in the mechlab, it turns out I can keep Ferro-fibrous after all. I used the extra tonnage to bump up the armor a little and add a second jump jet. Link

Edited by Drakari, 11 July 2013 - 07:10 AM.


#51 Rando Slim

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Posted 19 July 2013 - 01:43 PM

I'm having issues with learning the Blackjack. My build for the BJ-1 is an XL-235 engine, 4 medium pulses, 2 MG, 4jj, AMS, 2 tons of ammo for both AMS and MGs, max armor, 10 DHS, and Endo. On paper it looks like a very solid build to me at least. 34 firepower, 1.36 heat, 85kph before tweak, great jumpin ability, 306 armor. But the lack of range sucks, the MGs are weaker (need buff to 1.3 or 1.5 dps plz devs) and so far I'm doing terrible with it. One kill in 14 matches, decent number of assists but low damage, only broke 200 once or twice. I do far far better in my Jenners. The lack of turning speed makes it hard to surivive in even with more armor. I know once I get it elited or at least all through basic it will be better. See I have this thing where not using all my hardpoints makes me cringe, so I refuse to try any cheese build with an ERPPC and an Ac/20 with no close range stuff.

I tried another builld with 4 med lasers, and dual ac/5s but its just impossible to shoehorn more than one ton of ammo in there without going all the way down to like 252 armor, which to me is unacceptable given how damn slow it is and all the heavy weaponry you'll be getting railed with. Everyone says how its easy to get to cover from LRM showers in a medium but I don't get it, LRMs **** my **** up if I don't have AMS on most maps except frozen city. In my Jenner, yea I don't need it any more, but for this thing...... I just wanted something else to use besides the jenner and I didn't want to be exclusively a light pilot, so now I'm kinda stuck with it as my bankroll is back down to 1 mil.

#52 Ruccus

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Posted 20 July 2013 - 04:56 PM

View PostScrotacus 42, on 19 July 2013 - 01:43 PM, said:

I'm having issues with learning the Blackjack. My build for the BJ-1 is an XL-235 engine, 4 medium pulses, 2 MG, 4jj, AMS, 2 tons of ammo for both AMS and MGs, max armor, 10 DHS, and Endo. On paper it looks like a very solid build to me at least. 34 firepower, 1.36 heat, 85kph before tweak, great jumpin ability, 306 armor. But the lack of range sucks, the MGs are weaker (need buff to 1.3 or 1.5 dps plz devs) and so far I'm doing terrible with it. One kill in 14 matches, decent number of assists but low damage, only broke 200 once or twice. I do far far better in my Jenners. The lack of turning speed makes it hard to surivive in even with more armor. I know once I get it elited or at least all through basic it will be better. See I have this thing where not using all my hardpoints makes me cringe, so I refuse to try any cheese build with an ERPPC and an Ac/20 with no close range stuff.

I tried another builld with 4 med lasers, and dual ac/5s but its just impossible to shoehorn more than one ton of ammo in there without going all the way down to like 252 armor, which to me is unacceptable given how damn slow it is and all the heavy weaponry you'll be getting railed with. Everyone says how its easy to get to cover from LRM showers in a medium but I don't get it, LRMs **** my **** up if I don't have AMS on most maps except frozen city. In my Jenner, yea I don't need it any more, but for this thing...... I just wanted something else to use besides the jenner and I didn't want to be exclusively a light pilot, so now I'm kinda stuck with it as my bankroll is back down to 1 mil.


To free up weight to use however you want I'd suggest dropping one ton each of MG and AMS ammo and two or three jumpjets (unless you use them a lot and for extended periods). I rarely run out of MG ammo when using the 1 ton per 2 MGs ratio. While I'm not sure you really need AMS (you're probably fast enough to get under cover before the volley hits) I find 1 ton lasts for at least the first half of the match, after which it's more of a skirmish than LRM boats unleashing volleys of missiles that need to be shot out of the air.

The current loadout for my BJ-1 is a 225XL engine with a Gauss Rifle main weapon (3 tons of ammo) and four Medium Lasers as secondary weapons, but with only one jump jet (I use it just to climb hills). While I won't tell you to 'use my build', I like it and think it's effective. I can unload with everything for a 35 point alpha, and with the gauss rifle I can still keep laying on significant damage while I'm on the verge of overheating.

Another build I've used that's a bit closer to yours and fills your 'use all the hardpoints' criteria is 2 PPCs, 2 MGs (one ton of ammo), and 2 small lasers, with the rest of the weight in double heatsinks. The PPCs give a nice immediate 20 point punch (that disrupts ECM) and if someone closes in on you you still have the MGs and small lasers to aid the lessened damage of a close in PPC shot.

In terms of tactics you want to practice jump-turns, and looking at the maps to see where you can use height differentials to your advantage. With your heavy weapons in your arms you have an advantage over those mechs that have significant weaponry in their torso, but only when you can keep above or below their torso's crosshairs. When you can cut down the number of weapons a heavier mech can train on you you'll survive longer and have a higher damage output.

While it's not heroic, you also have to know when to take some lumps to your back armour and 'initiate a tactical retreat' - you can go toe-to-toe with some mechs, but when it looks sketchy do your best Brave Sir Robin imitation and bravely run away so you can join up with a teammate and even the odds.

#53 POOTYTANGASAUR

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Posted 20 July 2013 - 05:23 PM

Best and only blackjack i can pilot: BJ-1X
Actually that and this: BJ-3
I love my swayback but i also ran these for a bit before i sold the jack chassis. I will admit they were fun and effective but will never compare to my hunchback. it can carry 8 medium lasers at 92.7kph with BAP, AMS, and 17 DHS so i have no reason to run one of these other than JJs which i don't like and never use effectively. Also others find the hunch gimps the hunchback but if you are good you can deal with it.

#54 xengk

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Posted 21 July 2013 - 07:10 PM

With the new cliff movement, I have rebuilt my BJ1 to replace my BJ1DC.
2 AC/2 w 4t
2 MPLaz or 4Mlaz depending on mood
4 JJ
235 XL
10DHS
EE
FF
Max amour

The idea with this build to as a direct fire support, stay out from the brawl and focus fire on a target. When there is no brawl going on, find a perch and soften the enemy with dual AC2 until the fighting starts.

If the enemy close in and wants your BJ, use your speed, JJ and max amour to get back to the main group and let the big boys take care of him. Your Mlaz are only token resistance compare to enemy mechs that want to brawl you, poke them when you got a clean shot but don't rely on them saving your skin.

Edited by xengk, 21 July 2013 - 07:11 PM.


#55 Rando Slim

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Posted 22 July 2013 - 02:50 AM

Can someone please explain to me how a build of 4mlas and 2 AC/2 with 14dhs results in 1.15 Heat efficiency? That is some ******** is what it is I'm infuriated with the blackjack. It makes absolutely no sense to me that my Jenner-D can mount 4mlas and 2srm4 with 10 or 11DHS and get a 1.24 heat rating, yet the aforementioned build is 1.15 and can still only fit one ton of ammo. The BJ-3 blows also you pretty much have to just use 3-4 of your hardpoints or your gonna overheat terribly. Oh and it handles like a frakking brick, how do people use this thing, even with jump-turns it doesn't matter your lower torso still drags behind terribly , it seems like most heavy mechs outmaneuver me without using jump-turns. I've played about 40 matches in blackjacks and a KDR of .27. Only got 6 mech bays also so this sucks to waste like 5mil c-bills just to give up on it but I'm about at that point.

EDIT: I tried that build you used xengk for the BJ-1 and it is a bit better than what I had, not as good up close as my 4mplas, 2MG build but, gonna give it a few more runs later today and see whats better in the long run. I still just suck at piloting the thing and I keep getting into situations I can't get out of and I keep falling victim to tunnel vision and not realizing my hevies I was protecting left to go do something else. Also I feel defenseless now against lights and any distance longer than 100 meters that I have to traverse with no cover makes me nervous.

Edited by Scrotacus 42, 22 July 2013 - 04:02 AM.


#56 Ruccus

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Posted 22 July 2013 - 05:05 PM

2 AC2s put out more heat than two SRM4s. In the span of 3.5 seconds the two AC2s will fire eight times, generating 16 heat and 32 damage. The two SRM4s will fire once and generate 6 heat with 16 damage.

Also, if you run a bigger engine (with more heatsinks) in your Jenner it would affect the efficiency because heatsinks inside the engine work better than heatsinks outside the engine. For example my normal build with a 225XL engine and 1 double heatsink (10 heatsinks total) has a heat efficiency of 1.31. If I pull out my 225XL (with 9 internal heatsinks) and replace it with the stock 180 (which only has 7 internal heatsinks), adding two external heatsinks and keeping the same weaponry lowers my heat efficiency to 1.27 even though both builds use 10 heatsinks.

The key to AC2 damage output is sustained fire; popping them off and running away doesn't do much good, but if you can get into a position where to can put five to eight seconds of sustained fire on a mech you're going to hurt it. If your four medium lasers are spiking the heat too quickly you might want to swap them for two medium pulse lasers, four small lasers, or just drop one or two medium lasers and see if that helps with your heat.

With your heat efficiency frustration it sounds to me like your medium lasers are working against your AC2s by preventing a sustained output. Try replacing the two torso medium lasers with AC2 ammo (or one heatsink and one ton of ammo) for a few matches and see if that helps with the heat; the AC2s can do a lot of damage so long as you're not in heat trouble.

#57 New Day

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Posted 22 July 2013 - 05:10 PM

235 xl 3ml 1ac20

#58 Ruccus

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Posted 22 July 2013 - 05:21 PM

View PostNamesAreStupid, on 22 July 2013 - 05:10 PM, said:

235 xl 3ml 1ac20


I prefer 4 medium lasers plus one gauss rifle, but it's the same build principle.

#59 Rando Slim

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Posted 23 July 2013 - 05:08 AM

For whatever reason, I've now started to do a lot better, but in the BJ-3 which I didn't expect because its a laser boat and although my heat is 1.17, I'm doing a much better job managing it (still get in trouble on hot maps a little) and I use 2 Large Lasers, 4 medium lasers, 2 jumpjets, ams, an xl 235, max armor, and 15DHS. I've broke 500damage a couple times and even led my team in match score once. I also tried your suggestions Ruccus and yes it did help, still fairly low damage overall and a sub-par alpha, but have gotten some kills and less heat frustration. Also dual AC2s are very satisfying to fire.

#60 New Day

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Posted 23 July 2013 - 07:12 AM

View PostRuccus, on 22 July 2013 - 05:21 PM, said:

I prefer 4 medium lasers plus one gauss rifle, but it's the same build principle.

I don't want to sacrifice 2 additional tons of JJs and speed.





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