106 replies to this topic

[Thorqemada]

Hayashi, on 29 May 2013 - 01:35 PM, said:

From objections about whether or not the testing grounds are valid for proving a bug, now to saying that the broken boxes should be left broken...

I'm beginning to think that some players are completely disinterested in the idea of balance at all.

Imho your findings put some of the game mechanics into the light of the Forum audience and thx for that.

Though i dont feel there is a bug or gamebreaking imbalance here:
The Cent is bigger than the Hunch thus getting more hit, the Cent must expose more of its Body than the Hunch thus getting more hit, in CB the Hunch was the best Medium for a reason.
Not Centurions made Hunchbacks worhtless - its the current meta that makes Mediums crap.

Aside of that its an design ideal that Mechs have different characterisitcs.
The Hunch has a bigger Punch, the Cent can soak some more damage = "perfect imbalance" !!!

Edited by Thorqemada, 30 May 2013 - 12:06 PM.

[Krazy Kat]

Lefty Lucy, on 26 May 2013 - 08:27 AM, said:

Ok, after making my previous flippant statement, I actually went into mechlab to test things out. Of the testing grounds mechs, Atlases and Centurions seem to have large "residual arm hitboxes." On the Atlas I think it has a much smaller effect on overall durability because the Atlases CT is so easy to hit anyways, but on the Cent you can basically only hit the CT by shooting a pretty narrow strip on the front of the mech.

Since I can't play online due to net-goblins, I tried it out in the testing grounds.

Medium lasers to side torso: 10-11 hits to destroy. Then:
Medium lasers to center torso: 14 hits to kill.
Medium lasers to side torso: 28 hits to kill.
Medium lasers to arm stump: 56 hits to kill.
And the stump is pretty big. Almost any shot from the side hits the stump.

Here's a scary thought that I tried in the testing grounds.
Medium lasers to LL: 10 hits to damage LL.
Medium lasers to RL: 10 hits to damage RL.
Medium lasers to LA: 10 hits to destroy LA.
Medium lasers to LA stump: 22 hits to destroy LT.
Medium lasers to RA: 10 hits to destroy RA.
Medium lasers to RA stump: 22 hits to destroy RT.
Medium lasers to RA stump: 56 hits to destroy CT.

Do the math. Or not. That's <calculator pause> 140 medium laser hits. 700 damage.
And until the final shot he is still running and gunning at full speed with two CT lasers.

Edited by Krazy Kat, 30 May 2013 - 06:56 PM.

[Because Hunchback]

Sooo, why is it again that this matters all that much? Just shoot the legs off.

[Telemonian Ajax]

I just want to add, to the conversation that I just stood face to face with a CN-? in my STK-M and after chasing each other around the base. We both stopped and just pounded each other. He took 6 LL(half my mech was already gone) to his center torso, 54 damage and he didn't even get opened. In fact he started orange and only turned red. This was point blank and neither one of us moving. This is getting ridiculous, it was not a side armor bug, it was him literally taking negligible damage.

[Angel of Annihilation]

I think they are bugged. For example, there was a zombie Cent running around the other night with a Dark Orange CT and no side torsos.I nailed him in the side solid with a quad LL burst. That is 36 damage total all of which should have transfered directly to his CT and likely knocked him out since he didn't have a side torso. Instead, the CT didn't even blink damage. It was like the CT was completely invulnerable from the sides despite having no arm or LT/RT section.

[5th Fedcom Rat]

The centurion is totally broken. The only thing stopping it from being the best mech in the game (though it probably was when SRMs were overpowered) is the fact it's a medium.

Just throw this on the giant pile of bugs the devs refuse to acknowledge let alone correct. And yet they want ANOTHER $80 kickstart from all of us.

[Deathlike]

Trick to beating Centurions: LEG THEM.

[Vaktor]

Its only a bug if it does not work the same with every other mech... if you hit the side torso on any other mech the damage that transfers is 50% the only difference is that it is a little harder to hit the CT of the centurion (much like the stalker) I have no problem coring a Centurion but I do wait until I have a clear shot at the CT (either that or I leg them).

The same advantage that gives the centurion the "zombie ability" also gives it the disadvantage of using a XL in them being a death sentence because it is so easy to shoot their side torso... It is a trade off

On the flip side it is totally worth it to use a XL in a Dragon or Catapult because it is so hard to hit their side torso but really easy to hit their center torso.

All mechs are not equal, all mechs have advantages and disadvantages. A Centurion can not use a XL effectively but uses a Standard engine like no ones business.

P.S. if you want to make the arms smaller it is going to mean it is going to be harder to blow off their arms so once again we have a trade off... When I pilot a Centi I have to be very careful about my arms because blowing off their weapon arm is so easy...

Edited by Vaktor, 25 June 2013 - 10:41 PM.

[JayVrb]

Fix this issue on all other mechs... leave the Centurion alone. Mediums are weak enough as is, no need to beat them into the ground anymore.... lest they rise again... like.....ZOMBIES?


*badum tss

[tuffy963]

Bump.

Fix, Re-balance. Something.

[Keifomofutu]

tuffy963, on 26 June 2013 - 04:10 PM, said:

Bump.

Fix, Re-balance. Something.

Rebalance your aim. Downwards.

[ManDaisy]

I dont really have a problem with this as it makes some mechs really good zombie sand some not. A centurion without its toughness... that would trully be useless.

Edited by ManDaisy, 26 June 2013 - 09:53 PM.

[ByteHacker]

Here is an idea, how about we don't fix this "bug". So that people who do make a conscious effort to keep the brawling mechanic alive by playing in a medium mech gets a decent chance of survival.

I'm sure most of the medium pilots don't mind. Its just the people piloting 6 PPC nonsense mechs that hate it when they hit you with 6 PPC's "To the chest" and see you not die that start raging because they couldn't kill you with their insanely powerful builds then shut down while we as cent pilots happily do the death dance around them and blow them to bits with srms.

[Just wanna play]

ByteHacker, on 27 June 2013 - 01:47 AM, said:

Here is an idea, how about we don't fix this "bug". So that people who do make a conscious effort to keep the brawling mechanic alive by playing in a medium mech gets a decent chance of survival.

I'm sure most of the medium pilots don't mind. Its just the people piloting 6 PPC nonsense mechs that hate it when they hit you with 6 PPC's "To the chest" and see you not die that start raging because they couldn't kill you with their insanely powerful builds then shut down while we as cent pilots happily do the death dance around them and blow them to bits with srms.

they use min-max build so you use bug abuse/aka cheating to counter them and take on a mech 2 weight classes above you?? come on now there's something even more wrong with that then putting 6 ppcs on 1 mech

and what about non cheese builds that still cant kill you???? and of course the person piloting the mech that can take hundreds of points of damage wouldn't mind the bug

Edited by Just wanna play, 27 June 2013 - 07:15 PM.

[Errinovar]

First, it's neither a bug nor a cheat/exploit. This phenomena works the same for every chassis in the game. All these tests can be directly applied to any model, simply shoot it in the arm, and then target the arm remains and continue shooting until you blow the core. The problem is people are aiming too high on the cent chassis, aim for the waist and if you hit them on the side it is direct damage to the side torso. Or better yet, either wait till they turn to fire to peg them directly or leg them.

[Just wanna play]

Errinovar, on 28 June 2013 - 03:40 AM, said:

First, it's neither a bug nor a cheat/exploit. This phenomena works the same for every chassis in the game. All these tests can be directly applied to any model, simply shoot it in the arm, and then target the arm remains and continue shooting until you blow the core. The problem is people are aiming too high on the cent chassis, aim for the waist and if you hit them on the side it is direct damage to the side torso. Or better yet, either wait till they turn to fire to peg them directly or leg them.

da heck you talking about? the damage reduction is working fine on all chassis except the cent, where the arms hit box remains even after being destroyed, if this was a problem on a mech like the atlas it would easily take 800 points of damage (to the ct it self, excludes damage already done) to kill it when all shots hit the destroyed side torso

[Angel of Annihilation]

Because Hunchback, on 30 May 2013 - 07:35 PM, said:

Sooo, why is it again that this matters all that much? Just shoot the legs off.

Because you shouldn't have to shoot off the legs to kill it. Once the Right and Left torso is knocked out, you should be able to hit the CT from any direction......just like the vast majority of every other mech in the game.

[Just wanna play]

Viktor Drake, on 28 June 2013 - 06:55 AM, said:

Because you shouldn't have to shoot off the legs to kill it. Once the Right and Left torso is knocked out, you should be able to hit the CT from any direction......just like the vast majority of every other mech in the game.

that and it means even if you kill it by legging it its still taking more damage then it really should, i want you to fight an atlas with the same bug and then tell me how it feels

[Bagheera]

I think the answer here is that we do with this what was done with DragonBowling.

Just start running 4-man ZombieCent squads and roflstomping with them until the playerbase realizes that the arm stub damage soaking is the problem it actually is for balance.

Or, hell, just do it solo. Annoy the crap out of the meta-chasers.

Edited by Bagheera, 28 June 2013 - 07:17 AM.

[Errinovar]

I just did a little testing to see how it shaped up. I used a 2xERPPC cent on training grounds.. I picked 3 different targets. The ERPPCs were firing simultaneously, so each hit was 20 damage. On each of these 3 mechs I shot at the shoulder, taking the arm, and then continuing through the arm to the side torso and finally the center torso. Here are the results.

Commando = 6 hits = 120 damage
Cicada = 8 hits = 160 damage
Atlas = 47 hits = 940 damage

Then to test my theory about targeting I went after the cent. I targeted at the elbow of the right arm and when the arm was gone it was hitting the small rectangular armor plate above the waist and below the arm.

Centurion = 12 hits = 240 damage

Now if you start hitting the arm stump on the Cent that number goes up, and the deal with the cent is, that the arm stump is big, so if you are aiming at chest height and it turns you are almost always going to hit the stump reducing the damage. But even still it will come nowhere close to the 47 it takes to do the same thing to an Atlas.