33 replies to this topic

[Lefty Lucy]

Not trying to brag, as obviously these numbers aren't exactly impressive, but I use them to start the conversation by offering some perspective.

My KDR is 1.57

My W/L is 1991/1221 = 1.63

I solo drop a lot, and I drop with my clan mates in 8 mans when possible or in 4 mans a bit less than I solo drop.

I think it's safe to say that while I'm not a great player, I am an above average player. And yet in many matches there are a lot of trial mechs. Trial mechs on my team. Trial mechs on the enemy team. These are very often obviously new players as well, as you can tell by watching them they don't quite have down a lot of the mechanics of the game, such as the fact that projectiles have flight time, LRMs and PPCs have a minimum range, they overheat a lot and wander around the maps, etc.

While I love the fact that MWO is continuing to attract new players, as they are the lifeblood of an online PVP game, I find it to be horribly discouraging that these new players are being dropped into games with veterans with over 3000 games under their belts. This is a monumental failure of the match maker, and it's obvious that the recent tweak to give new players their own elo bracket hasn't done much to stop it.

Even worse is that the trial mech system is still in place. Sure, the trial hunch or jenner are decent in the right hands, but look at the Jager. It's an over-heating, under-armored pile of crud. But new players see a lot of cool-looking gun barrels, and who wouldn't want do drive that thing?

I think the reason why this isn't being talked about or looked at is that us veterans have gotten to used to having these players in our games as easy kills. I usually like to play "kill the trial mechs last," but when we have things like the leaderboard contest a kill is a kill, and even though I'm not at the top I want to do as well as possible. This often means picking on the trial mechs. Which means picking on the new players.

It's a crap system, and needs an overhaul badly.

[hammerreborn]

There is already a new system being added with 2.0 that's supposed to get rid of the trials, there's the training grounds, and Elo is being tinkered with with regards to newer players.

The problem is when do we "release noobs into the wild"? 25 games, 100 kills, 1:1 kdr?

You can't really separate the two for too long because unless there's an extensive new player base joining newbs will take forever to find matches.

I agree that something needs to be done, but there aren't really that many available solutions for these types of games.

Edited by hammerreborn, 26 May 2013 - 12:29 PM.

[Lefty Lucy]

hammerreborn, on 26 May 2013 - 12:28 PM, said:

There is already a new system being added with 2.0 that's supposed to get rid of the trials, there's the training grounds, and Elo is being tinkered with with regards to newer players.

The problem is when do we "release noobs into the wild"? 25 games, 100 kills, 1:1 kdr?

You can't really separate the two for too long because unless there's an extensive new player base joining newbs will take forever to find matches.

I agree that something needs to be done, but there aren't really that many available solutions for these types of games.

I think a good solution would be to make a no-teams-allowed queue for new players where matches were limited to 4 v. 4. The player would be placed in this queue until they had completed their recruit bonus.

I also think that's a "pie in the sky" solution, especially considering how slow PGI implements changes to this game.

[hammerreborn]

Lefty Lucy, on 26 May 2013 - 12:48 PM, said:

I think a good solution would be to make a no-teams-allowed queue for new players where matches were limited to 4 v. 4. The player would be placed in this queue until they had completed their recruit bonus.

I also think that's a "pie in the sky" solution, especially considering how slow PGI implements changes to this game.

Maybe, but that's really only a bandaid solution, and I'd argue a poor one. I would think encouraging new players to find teammates to be more of a boon to learning the game than leaving them high and dry. Not to mention it doesn't solve the problem with veterans playing against newbs, just moves it to a pug only situation.

Id argue the best solutions would be in game chat, or at least in game links to the comstar TS. When I used to go there there were tons of helpful people in the education channel. Aiming, map awareness, and the like will come with time, but early knowledge and tips can keep a player around (like not buying a dragon/awesome off the bat)

[PEEFsmash]

In game chat would help quite a bit with player development, and it is mindblowing that a game that requires so much teamwork, more teamwork than almost any game I have played, would not have a in-game chat feature.

[Nauht]

Trial mechs are just that - trials. Alot of regular people use them to test the waters to see if they'd like to buy into a new chassis. I know I did for the Highlander and my favourite line, the Dragon, I only learned from playing the trial mech way back.

Also from last week's patch -

Quote

Match Making Update

- All new players starting the game will have 2 Elo scores assigned to them.
- New Player Elo = 1100 (N-Elo)
- Standard Player Elo = 1300 (S-Elo)
- Any new player (has 25 games or less in their history) will be using their N-Elo score to be matched with other players.
- The outcome of the game will affect both their N-Elo score and their S-Elo score.
- When the player has completed their 25th game, the N-Elo score is eliminated and the player from that point on will use their S-Elo score for match making.
- This change makes the initial experiences of a new player much easier and prevents the player from playing players with numerous matches under their belts.

[Screech]

Lefty Lucy, on 26 May 2013 - 12:48 PM, said:

I think a good solution would be to make a no-teams-allowed queue for new players where matches were limited to 4 v. 4. The player would be placed in this queue until they had completed their recruit bonus.

If they did something like that I think I would be making a new account every time I played. Trial mech only fights sound so incredibly appealing these days.

[Nicholas Carlyle]

Screech, on 26 May 2013 - 05:14 PM, said:

If they did something like that I think I would be making a new account every time I played. Trial mech only fights sound so incredibly appealing these days.

I have been tempted to do that as well.

[Nauht]

Yeah I'd be creating new accounts just to play stock mech only games.

[Ningyo]

I do think this is a problem, but lets face it its not just that stock mechs are crap (most are), but also that you have no mech exp skills in them, these are so massively overpowered now. I would challenge anyone to take a stock mech you have no exp skills in, and do fights in it till you get enough for all basic skills and record your stats, then get all basic and do same with those till you get to elite then same again.

I bet you would become nearly twice as good with all basic, and with all elite 3-4 times maybe even. (especially an assault one, lack of turning speed makes you dead vs any light/medium with a brain)

compound that, with the crappy trial mechs, and being new to the game and well I bet most new players only get 1 kill/ 5 games or less to start.

[Snowhawk]

I saw several players with Highlanders (current trial mech) who did under 40 damage (!!!). I think pgi should improve the matchmaker in a way that new players are meeting other beginners and casual gamers. And of course... 4 man premades should have a high chance to meet other premade teams.

[Sephlock]

[MCXL]

I am not accusing PGI of outright lying about ELO, but until they add a way to see where in the scale you land there is just no way to confirm that it is working as intended or not, or even if it exists. My stats aren't amazing, but I know that I play well, yet I have a similar experience to Lefty.

Even if it was simply brackets that put you into categories, not necessarily leader boards, but like brackets of 5% of the player base a piece (per weight class), it would go a long way to seeing the stratification of the player base based on skill.

I personally don't see any difference in the matchmaking over pre ELO era, though a lot of that is because of the lack of re spawns, and the snowball mechanic that introduces.

[Lefty Lucy]

Nauht, on 26 May 2013 - 03:44 PM, said:

Trial mechs are just that - trials. Alot of regular people use them to test the waters to see if they'd like to buy into a new chassis. I know I did for the Highlander and my favourite line, the Dragon, I only learned from playing the trial mech way back.

Also from last week's patch -

Yeah, I'm saying that last week's patch hasn't done much to separate the new players from the vets.

[Deathlike]

What, the 25 match buffer reduction of only 200 pts ELO difference is not enough? NO WAI.

The reality is, trial mechs screw newbies over, regardless of what ELO bracket they are in.

Also, newbies having finished their trial ELO bracket suddenly jump into a shark tank while they have no idea how to best use the money they were given.

Most/all of which could have been solved with training missions.

[Sephlock]

Deathlike, on 27 May 2013 - 12:16 PM, said:

What, the 25 match buffer reduction of only 200 pts ELO difference is not enough? NO WAI.

The reality is, trial mechs screw newbies over, regardless of what ELO bracket they are in.

Also, newbies having finished their trial ELO bracket suddenly jump into a shark tank while they have no idea how to best use the money they were given.

Most/all of which could have been solved with training missions.

[Regrets]

Agreed OP

All trial mechs should be viable builds. Get rid of single heat sinks and 'canon' versions of the trial mechs. Poeple have been begging to get to vote some mechs like a mech building contest weekly that would be awesome. Not addressing other economy problems players should at least have an ok mech to start..

[Sephlock]

They just need to accelerate the community-designed trial mech program.

The Awesome in particular desperately needs this.

[armyof1]

Just DHS all the trial mechs and they'd suddenly become almost twice as good. It'd take very little effort to do and the difference would be very considerable. It just amazes me why such an easy change have yet to be done.

[SmoothCriminal]

the game needs a novice v novice game mode, at least for a few games. The amount of people who are probably be dissuaded by getting annihilated from a min/maxed assault could well be hurting the game.

there is also an hilarious skill curve that the training grounds doesnt fit. There needs to be a walkthrough guide to how mechs are customised, and what each element entails.

trial mechs should be replaced with more champion mechs. People should not be dealing with Jager Ss...