133 replies to this topic

[tuokaerf]

jeffsw6, on 26 May 2013 - 10:16 PM, said:

They do owe me an answer. I am the customer.

That doesn't mean thy need to tell us everything...statements like that make us sound entitled.

[Sephlock]

[OpCentar]

Victor Morson, on 26 May 2013 - 11:27 PM, said:

Contrary to what you'd like to believe, boating does not make or break individual gun balance.

Yeah right, and the various LRM assault boats, the ever-so-boatable A1 'Cat and various Stalkers are prime examples of boats which do not break weapon balance.

Thank whatever deity you worship that we don't have a ballistic assault or we would all be getting cored in two shots by triple Gauss or AC/20 boats.

[MustrumRidcully]

There is some indication by what the say themselves that they balance stuff in cycles, going from one weapon to the next.

What I see as the problem here is that it doesn't work so well, because it's trying to fix stuff in isolation without seeing the whole picture.

[Asmudius Heng]

MustrumRidcully, on 27 May 2013 - 02:10 AM, said:

There is some indication by what the say themselves that they balance stuff in cycles, going from one weapon to the next.

What I see as the problem here is that it doesn't work so well, because it's trying to fix stuff in isolation without seeing the whole picture.

I have been saying since closed beta - Balance is an ecosystem.

Small changes in isolation always lead to results that are way beyond what you would think. Everything fits into each other and a grand vision of how each weapon and mech and game mode should work is not done or even imagined.

They often state that players continually surprise them on how they play the game with changes - i think that is a cop out. The general forum goer usualy picks the EXACT problem with the change before it goes live and is proven correct. It isnt THAT hard.

I feel they have a vision of balance there they want hard counters all the time and no nuance. They want a system where one extreme an trump the other, but can be trumped by something else. While this is a form of balance there is no nuance, there is no subtley.

An a game that is DEFINED by competition - they need to look at how competative people play and balance on that form of high level balance ecosystem and then make thier balancing 'passes' much much quicker.

[MustrumRidcully]

Quote

I feel they have a vision of balance there they want hard counters all the time and no nuance. They want a system where one extreme an trump the other, but can be trumped by something else. While this is a form of balance there is no nuance, there is no subtley.

I like to call it a "fragile balance". One outlier, and everything breaks apart.

Startrek Online suffers from the same problem. You have ridicilious healing and resistances stacked up on the defense side, and ridicilious damage buffs on the other side. If you "nerf" the healing side, the game will completely break apart, and vice versa. And that leads to an overall very silly game that encourages only extremist builds, and anyone and anything that can't or won't do it sucks. Changing that cannot happen without adjusting both sides, which requires having a complete picture.

[Sybreed]

Victor Morson, on 26 May 2013 - 11:27 PM, said:

Contrary to what you'd like to believe, boating does not make or break individual gun balance.

I'd tend to disagree. One or 2 PPC isn't really OP. 4 and more is... same goes for LRMs. You wouldn't have LRMapocalypses if you couldn't fire 80 LRMs at once.

[Victor Morson]

Sybreed, on 27 May 2013 - 03:58 AM, said:

I'd tend to disagree. One or 2 PPC isn't really OP. 4 and more is... same goes for LRMs. You wouldn't have LRMapocalypses if you couldn't fire 80 LRMs at once.

Again this is really a symptom of assaults being super common with no limiting factor than it is the guns themselves.

I do not have a problem with an assault boating 4 LRMs or PPCs at all. It's fine. However when 80% of the 'mechs on the field are capable of it, that's when it becomes really annoying.

Try boating 4 PPCs on a Medium and you'll see boating really isn't the issue, but having teams be made up of nothing but assaults sure is.

PS: People who really don't even like driving assaults generally have moved to assaults in public settings because if you're running mediums you're kinda screwing your team in 8-mans, where there's not even token balance outside of ELO which is a serious joke.

[Caleb Brightmore]

jeffsw6, on 26 May 2013 - 10:16 PM, said:

They do owe me an answer. I am the customer.

UM.... Stop acting like they DON'T owe you an answer is the same as saying they OWE you an answer so you don't need a petition.
In other words read first then answer.
It stops you from saying the exact same thing and trying to argue with it as if it were different.

[Pale Jackal]

I'd like to say ECM is far from useless. I'd still take it on almost every 'mech I own, if I could.

The ability to un-noticed at long ranges is very useful. Sniping with 2 PPCs is much easier in a 3M when compared to a X-5.

I'd be OK with a "softer" counter to ECM, only if ECM was nerfed some other way. ECM is a 1.5 ton 2 crit package of pure awesome. My problem with ECM is that it's so good, you should always take it. Even with the BAP buff.

[MaddMaxx]

Quote

And that shrunken hamburger patty composed of gristle and soybean product...is not what you thought you were paying for...

And welcome to the F2P model where Armchair Developers all get to gripe for "Free". At least in the old days, everyone paid and then got to complain, as is today the Communit(ies) have to put up with so much white noise it is a wonder the Dev have issue cutting through it...

Edited by MaddMaxx, 27 May 2013 - 08:02 AM.

[Lightfoot]

What is wrong with the balance other than LRMs are a little weak? Long range works better on big maps, short range works better on small maps. You will really only want a short range focused mech in a city setting or similar. Otherwise you bring some short and some long to medium range.

MechWarrior is a tactical game based on map enviorments because it is a sim-shooter. If you try to brawl on Alpine you will be toast unless you have alot of screening from your team.

I have played MW2- MW4 and I think MWO has very good weapon balance. I think what you see is the classic there is always one weapon that is best conundrum.

[jeffsw6]

Caleb Brightmore, on 27 May 2013 - 07:43 AM, said:

UM.... Stop acting like they DON'T owe you an answer is the same as saying they OWE you an answer so you don't need a petition.
In other words read first then answer.
It stops you from saying the exact same thing and trying to argue with it as if it were different.

The only post in this thread I had trouble comprehending is yours.

Did you express an opinion, for or against, the OP's suggestion? Are you just crying because I pointed out that we are the (paying) customers? Did I waste space in your browser cache?

[MustrumRidcully]

Actually, I don't want statements.

I want a dialogue. Let's talk about this sh*t, back and & forth, let's try to figure out why people think the game is unbalanced, how you can show the imbalances and how you can fix them.

Statements might just end up with stuff like "With true DHS, Jenners core an Atlas in 3 seconds"... and we don#t get to say "err, excuse me, what build would that be, there aren't many weapons that can be shot more than once in 3 seconds that a Jenner can carry... And so on.

[Mister Blastman]

Oh, PPCs and Gauss /are/ too good. Being able to hit a pinpoint location from 500 - 1000 meters away every single time with very little effort is ridiculously overpowered. Pouring 35 - 45 damage into a single spot from that range over and over again is just absurd.

Convergence is the problem and will always be the problem. Getting rid of it entirely would make this game exceedingly interesting having to re-align your shot for each and every weapon. Incredible things would happen to this game immediately!

But, I've made many threads on this in the past and PGI has never issued a response in any of them. They also refuse to answer any of these questions in ask the devs.

So--I agree with lots of what the OP says but not everything. Thus, I can't vote.

[Slash Beastleo]

They obviously need to put patches every week to find balance and not just two times a month.

[MaddMaxx]

MustrumRidcully, on 27 May 2013 - 08:07 AM, said:

Actually, I don't want statements.

I want a dialogue. Let's talk about this sh*t, back and & forth, let's try to figure out why people think the game is unbalanced, how you can show the imbalances and how you can fix them.

Statements might just end up with stuff like "With true DHS, Jenners core an Atlas in 3 seconds"... and we don#t get to say "err, excuse me, what build would that be, there aren't many weapons that can be shot more than once in 3 seconds that a Jenner can carry... And so on.

Let's have a Poll in which we will select the representative(s) maybe 2, from the Forums who will be the designated Spokesperson and be they who will hold said dialogue for all of us, as surely attempting to do so with 1-2 reps from PGI and 1500 Forum members is not going to work, or ever happen.

I will nominate MustrumRidcully to be put on the Poll ballet. Yah or Nay

Edited by MaddMaxx, 27 May 2013 - 09:03 AM.

[FupDup]

MaddMaxx, on 27 May 2013 - 09:02 AM, said:

Let's have a Poll in which we will select the representative(s) maybe 2, from the Forums who will be the designated Spokesperson and be they who will hold said dialogue for all of us, as surely attempting to do so with 1-2 reps from PGI and 1500 Forum members is not going to work, or ever happen.

I will nominate MustrumRidcully to be put on the Poll ballet. Yah or Nay

Yay.

[Jabilo]

I would like to know what's happening with LRMs.

They said there was a problem and that it would be fixed next patch.

Then they stated the "fix" was going to be pushed out in a hotfix (and there was indeed a hotfix).

Now no further statement.

So what now? Is this it for LRMs? Are they where they are supposed to be? Will further changes be made in the next patch? If not, when?

To me they seem pretty broken. I have taken them back of the mech and am awaiting further news.

LRMs have been a debacle. If they are having some technical problems with them then that is absolutely fine with me. This stuff happens. However, would be great for them to say:

• These are the problems
  
• This is what we need to do
  
• This is a rough timeline

Right now I am losing faith with weapons balance.

So yeah, a weapon by weapon statement would be great.

[MaddMaxx]

Quote

To me they seem pretty broken.

Could you elaborate. They have been modified 4 different ways just last week. Damage, Flight, Splash, Spread. Which is the broken one and why? How many flights did you shoot before you shelved them? 5?

Edited by MaddMaxx, 27 May 2013 - 09:46 AM.