31 replies to this topic

[Alistair Winter]

Draconis March, on 03 December 2013 - 08:56 AM, said:

The fact that this guide doesn't have the zombie build (almost unanimously accepted as the best Centurion build out there) makes me very dubious of the entire thing. Also, case doesn't do jack when you have an XL engine.

The zombie build has fallen from grace, in my opinion. Sometimes the SRMs do catastrophic damage, other times it's like showering your enemies with rose petals. It's too unpredictable before they fix hit registration. Not to mention that it's a one trick pony like no other. If you're going to limit yourself to weapons with 270 meter range, I think you should pick a smaller and faster mech than the Centurion.

grml666, on 03 December 2013 - 09:47 AM, said:

It's a STD Engine 275, 3x SRM6 in the left torso, case and 5x SRM Ammo in the right torso. Max Armor but 33 in both legs and 14 in the head. 89,1 without speadtweek.
I don't like to store my ammo in the legs, because when I am playing lights and have to go 1vs1 against a healthy assault most of the time I am going for the legs. It depends to the loadout and if there is the propability for stored ammo. Usually it's the weakest point resp. the lowest armor with ammo inside.

Again, I don't like the Centurion with 3xSRM6. Having said that, it seems that if you lose your left torso with your build, you've been disarmed. If you lose your right torso, you've been disarmed. So why use an STD engine?

Sable Dove, on 04 December 2013 - 04:37 PM, said:

The tips you give are solid, but most of your builds are not so great. Aside from the AL and the Wang, there is no reason to ever put weapons in the right arm. Most competitive Centurions use the right side to block, while cramming as many SRMs in the LT as possible and a pair of ML in the CT.
Just about the only reason to ever use the RA is with the CN9-AL (because you can put a pair of ML in there), or with the AC/20 Wang. The arm just gets blown off too easily to justify putting a significant amount of weaponry in it unless you can use the AC/20.
CN9-A
CN9-D
CN9-AL
CN9-A is easily the best, and the -D is overall the worst. AL at least can make use of the right arm without a huge investment. Even with {Scrap} hit registration on SRMs, the Centurion is generally best when stuffed with as many SRMs as possible, and the CN9-A is best in that regard.

Again, I don't think the CN9 SRM-boat is that good, and certainly not for beginners. It takes a tremendous amount of skill to be effective against light mechs with that build, and I'm not sure new players should start out with such one trick ponies, especially if it means running away whenever they see a Spider.

Artgathan, on 05 December 2013 - 09:31 AM, said:

Just a point to note: no medium (the Centurion included), is able to out-maneuver any Heavy / Assault mech. An Atlas with a 300-Engine can turn at a rate of roughly 44 degrees / second, meaning that if you're any further than 50 metres from it, the Atlas can track you just by turning (not even torso twisting. Just by mashing A / D they can keep up). To be able to evade (IE: run faster than the Atlas can turn) at 100 metres, you would need to be running at 266 kph.
The guide is OK; the builds are sub-par. CASE? No one really uses case except die-hard "lore" junkies. It's useless in-game. Put the ammunition in the Head / Legs. A 10% risk of explosion is hardly enough reason to justify wasting 5% of the mech's tonnage that could be devoted to thicker armor / more heatsinks.
That said, I've used builds similar to those posted and they're pretty good for their respective roles. As I dig more and more into MW:O though, I find that Mediums in general do better as fire-support mechs (since they can lower the size of their engine and just grab more weapons).

I must admit, I don't use CASE any more. But I don't like putting ammo in the head, since everyone is spamming artillery and airstrike these days, and I don't want an ammo explosion when those thing occassionally hit my cockpit.

Not sure what you mean by fire support mechs though. If you mean long range fire support, then I'd say that the Shadowhawk is a better choice.

Aleski, on 21 December 2013 - 04:12 AM, said:

What do you think about that on the Classic YLW build?
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...23e3a524a5c207b
You had the FF armor, and you can have max armor. And i remove the case and put the munitions in the legs and cockpit.
A little amelioration of your build =)
I have to try the 2xUAC/5 build! But i think it's a better idea to use a XL255, it's an engine that you can use on all of the spiders variants for example. At the price of a XL engine, it's good if you can use it an other mech too!

I like this, except for the ammo in the cockpit. I know it's not very likely to get an ammo explosion there, but it's far more likely these days than it used to be!

[Artgathan]

Alistair Winter, on 24 December 2013 - 07:15 PM, said:

I must admit, I don't use CASE any more. But I don't like putting ammo in the head, since everyone is spamming artillery and airstrike these days, and I don't want an ammo explosion when those thing occassionally hit my cockpit.

Not sure what you mean by fire support mechs though. If you mean long range fire support, then I'd say that the Shadowhawk is a better choice.

I don't think an ammo explosion will be your biggest problem if an arty strike lands on your head lol

By fire support mechs I meant any sort of "sniper" or "DPS" build. Think PPCs / low calibur autocannons (2 / 5) + LL / ER LLs. Something like the 3 AC/2 Shadowhawk.

I've been brawling *effectively* in the Wolverines as of late, using SRM / Pulse Laser builds, but I might be effective only because most players in my Elo bracket panic when getting face-hugged by a 100+ kph jumping mech spitting SRM18 volleys every 3 seconds. Against any semi-competent player I typically get mauled when facing Heavy / Assault mechs.

I'd definitely agree with your assessment of the Shadowhawk being superior for fire support (due to the high gun mount in the shoulder). I used to run a 2 UAC5 Blackjack with some success back in the day, but I could never get into it.

[luxebo]

Thanks for fixing this Destined and miSs.

Edited by luxebo, 24 December 2013 - 09:28 PM.

[Alistair Winter]

Artgathan, on 24 December 2013 - 07:28 PM, said:

I don't think an ammo explosion will be your biggest problem if an arty strike lands on your head lol

For me, it's the biggest concern, unless I'm already in very bad shape. For some reason, they usually just do a lot of splash damage, except when they zero in and instantly strip my cockpit armour.

Artgathan, on 24 December 2013 - 07:28 PM, said:

By fire support mechs I meant any sort of "sniper" or "DPS" build. Think PPCs / low calibur autocannons (2 / 5) + LL / ER LLs. Something like the 3 AC/2 Shadowhawk.
I've been brawling *effectively* in the Wolverines as of late, using SRM / Pulse Laser builds, but I might be effective only because most players in my Elo bracket panic when getting face-hugged by a 100+ kph jumping mech spitting SRM18 volleys every 3 seconds. Against any semi-competent player I typically get mauled when facing Heavy / Assault mechs.

I just think other medium mechs do that better than the Centurion. If you put 2 PPC in the CN9-AL, then you're at a disadvantage against medium mechs with 2 PPCs and jump jets. And if they blow off that huge arm, you've got very little going on. Same with the CN9-D with UAC5+AC5 in one arm. It's all fun and games untill they blow that arm off. And with such a low slung arm, you suck at ridge humping.
And as you say, SRM boat are far more scary when they have jump jets. I wouldn't call them "brawlers" though. More like strikers, because they do rely on evading damage instead of absorbing it.

Artgathan, on 24 December 2013 - 07:28 PM, said:

I'd definitely agree with your assessment of the Shadowhawk being superior for fire support (due to the high gun mount in the shoulder). I used to run a 2 UAC5 Blackjack with some success back in the day, but I could never get into it.

Well, the Blackjack used to have the advantage of high ballistic mounts, but now the Shadowhawk has got that covered too. With 10 more tons to boot. I do think the Blackjack still has a niche in normal PUG games.

Destined, on 24 December 2013 - 08:56 PM, said:

Hay guise what's going on in this....
....
.
.
yeah. Cute. Merry Christmas, those of you who aren't terrible.

miSs, on 24 December 2013 - 09:27 PM, said:

Merry Christmas, Destined and those of you who aren't terrible.

Did the PGI mods just visit my thread to troll? Or did they save my thread from trolls? What's going on here?

miSs, on 24 December 2013 - 09:49 PM, said:

We've seen it all, yo!

Have you seen this? (NSFW. Nudity, girl on girl action)

[luxebo]

Alistair Winter, on 25 December 2013 - 06:58 AM, said:

For me, it's the biggest concern, unless I'm already in very bad shape. For some reason, they usually just do a lot of splash damage, except when they zero in and instantly strip my cockpit armour.

I just think other medium mechs do that better than the Centurion. If you put 2 PPC in the CN9-AL, then you're at a disadvantage against medium mechs with 2 PPCs and jump jets. And if they blow off that huge arm, you've got very little going on. Same with the CN9-D with UAC5+AC5 in one arm. It's all fun and games untill they blow that arm off. And with such a low slung arm, you suck at ridge humping.
And as you say, SRM boat are far more scary when they have jump jets. I wouldn't call them "brawlers" though. More like strikers, because they do rely on evading damage instead of absorbing it.

Well, the Blackjack used to have the advantage of high ballistic mounts, but now the Shadowhawk has got that covered too. With 10 more tons to boot. I do think the Blackjack still has a niche in normal PUG games.

Did the PGI mods just visit my thread to troll? Or did they save my thread from trolls? What's going on here?

They saved your thread from derailing into a fully offensive thread for or against PGI and it's moderators. Thank god it's all cleaned up.

Now, to return back on topic...
I think that Centurions are really brawlers that can tank. CN9-A and AL should use a Standard engine in my opinion because of the survival factor. XL without going very fast is not that good. However, on the YLW and D, XL is fully acceptable as long as you reach over 100 kph in my opinion. Also, arm mounted weapons shouldn't be heavy, or you will end with quite some weaponry lost (exceptions on YLW, as you've no choice but to remember which arm is your shield arm.) All the other Centurions have additional missile backup.

[Alistair Winter]

luxebo, on 25 December 2013 - 11:10 AM, said:

They saved your thread from derailing into a fully offensive thread for or against PGI and it's moderators. Thank god it's all cleaned up.

Ah, I'm sorry I missed the show, but I'm glad they didn't just send this guide into K-town!

luxebo, on 25 December 2013 - 11:10 AM, said:

Now, to return back on topic...
I think that Centurions are really brawlers that can tank. CN9-A and AL should use a Standard engine in my opinion because of the survival factor. XL without going very fast is not that good. However, on the YLW and D, XL is fully acceptable as long as you reach over 100 kph in my opinion. Also, arm mounted weapons shouldn't be heavy, or you will end with quite some weaponry lost (exceptions on YLW, as you've no choice but to remember which arm is your shield arm.) All the other Centurions have additional missile backup.

How does that work though? Tanking (i.e. drawing attention to yourself and absorbing damage while your teammates attack) only works if you're an attractive target. And if I see some Centurion with relatively light armament (due to having a big STD engine), it's not really a big concern of mine. I'll start attacking a Jagermech with 3 UAC5 or some other mech that is likely to have an XL engine.

If I wanted to tank, I would use an Atlas, because those things actually do draw attention to themselves, even if they have a big STD350 engine and less weapons than usual. A tank doesn't really need speed, as I see it.

I agree that arm weapons shouldn't be heavy, but on the other hand most Centurions will always have 2 Medium lasers and 2 or 3 SSRMs as backup weapons, unless they're going with 3 SRM4 or 3 SRM6 + Artemis. So if your secondary weapons are 2 medium lasers and 3 SSRMs (i.e. about as much firepower as a light mech), you may as well carry some big guns and try to do some damage before it gets blown off. Focus on doing as much damage as possible before they start ripping your arms off. The Centurion really can do a lot of damage without being noticed, especially with the AC10, which doesn't constantly shake your target's cockpit like an AC2 or UAC5, and doesn't feel like an earthquake, like the AC20.

[Inflatable Fish]

I've noticed that more often than not, I'm considered an "unattractive target" by the enemy team even if I'm running about in the Wang. I guess people have gotten so used to centurions being moderate threats at best that they skip them even if they're right there under their noses, wrecking stuff.

on a semi-related note, I've actually noticed a slight improvement in the SRM damage registration. maybe I just got lucky a few times, but for some reason my 2ML/3ASRM6 9-A has been performing much better lately.

[POOTYTANGASAUR]

The centurion is one of the best brawlers in game. I would argue that its the best other than certain atlas builds and certain cataphract builds. The centurion is extremely capable of absorbing damage and shelling out damage as well. It can fit large standard or xl engines allowing for speed and extremely fast torso twist. It can fit large ballistics, hoards of srms, or dual erppcs. The centurion is definitely a workhorse but can be used as a mid-weight sniper platform or a very tough light hunter. I personally own 34 mechs. I refuse to drive highlanders and lights but other than that have one or two at least of each mech platform. I consider myself well equipped to judge a mech of its usability. The centurion ranks a 10 of 10 on my list of usefullness. I have mounted hordes of builds and it has done nearly every single on well. The shadowhawk is quite a good platform now but there are some builds that the shadowhawk can't handle that the centurion can also the centurion has an energy variant which the shadowhawk doesn't.

[luxebo]

Alistair Winter, on 25 December 2013 - 11:52 AM, said:

How does that work though? Tanking (i.e. drawing attention to yourself and absorbing damage while your teammates attack) only works if you're an attractive target. And if I see some Centurion with relatively light armament (due to having a big STD engine), it's not really a big concern of mine. I'll start attacking a Jagermech with 3 UAC5 or some other mech that is likely to have an XL engine.

If I wanted to tank, I would use an Atlas, because those things actually do draw attention to themselves, even if they have a big STD350 engine and less weapons than usual. A tank doesn't really need speed, as I see it.

I agree that arm weapons shouldn't be heavy, but on the other hand most Centurions will always have 2 Medium lasers and 2 or 3 SSRMs as backup weapons, unless they're going with 3 SRM4 or 3 SRM6 + Artemis. So if your secondary weapons are 2 medium lasers and 3 SSRMs (i.e. about as much firepower as a light mech), you may as well carry some big guns and try to do some damage before it gets blown off. Focus on doing as much damage as possible before they start ripping your arms off. The Centurion really can do a lot of damage without being noticed, especially with the AC10, which doesn't constantly shake your target's cockpit like an AC2 or UAC5, and doesn't feel like an earthquake, like the AC20.

The biggest Standard engine still doesn't allow very much speed on A or AL, which is why I think those should be taken. But XL on YLW and D because you can go more than 100 kph without speed tweak. True though, if the Centurion didn't have a major weaponry in hand (like potentially game-changing or easy to shoot off, such as maybe dual Ultra AC5s/AC5s, gauss, or SRMs), I would go after something else.

Yeah, Atli are the best at tanking, no matter what config they have. I used to use the trial Atlas before it got replaced by Highlander trial and that thing usually died with no weapons left. Then again I often lose multiple weapons before dying, maybe due to me always defensively torso twisting.

Once again arm weapons depend on the situation. You really don't want to haul a large weapon (dual AC5s, dual ER PPCs, gauss, etc) with that hand, because it's even easier to shoot the arm off then shoot a Hunchies hunch off. And I know how often the hunch gets shot off (not very often shot off me after I learned how to generally play the game.)

I personally think that the Centurion really shines with multiple people (but so as many other mechs.) The thing with the Centurion is that multiple people driving the same sort of role Mediums and Heavies can really fight it out. I once had a group of 4 with the Cent trial and we pretty much just charged in and destroyed everyone one by one due to overwhelming numbers. However, my observations are sorta late, so I'm not quite sure how the hitbox revisions changed Centurions, not to mention the new Shadow Hawk, Griffin, and Wolverine taking over the Centurion as well. But I do want to say that the guide does point many good things out.

[Alistair Winter]

Well, I did try out the Griffin with 3xSRM6+Artemis today, and... it's not bad. So I can see why some people have gone back to putting SRMs on their Centurions.

But I'm not convinced that the Centurion is the best medium SRM boat.

[juxstapo]

Alistair, whether or not I agree 100% with the builds/tactics (mostly stemming from the fact that I didn't enjoy Cents at all), I did thoroughly enjoy the read. The ex-lit-major (wound up changing majors a bunch of times, but literature was in there for awhile), says you write well bro, very engaging diction. Almost makes me want to attempt Centurions again... almost

[Alistair Winter]

juxstapo, on 26 December 2013 - 01:13 PM, said:

Alistair, whether or not I agree 100% with the builds/tactics (mostly stemming from the fact that I didn't enjoy Cents at all), I did thoroughly enjoy the read. The ex-lit-major (wound up changing majors a bunch of times, but literature was in there for awhile), says you write well bro, very engaging diction. Almost makes me want to attempt Centurions again... almost

Much appreciated! I will use you as a reference if anyone should ever say otherwise!

I must admit I don't play the Centurion as much as I used to. The CN9-AL was my favourite mech for a long time, but today I do better with other mechs. The Centurion-experience isn't really unique enough to keep me hooked, unlike other sub-par mechs of mine. But we can't all be piloting Highlanders and Shadowhawks. That's why I love Helmstif's "Ultimate Awesome guide", and why I figured it was time to update this guide