34 replies to this topic

[Drunk Canuck]

Working as intended. Welcome to playing the way the game was originally designed. In MechWarrior 3, you could shoot off a light Mech's leg and they were dead, at least in single player anyway, don't remember whether it was the same in multiplayer.

[CGB Behemoth]

What should happen for light to be legged?
1) He must be alphaed with heavy or assault
2) Shot with laserboats like Hunchee-4P or BlackJack-1X
3) Fallen from above too much

What should we say to light pilot getting one of this?
1) Hey friend! Try to play like light, not little assault!
2) Attack from behind or flank & be prepared to run!
3) Sell the light and play some other mech that fits you style!
4) What about playing SIMS instead?

Edited by Behemothk, 29 May 2013 - 03:05 PM.

[Sable Dove]

JuiceCaboose, on 28 May 2013 - 05:54 PM, said:

Awww, someone else is upset that his assault Raven isn't as strong as it used to be, and now it has to be a scout. That's adorable.

First, I pilot Jenners and Spiders, and second, playing as a scout doesn't make a difference when enemies can nearly kill you with the press of a single button at 800m with very little skill involved. No matter where it hits, and no matter my armour, it's going to take whatever it hits so low in health that a stiff wind will destroy it, if it's not destroyed already.

Even with maxed leg armour, high-alpha builds can destroy a Spider's leg in literally one shot (or arm, or head, or side torso, and this is assuming that you dump all armour into the front, and that's where you're hit). From outside of sensor range. Yeah, I'd better stick to scouting, because clearly the problem is that I'm trying to brawl. How dare I have the nerve to get within 800m of an enemy.

And for the record, I didn't say Assaults didn't take any skill; just that the ratio of skill to power is the lowest of the classes. 40+ point alphas with pinpoint aiming and near-instant convergence, from long ranges, as well as lots of armour in return for being slower (but still having good turning ability, for most), and a bigger target. It doesn't take much skill to bring a lot of power to the fight in an Assault.

Whereas lights require much more awareness of their surroundings, and need to have much more precise aim to deal any significant damage, and have only speed as a defense, while many enemies can cripple or kill them in 1-2 shots. Shots that are not hard to make because most large mechs still have fast turning rates, and generally have a very wide arc in which they can fire. Lights bring much less power to the table, while requiring much more piloting skill and situational awareness just so they aren't killed in one or two shots.

Not to mention assaults often just boat Streaks as their anti-light weapon, which makes it almost impossible for a light to be any real threat to an assault.

This is just one of the ways PGI is artificially making lights less powerful. There are others, such as how heavier mechs can fall further without taking damage, and any fall damage they take is rather insignificant; in reality, if the Highlander were to power down at the top of its jump, odds are it would severely damage, if not destroy its own legs, while a light falling from the same height would take minimal damage, if any.
As well, when landing from a height, even with jumpjets, lights experience a rather significant slowdown that makes them much easier to hit, even if it's only briefly, while heavies and assaults, which don't rely on their mobility for survival, barely notice the effects.

Edited by Sable Dove, 29 May 2013 - 03:45 PM.

[Hastur Azargo]

Sable Dove, on 29 May 2013 - 03:44 PM, said:

First, I pilot Jenners and Spiders, and second, playing as a scout doesn't make a difference when enemies can nearly kill you with the press of a single button at 800m with very little skill involved. No matter where it hits, and no matter my armour, it's going to take whatever it hits so low in health that a stiff wind will destroy it, if it's not destroyed already.

Man, as someone who pilots almost everything, I have to tell you that even an abomination like a 6PPC Stalker must put a considerable amount of aiming skill if he wants to hit a Jenner at 800m range.

Not to mention that, what you say assumes that something big is actually fighting your Jenner or especially Spider. That, assuming correct tactical flow of battle, is bound to happen only if you're the last one left on your team, because otherwise, that shouldn't be happening.

Here's what I learned piloting lights.

If you're scouting:
1. If you have ECM, you can scout and spot safely. So long as you don't give away your position by firing lasers, chances that people will spot you with their bare eyes are minimal.
2. If you don't have ECM, then you're a kind of a comabt light, so scouting should be mobile and careful. Yes, if you give them time to aim, they gonna blast you, especially if you're the only red triangle on their screens. You gotta get into their heads, and more so as a light pilot. You're fragile, ffs.

If you're fighting:

1. Know when to fight. No you can't run alone into their assault blob and keep running around, throwing streaks at them. Why the hell would you expect that to be possible, unless they all are very very bad?
Let's be honest here. After ballistic HSR you can't do that with any light. Or a Cicada. Or a Treb. Or even a freaking cavalry Dragon, ffs, with all the Jumping Scotsmen around, they're gonna alpha down whatever single thing they see running into them. You would do that too, and no, you can't expect to survive 300+ pinpoint damage through forgiving game mechanics, especially not when you brought that upon yourself.

Wait for your assaults to engage. Your enemy is much less likely to pay attention to you if they already have a bunch of Atlases and Cats to worry about.

2. Know who to fight. Very few people run dedicated light hunter builds, and even if they do, then you can always put them into a situation when engaging you means turning their back on your assaults, hence - suicide. More often than not they won't do it, unless again, they're very bad, which they will pay for shortly.

3. Know how to fight. In a new world of BAP, 3L's often wish they were Jenners, because Jens bring respectable firepower with incredible speed and superior mobility. But you must know how to put that to a good use, using a wide range of skills from being good with lasers to being able to get into your enemy's head. If you can do that, you can be ahead of them, and being a light allows you to get a lot out of that advantage.

Hell, just reading this thread made me wanna go buy some Spiders. I already know I'm gonna love them.

[Deathlike]

Drunk Canuck, on 29 May 2013 - 02:43 PM, said:

Working as intended. Welcome to playing the way the game was originally designed. In MechWarrior 3, you could shoot off a light Mech's leg and they were dead, at least in single player anyway, don't remember whether it was the same in multiplayer.

It was the same. The only thing that I recall was different was that you didn't nuke everyone on an overheat death in multiplayer.

[Ralgas]

The change means no running off at meduim mech speed to go play capwarrior when legged, plain and simple. You get legged and survive you play "whos the better pilot" now

[Aegic]

Sable Dove, on 29 May 2013 - 03:44 PM, said:

And for the record, I didn't say Assaults didn't take any skill; just that the ratio of skill to power is the lowest of the classes.

Thats exactly what you said you are correct.

I still say I disagree.

Also, I dont know what kind of houdini pilots you are dropping against but lasers need to stay on target to do full damage. If you are running full tilt no one should be able to do that reliably. I find scouts hard to hit when circling me fast let alone actually aim at a specific part.

As I said if you have max armor on your legs with an upgraded xl you shouldnt run into too many legging issues (provided you use cover, use your allies, and use your speed).

Thats another thing, speed is not your only defense. You are also so very small. You also get the most out of jumpjets if you use them.

I play a pretty mean Atlas but I got my rear handed to me by a jenner with 4 medium lasers and jumpjets. It took him a while but between my 4 medium lasers, ac/20 and srm 6 I could not put him down for the life of me. Doesnt happen often, but that is just one example.

As far as falling damage. I totally agree with you that it needs to be changed. EVERYONE should have to feather their jumpjets or suffer leg damage to a very noticeable degree. That will help with poptarts too. I am sure this is on the drawing board and may even have something to do with unit collision.

[FrDrake]

Don't circle a mech in the open, you may be safe from him, but you are making yourself a super tasty snack for all the snipers on his team watching from the side. Most of the lights I kill with sniper builds are because they decide to fight someone else out in the open and then run in a very predictable circle.

[Smokeyjedi]

Xajorkith, on 29 May 2013 - 04:39 AM, said:

The way it was, a legged light mech could hit 70 kph which was absurd for a biped with a broken leg..The current mechanic does need some review though, IMHO. Why hitting a legged mech causes momentary paralysis is anyone's guess. I'd prefer to see something more physically realistic.

Oh so now they decide their gonna be a simulator, funny cause its yo-yoing like arcade action with everything else.....

[Aegic]

Smokeyjedi, on 30 May 2013 - 06:01 AM, said:

Oh so now they decide their gonna be a simulator, funny cause its yo-yoing like arcade action with everything else.....

It was always intended to be a mech simulator. Nothing has changed. MWO is in open beta and is always having new features, balancing, and bug fixes enacted. This polish will need to continue throughout the life of the title, however once there is sufficient polish they will have an official release.

This will be more of a milestone than anything, as development and polish will be worked on until the title is abandoned.

[Corvus Antaka]

i thought it was just fine before. not sure why this change was made.

[Spitz]

The change was made because a two legged mech that suddenly only has 1 leg CANNOT perform the same as a 2 legged one. It should not be a matter of what percentage you can still move at. I mean really you should be glad you don't just fall over and have to watch the rest of the match. And yes it takes skill to pilot fast and keep moving. That is why if you are running a light you get punished if you stop relying on your skill and don't keep moving and weaving enough. That is the point. Circling a mech in the open where someone can take a shot at you will get you hit. As well as stopping to look. And if they hit you then they were hitting a much smaller target than an assault and should get serious damage. I mean really. Being hit by a gauss or PPC shouldn't leave much scrap much less the fact that most lights walk away from it.

[Wildstreak]

DeaconW, on 28 May 2013 - 05:50 PM, said:

The fact that any mech can move with a leg lost is silly to me. I think you should be stuck and not be able to move except for JJ.

Except for turning, they should be able to turn.

[DeaconW]

I should have also added the following to my comment...LIGHTS NEEDED A NERF. <sound of pot being stirred>

[Asmosis]

VVhiteVVolf, on 29 May 2013 - 07:45 AM, said:

Running around with 150kph and lag shield, while mounting something like 4ml and 2srm has a higher "skill:power" ratio?
Ya....sure...

Its about the same. Its actually just as hard to hit stuff when your in a light mech flying around at 150km/hr as it is to shoot a light mech thats moving that speed, since the distance vector relative to you target is the same for both mechs.

Same thing applies to hitting jump jetting mechs, provided both of you know where the other is.