14 replies to this topic

[VXJaeger]

Even a single Jager firing it's ballistic guns (3-6 AC2/5s) create such a huge smokescreen, that dudes behind him cannot see anything through it.

Edited by VXJaeger, 29 May 2013 - 11:34 PM.

[Tennex]

size of the smoke should really scale based on the caliber..

it just looks odd for the AC2 to make rapidly making such a ruckus

[Ralgas]

Until you go the "future/magic" argument it's about right to a lil small

[Karenai]

Smokeless gunpowder is not.


Same goes for recoilless rifles. Friendly fire. Maintanence free. And everything else.

[Lynx7725]

Karenai, on 29 May 2013 - 11:18 PM, said:

Smokeless gunpowder is not.
Same goes for recoilless rifles. Friendly fire. Maintanence free. And everything else.

Isn't that a naval 5" gun? That's about the size of the autocannons on mechs.

[VXJaeger]

Ralgas, on 29 May 2013 - 11:11 PM, said:

Until you go the "future/magic" argument it's about right to a lil small

Well, tank cannons use different kind of propellant that autocannons...IMHO AC20 is only gun that is big enough to make smokescreen. It's just annoying to get shot by macro-AC2 Jager, because first there is that hellish smokescreen and secondary comes constant shaking that one can't accurately shoot back.

Lynx7725, on 29 May 2013 - 11:20 PM, said:

Isn't that a naval 5" gun? That's about the size of the autocannons on mechs.

76mm is 3"

[Lynx7725]

VXJaeger, on 29 May 2013 - 11:34 PM, said:

76mm is 3"

Yeah that sounds about correct for an AC2 or AC5. While Btech fiction has never been consistent in the caliber translation to autocannon class, they usually go around 200mm as the upper limit (AC20), and linear down. I don't necessarily agree with that though.

[DerSpecht]

Gunpowder? I thought nitro is used in modern projectiles...

[VXJaeger]

Lynx7725, on 29 May 2013 - 11:37 PM, said:

Yeah that sounds about correct for an AC2 or AC5. While Btech fiction has never been consistent in the caliber translation to autocannon class, they usually go around 200mm as the upper limit (AC20), and linear down. I don't necessarily agree with that though.

I'd transfer BT-> IRL cal's something like this:
AC2 = 30mm (Apache chaingun/ Bushmaster II)
AC5 = 76mm/3"
AC/LBX10 = 120mm /5"
AC20 = 155mm/6"

[Thomas Hogarth]

VXJaeger, on 29 May 2013 - 11:51 PM, said:

I'd transfer BT-> IRL cal's something like this:
AC2 = 30mm (Apache chaingun/ Bushmaster II)
AC5 = 76mm/3"
AC/LBX10 = 120mm /5"
AC20 = 155mm/6"

Oh it's not even that simple.

MGs are supposed to be minigun-sized and fire rate devices. Think Vulcan on the small side and Avenger on the big side.

Autocannon of all classes run the gamut of calibers - even between the ratings. Totally possible to have a 85mm AC20 and a 200mm AC10. What differentiates the different classes of autocannon are the amount of projectiles fired in that short .1 second blip. Yes, ACs are huge rate of fire 'blip' guns. Don't listen to MWO, it lies.

[Darvaza]

I still think the rate of fire for the AC 2 is too high. They have taken a crap TT weapon and made it great. I understand increasing the RoF and I do not have a problem with it as a whole, but I think it is too high for the AC 2.

[Asakara]

VXJaeger, on 29 May 2013 - 11:51 PM, said:

I'd transfer BT-> IRL cal's something like this:
AC2 = 30mm (Apache chaingun/ Bushmaster II)
AC5 = 76mm/3"
AC/LBX10 = 120mm /5"
AC20 = 155mm/6"

Let's see what the official fluff magazine said about autocannons originally:

From BattleTechnology Magazine 0201: Pages 25 & 26

Battlemech Weapons - Crisis Of Range And Accuracy

Autocannon
Machine Guns With A Kick

Autocannons are descended from the rapid-fire, explosive warhead rounds first developed for use against aircraft and armor during the mid-20th Century, which, in turn, were developed from the 19th century Gatling machine gun. Indeed, many high-tech, 20th and 21st century autocannon types were based directly on the rotating, multi-barrel designs developed in Gatling's original design.

BattleMech autocannon are rapid-fire weapons ranging from 40 to 120 mm, firing shells designed to cause the maximum damage to BattleMech composite armor. Shells are fed into the autocannon's firing chamber from a shell cassette, inaccurately labelled a "round." BattleMech AC ammunition inventories refer to the numbers of "rounds" -i.e., cassettes holding anywhere from 4 to 100 individual rounds, or shells - stored aboard. The number of shells in a cassette depends on the caliber of the shell and on the design of the cannon. Some weapons eject spent cassettes almost as fast as empty cartridge casings - but the cassette system allows fresh rounds to be smoothly and automatically chambered to a weapons which is often (e.g., the MAD-3R Marauder) not an integral part of the BattleMech's hull.

Autocannon effective range depends on the size of the weapon and on the caliber of the shell fired. Autocannons are classified by the number of cassette "rounds" which can be fired within 10-seconds, though this can be misleading since there are fewer shells in large-caliber cassette rounds than in smaller. Generally speaking, autocannons firing a large number of small shells from cassettes holding a large number of shells (the AC\2, for example) have a longer range but cause less damage than heavier shells fired in short bursts from cassettes holding only a few rounds (such as the heavy AC\20).

The characteristics of each autocannon type are listed below:

AC\2: The AC\2 is a relatively light weapon (about 6 tons) which causes relatively light damage for a weapons of its size. It has an extremely high rate of fire, with a sound which has been likened to a buzzsaw. The AC\2 has an effective range of over 700 meters but is prone to difficulties in targeting at ranges of less than 120 meters. The high rate of fire causes maintenance problems as well, necessitating frequent relining of the barrel.
The BJ-1 Blackjack mounts an AC\2 in each arm as main weapons in its primary mission as a source of suppression fire against non-'Mech forces.

AC\5: The AC\5 category actually takes in a broad range of gun calibers and rates of fire, all with weapons systems of about the same weight (8 tons) and range (effective range = 540 meters). Weapon types range from medium caliber, 60 mm shells shells fired at 8 to 10 rounds per second, to large calibers - notably the Whirlwind 120 mm autocannon mounted on the MAD-3R Marauder. The Marauder's AC\5 fires at a painfully low rate of speed - only 3 to 4 individual rounds per second, but each 120 mm shell packs a tremendous punch. Like the AC\2, most AC\5's lose some accuracy at close ranges.

AC\10: The AC\10, such as the Luxor-D series carried by the CN9-A Centurion, is another intermediate class which includes both medium and heavy calibers. The Luxor-D fires 70 mm shells at 10 rounds per second, while the larger KaliYama class 10 carried by the Kurita ON1-K Orion fires 90 mm shells at 5 rounds per second. The effective range is less than for an AC\5, but the larger number of shells fired with each cassette burst causes greater damage to the target.

AC\20: The monsters of the Autocannon weapon class, the AC\20 are generally carried by only assault 'Mechs. Each cassette round holds only four actual rounds, and these are cycled in extremely short, fast bursts which allow the cannon to run through 2 cassettes per second. The weapons are extremely heavy - as much as 14 tons - and their range is restricted by limits to the amount of propellant which can be packed into each shell cartridge. Maximum effective range for an AC\20 is only about 270 meters. However, those few tightly-spaced, extremely heavy rounds cause terrible damage on impact, making them ideal weapons for such BattleMech monsters as the Cyclops and Atlas.

Space prohibits a detailed listing of all the BattleMech autocannons by type, caliber, and rate of fire in this overview of weapons. As an overall weapons class, autocannons are highly regarded as an effective and efficient 'Mech weapon. AC\5s, in particular, combine long range with low heat build-up, and a solid punch balanced between the high-rate-of-fire/small shells v.s. low-rate-of-fire/large-shells variables. These factors make the AC\5 one of the more popular BattleMech weapons, particularly if storage space aboard a given 'Mech allows storage for a full 20 reload cassettes. So popular is the AC\5, that its range and damage factors are often listed as standard autocannon data, particularly in older weapons listings.

As with other BattleMech weapons, all autocannon shells, whatever their caliber, carry for considerably larger distances than those listed as "effective range" in most manuals. As with other weapons systems, these figures reflect the difficulty in hitting targets as mobile as a BattleMech at ranges of more than half a kilometer.

Edited by Asakara, 30 May 2013 - 08:05 AM.

[MasterErrant]

Lynx7725, on 29 May 2013 - 11:20 PM, said:

Isn't that a naval 5" gun? That's about the size of the autocannons on mechs.

it's a three in and it comparable to a sniper artillary peice.
the rheinmetal 120 is analgous to an ac 10 or more likely a thumper artillery peice.

you not that the smoke cleasr almost instantly..
though BT ACs are very shrot barreled compared to either of those guns
that being said the smoke effects are a little overdone. these are higher tech weapons afterall.

Edited by MasterErrant, 30 May 2013 - 09:54 AM.

[Koniving]

Lynx7725, on 29 May 2013 - 11:37 PM, said:

[/size]
Yeah that sounds about correct for an AC2 or AC5. While Btech fiction has never been consistent in the caliber translation to autocannon class, they usually go around 200mm as the upper limit (AC20), and linear down. I don't necessarily agree with that though.

Autocannon classes are classified by damage ratings. Some AC/20s do single projects, others fire a burst of projectiles. Either way the damage counts out to '20 points' per trigger pull. We're actually supposed to see "variants" of weapon classifications categorized by manufacturer soon[tm].

Example: http://www.sarna.net...i/Autocannon_20

Video shows a 76mm cannon. Lots of smoke, and needs a small army to load it.

Edited by Koniving, 30 May 2013 - 10:14 AM.

[shabowie]

What you guys are describing as "lots" of smoke isn't. When you look at paintings of old battle scenes and the whole thing is wreathed in smoke from guys with muskets firing 4-5 shots a minute out of small arms. Compare that to a modern infantryman firing hundreds of rounds per minute and the amount of smoke generated. Its called Smoke-less, not smoke none.