71 replies to this topic

[jakucha]

Colonel Pada Vinson, on 29 May 2013 - 11:34 PM, said:

i sure miss having to actually "Watch the tunnel because now i can just pick up blips. more counters would be great, and some range reductions based on the enemy mechs wieght.

On an unrelated note, this whole time I've been mistakenly reading your name as "Colonel Panda Vision". It was only from the match we just played that I noticed it wasn't that.

[FupDup]

Ralgas, on 30 May 2013 - 01:48 AM, said:

It's an ac/40 and a1 counter.

Because this game definitely needed counters to brawlers. Brawling is so out of control right now...

Edited by FupDup, 30 May 2013 - 11:37 AM.

[Deathlike]

jakucha, on 30 May 2013 - 11:30 AM, said:

On an unrelated note, this whole time I've been mistakenly reading your name as "Colonel Panda Vision". It was only from the match we just played that I noticed it wasn't that.

It will not be the first or last time people said that about his name.

[Mechteric]

It has made 8-man groups incredibly frustrating because you know they know where you're flanking to at too huge of a distance, and they know you know they're ready for your flank. Its like some kinda Catch-22!

I like the seismic and want it to stay but its clear that 400 meters is simply too much. Hopefully they've got a change for us in store next week!

[Corvus Antaka]

jakucha, on 30 May 2013 - 11:30 AM, said:

On an unrelated note, this whole time I've been mistakenly reading your name as "Colonel Panda Vision". It was only from the match we just played that I noticed it wasn't that.

Optical Illusion strikes again!

[Kommisar]

This module has caused me to drastically change how I pilot my Spider. I can't speak for everyone's experience, as the game is different dependent upon ELO ranking and all of that. Where I mostly fall in, there appear to be a lot of guys running the Advanced version. I'm running Advanced myself. So, when I suddenly pick up enemy mechs at max range and they all turn in my direction... yea, I was in there range as well.

No longer can I use terrain to break contact and create uncertainty in my foes. Now they absolutely know that after I landed behind the hill or building I cut left. I got to the point where I am no longer using the circle of death tactic much; a good pilot will still be able to line up that one good hit on me. I weave, in and out. Hit and run. Against a Seismic Equipped mech... well, they know where I am and where I'm going. For those that have never piloted a Spider (especially against a full lance of enemy mechs at once!) the difference between slipping between huge death-volleys of pain and eating those alphas is NOT being where their guns are pointed. Your speed helps you with this, in part. But a good light pilot helps themselves by making those larger mechs traverse their guns further. Now, they just follow the red dot right to me.

Yea, I can jump. Which I do a LOT. But it only helps a bit. And you go up... which can be bad as well. And eventually, they get their red dot again.

Seismic is way to powerful. It hands a pilot situational awareness.

It also adds another huge blow to shorter ranged weapons. A good pilot that knew what he was doing, could use the terrain and work himself into "brawl" range now has all his skilled play flushed by a module. Yes, he still got in and got a flank. But, the advantage of working that and pulling it off was having that second volley (or even a third!) while the target is trying to figure out what just happened. The surprise factor. Most light and medium pilots live on this.

What this is going to do is push average engagement ranges back even more. Light pilots were already starting to retool with ERPPCs, ERLarge Lasers and the like. Now, they have even more incentive to go long range.

I tended to be a flanker in my Cataphracts and Jagers. Push around the edges and lay in with a volley and fade back. Keeping the target off balance, guessing. Now, I'm getting spotted making that move and losing that bit of edge. Or just flat out finding a Stalker waiting for me.

The Devs talked endlessly about their Information Warfare; but this is just free information. Install... know where everyone within 400 meters of your position is. Done. It's as clumsy as the ECM bubble of nothing; but with just over twice the area of effect. And it doesn't counter the ECM effect really. ECM mechs that got in behind the enemy didn't need their ECM to stay hidden back there. Sensors were only forward facing. Not very realistic, perhaps. But it made for better game play. It gave the game that element of unknown danger where you could ninja a guy. Or play cat and mouse behind ridges or through buildings. You could bait and switch. Pull the cocky and stupid into ambushes.

Seismic just sort of dumps all of that.

Makes the game that much more boring for me.

If we keep getting this stuff where everyone just knows where everyone is all the time, the game becomes nothing more than which side can better prioritize their targets and aim faster/better. You lose the real thinking, tactical part.

[sarkun]

Adv Seismic is one of the things that take away from this game - it removes guessing, checkign corners, fear for your safety. Now I just stroll leisurely, knowing that there is no enemy inside of 400 meters. You only scan for poptarters.

jakucha, on 30 May 2013 - 11:30 AM, said:

On an unrelated note, this whole time I've been mistakenly reading your name as "Colonel Panda Vision". It was only from the match we just played that I noticed it wasn't that.

OMG me too.

[Goose]

Soooooooooo does anyone have a creative nerf for it?

• Got'a stand still for 5 seconds for it to "deploy"
  
• All movement shows up on it, not just the stuff IFF doesn't like
  
• Gets confused by multiple units close together, IFF be damned
  
• Gets "jammed" by anything landing from a jump, halfway across the map
  
• Missreads non-laser fire into any surface

Yeah: It's Teh Future; But this future tends not to have Easy Buttons …

[Ralgas]

FupDup, on 30 May 2013 - 11:36 AM, said:

Because this game definitely needed counters to brawlers. Brawling is so out of control right now...

Because getting 2 shotted by jaggers and streakcats aren't concerns by the community at all and they aren't doing anything about jump shooting either.........

[FupDup]

Ralgas, on 30 May 2013 - 01:38 PM, said:

Because getting 2 shotted by jaggers and streakcats aren't concerns by the community at all and they aren't doing anything about jump shooting either.........

Jagerbombs certainly are annoying (especially to mechs with a big CT like my Catapults ) and Streakcats even more so due to the undodgeable nature of SSRMs, but they're hardly where the meta is at. It's ERPPCs everywhere. If seismic only detected AC/40 Jaggers and Streakapults then you might be on to something, but it tends to detect anything within 400m and make it harder for any mech to ambush snipers.

[Corvus Antaka]

I find it very easy to gauge when someone will step around a corner, and this is an issue imho. however counter modules may work better than a nurf, though cutting the range in half for light mechs and adjusting values might be a good idea.

[Trauglodyte]

Sephlock, on 30 May 2013 - 11:25 AM, said:

Nicely done, sir!

[Ralgas]

FupDup, on 30 May 2013 - 01:43 PM, said:

Jagerbombs certainly are annoying (especially to mechs with a big CT like my Catapults ) and Streakcats even more so due to the undodgeable nature of SSRMs, but they're hardly where the meta is at. It's ERPPCs everywhere. If seismic only detected AC/40 Jaggers and Streakapults then you might be on to something, but it tends to detect anything within 400m and make it harder for any mech to ambush snipers.

I suppose we'll see how justified it is next month (assuming jj shake doesn't get pushed back). And which is why my split weight range drop i'm pushing would work. You'd be able to get return fire on the heavy hitters and although you'd get warning on the lighter brawlers they'd still have to be predictable to be effectively countered.

my idea

Light/meds 100m/200m detection
heavy/assualts 150/300.

Didn't want to split it to each class weight as then the incoming info can get too convoluted, especially as you aren't given a range on the minimap

Edited by Ralgas, 30 May 2013 - 01:59 PM.

[ArcDemon]

Goose, on 30 May 2013 - 01:32 PM, said:

Soooooooooo does anyone have a creative nerf for it?

• Got'a stand still for 5 seconds for it to "deploy"
  
• All movement shows up on it, not just the stuff IFF doesn't like
  
• Gets confused by multiple units close together, IFF be damned
  
• Gets "jammed" by anything landing from a jump, halfway across the map
  
• Missreads non-laser fire into any surface

Yeah: It's Teh Future; But this future tends not to have Easy Buttons …

I would say that the bigger the 'blip' you yourself are creating, the more limited your own detection should be since you are drowning out other readings with your mechs movement.

So a mech standing still always has a full 400m range (or 200m for basic). The range is reduced the faster you are moving and the heavier you are. So if you are in an Atlas with a 350 engine charging along at full throttle you'll have a range of about 25m - the sensor just can't detect anything over the massive local earth quake your mech is creating. By comparison a little Commando can run at full speed and still be seeing out something like 300m.

Alternatively it could be a comparison - you can only see seismic blips that are equal to or larger then the one you are creating yourself. So if you are a Catapult moving along you can see a blip from another moving Catapult, but you don't see his little Jenner buddy unless you slow down or come to a stop.

Or combine the two in some way - both the range and the ability to detect are modified by your own movement and weight. You may still see big mechs at range, but smaller mechs need to be closer before your sensor can discern them from your own noise. So standing still you can see anything up to 400m. When you are moving you might be limited to seeing only heavier mechs mechs at 400m, equal weighted/speed mechs at 300m, slightly smaller at 200m and much smaller mechs at 100m.

[HarmAssassin]

Those who tend to get flanked (not situationally aware or using bad tactics) love Seismic Sensor module.

Those who tend to do the flanking (actually using cover/concealment to sneak up on the weak side of the enemy formation) hate it.

Those who get flanked love it because they never again have to worry about watching their backs, just watch for the red dot, then turn and fire. But those who actually use sound tactics and out-maneuver the enemy now find that the enemy knows they're coming before you can even get in weapon range.

400m might not sound like a big distance, but most hills/buildings/etc aren't 400m wide. It allows mechs to see what's coming LONG before it rounds the hill.

Frozen City... no need to watch tunnel, no mech can get through it without being detected now - and since the tunnel path is winding, it means defenders can easily reposition and be waiting for you before you can get to the other end. No need to watch the low ground around the edge of the map either, just place a mech within 400m of it firing towards the ridge, and if anyone tries sneaking around below you... you guessed it, you spot the little red dots.

Mechs no longer need to look left, right, or behind them as they move... just watch the mini-map and look for the dot.

Chasing a mech and lose sight of it, don't worry... just follow the little red dots (you'll instantly see when they change direction too).

This module needs a serious mugging with the nerf hammer or it needs to be removed.

[Petroshka]

I have just noticed that it's hilarious to sit still outside the cave entrance and wait for people to go through oblivious to your presence because they are staring on the minimap for movement. better yet, have a buddy moving around away from you so they will turn backs to the ambushers as they emerge.

also

[Dude42]

So that's how the nubcake poptarts know I'm coming.

"Yo dawg, we heard you liked poptarting. Here's Godmode."

[Sephlock]

jakucha, on 30 May 2013 - 11:30 AM, said:

On an unrelated note, this whole time I've been mistakenly reading your name as "Colonel Panda Vision". It was only from the match we just played that I noticed it wasn't that.

ARGGGGGHHH NOW I CAN'T UN-SEE IT!

[Kommisar]

I have some ideas on how to adjust this puppy. Then again, I actually know (professionally - degrees in geology and civil engineering) a good deal about geophysics and the like. So, right from get go I see inherent issues with how this system works at all. Perhaps tomorrow I'll type up a few ideas.

Edited by Kommisar, 30 May 2013 - 05:16 PM.

[Sephlock]

Kommisar, on 30 May 2013 - 04:10 PM, said:

I have some ideas on how to adjust this puppy. Then again, I actually know (profesionally - degrees in geology and civil engineering) a good deal about geophysics and the like. So, right from get go I see inherent issues with how this system works at all. Perhaps tomorrow I'll type up a few ideas.

Do it!