79 replies to this topic

[Gevurah]

I'm genuinely curious here. With the upcoming flea and locust to be added the question begs to be asked- what value do they bring?

The flea has the arguably useful feature of masc at the cost of vastly reduced armor, firepower, etc.

The locust probably won't even have MASC. So short of nostalgia, it brings nothing worthwhile to the field.

I mean think about it - everything they can do will be able to be done better by some other chassis. Scouting. Harrassment. Skirmishing. Striker lances... etc.

At least in the current meta. But even in a future hypothetical meta where worlds are conquered and strict tonnage limits enforced on contracts...

Jenners, Ravens... heck even spiders and commandos will vastly outperform them. So short of just 'variety' - can anyone tell me what actual value they might bring to the game (either in the current or hypothetical meta of worlds to come)

[Lugh]

Lights...what are they good for ?!?! Absolutely Nuthin' !!! Say it again.

Lights...what are they good for ?!?! Absolutely Nuthin' !!!
HUWHA

[Stoicblitzer]

sometimes mechs are DBA (dead before arrival). the only reason they are in the game is for the 50yr old TT guys to have nostalgia-gasms. as someone said, "the phoenix package isn't marketed to me because I play the game."

[Belorion]

Because variety is good.

Dragons may not be easy to play, but some people play them to great effect. So to will be the 20 ton mechs.

[Agent 0 Fortune]

Comedic value.
Unless they have spider-like hitboxes, in which case they can face tank the enemy front line.

[Sean von Steinike]

Fun. Because maybe people will have fun with them.

[Ph30nix]

the value of Lights is 100% dependent on the skill and abilities of the pilot. Its not like an assault where you just lumber along and pop your load on anything in front of you.

in my 25 ton commandos(death knell) i routinely score 500+ with 2+ kills, i just got the ballistic varient of the spider and have had some good matches with it using just 4 MG and a ML.

im looking forward to the locust actually.... but that might just be that i seem to be a glutton for punishment and the harder a mech is to use the more i like it.

[Bilbo]

When weight limits are in the game and you have a light pilot that's at least as concerned about gathering information as killing people, they allow you to bring heavier mechs in other categories.

[Gevurah]

I'm not trying to be contrary here. I mean my inquiry genuinely. I just don't understand the value these things bring to MWO.

Bear in mind I'm a long time commando, dragon, and spider pilot. I'm saying that even the 5 ton difference between a flea and a commando is going to be a night and day difference in survival/damage output. Comparing the dragon to the flea isn't even a valid comparison. It's not even apples to oranges. It's like comparing a large laser to a pre-buff machine gun.

I think people are in for a rude shock if they think that people will make these work - these are legacy TT designs built around killing infantry/vehicles. Armor values simply aren't there for it, nor is the tonnage for effective weaponry.

Think spider 5-k only with less effective options.

Even the commando is going to have nearly double the armor of a locust. DOUBLE. I mean that's just sad. So it's not even a fair comparison. We're talking a mech with a standard loadout of two MG's and a medium laser. The flea's loadout is better but offers even worse survivability.

As it is, people complain about being one-shot by 2xAC20's. What are they going to do when they get 1shot by a single AC20? Or a Gauss plus a medium laser? That's virtual ubiquitous throughout the realm. Or hell, a single AC 10 in the right rear torso for an XL hit? It's going to go through the measly 3-4 points of armor and right through the 4-6 points of structure. Splat, dead.

These things won't tank, let alone be effective. I can think of ways for PGI to *MAKE* them effective but I'm not sure it'd ever see the light of day. I guess I'm just looking for thoughts on how they could possibly be making them effective in a meta.

[C E Dwyer]

Stoicblitzer, on 17 July 2013 - 11:59 AM, said:

sometimes mechs are DBA (dead before arrival). the only reason they are in the game is for the 50yr old TT guys to have nostalgia-gasms. as someone said, "the phoenix package isn't marketed to me because I play the game."

Would be debatable whether 'playing the game' the way your friend implies it, matters that its actually MWO, could be any generic game, very few of the mechs in this game have a use other than looks.

the ECM mechs and stalkers the rest are kind of pointless, other than how they look

[Ph30nix]

i completely understand your concern and yes by the numbers they will be DOA, but assuming PGI does remove the speed cap they will have alot more survivability then their low armor would suggest.

Also once we get to CW lights will be alot more valuable.....(i hope)

hopefully they give machine guns one last tweak to really give them some value they arent horrible right now though. you can strip the back armor off a highlander in about 25 seconds with 4 mg on a spider

[C E Dwyer]

Well hopefully size will be a factor, but if being usefull is a requesite for being, then we could easily shed a few billion from the worlds population if thats the only criterier, for existing.

[Grand Ayatollah Kerensky]

Nutritional value.

[VanillaG]

They will only be valuable once tonnage limits are put in for drops. Taking a 20 ton mech fast mech instead of a 30 ton fast mechs means someone else in the drop can bring more weight. These types of mechs will give teams the ability to min/max a drop.

[Bhael Fire]

I'm wagering that the Locust will have an ace up its sleeve of some to keep it competitively balanced.

[Elyam]

As a few have said, it's about mission tonnage limits. Also consider that PGI is still tweaking the game. 20-ton mechs do have a place in BT TT, and as such, should have a place here. Size and camo (both environmental and electronic) vs sensors matters too. Once things are balanced correctly, you'll more easily see why someone would take a Locust over a Jenner.

And the thing is about those 50-year-old TT players - they are often dedicated military simulation hobbyists, who know very well how to build and use gaming systems to provide superb and fun battlefield play. Anyone coming at MWO only from the computer-gaming side should not discount them as dinosaurs or fools who bring nothing but obsolete ideas to this venue. If they say MWO will benefit from play balanced to show the role of 20-ton mechs, you can put stock in that opinion.

Edited by Elyam, 17 July 2013 - 02:39 PM.

[General Taskeen]

20 ton mechs were perfectly fine in MW4.

But, will be hard pressed with the game's core mechanics in MWO. And also light weapons like MG's were way better in MW3/4 and thus could use them effectively.

[oldradagast]

It's hard to say, though I think if they can make the 20-ton mechs work and be worth playing, they'll have really achieved some solid game balance since that's what would be required to do so, IMHO.

[Haradim]

In theory, light mechs will eventually have more activities that take advantage of or even mandate their edge in speed, so an inability to contribute much to a fight won't necessarily be a hindrance. This won't change until matches are decided by more than just raw damage output (or capture wins become more lucrative to pursue, for a lesser form of this).

[Angel of Annihilation]

Gevurah, on 17 July 2013 - 11:23 AM, said:

I'm genuinely curious here. With the upcoming flea and locust to be added the question begs to be asked- what value do they bring?

The flea has the arguably useful feature of masc at the cost of vastly reduced armor, firepower, etc.

The locust probably won't even have MASC. So short of nostalgia, it brings nothing worthwhile to the field.

I mean think about it - everything they can do will be able to be done better by some other chassis. Scouting. Harrassment. Skirmishing. Striker lances... etc.

At least in the current meta. But even in a future hypothetical meta where worlds are conquered and strict tonnage limits enforced on contracts...

Jenners, Ravens... heck even spiders and commandos will vastly outperform them. So short of just 'variety' - can anyone tell me what actual value they might bring to the game (either in the current or hypothetical meta of worlds to come)

Flavor. They add Flavor to the game no more, no less. The give us options to play and add more diversity to the mechs we see on the battlefield.

Also hopefully at some point light mechs will actual have a real purpose. I personally am still hoping for them to add tactical scenerios or missions to the game that might even go so far as to restrict mechs and weights.