44 replies to this topic

[lorrylemming]

I play in medium mechs. Arguably the poorest weight class but most of the time I feel like I am very capable of helping my team. I would not say I am good at the game but certainly come in the top half most games.

The only mech that I cannot deal with is AC/40 cats and jagers. If I am in a large group with my team, the more intelligent players running these builds single out any mediums and paste me very quickly.

I find this to be the biggest problem in the blackjack as it is not as fast as the other medium class mechs.

What should I do? Hopefully there are other options instead of running away.

Edited by lorrylemming, 05 June 2013 - 08:43 AM.

[ManDaisy]

either run up point blank and hope your team mates take him out while he is distracted with you or try to avoid that situation all together. If you can make him about face to expose his rear to your team, you might live.

[Ramien]

Keep them at range until you can get behind them, particularly if you have longer range weapons than the ac/20. If you're lucky, you'll be facing a pilot who is willing to settle for the lesser damage instead of waiting till his shots have more punch.

Keep moving. Speed is life.

[Mr G]

How fast as your mediums? dealing with the ac40 jagers is relatively easy since most of them use xl engines. you either get behind them and start blasting away or you target the side torsos. keep moving, keep twisting and move erratically as possible laterally across their field of fire. If possible try to keep beyond 300 meters if you can since that not only reduces the damage their ac20s do by half, but also forces them to lead more. Obviously you can't always do that, especially if you are using srms as your main damage dealer. Also try not to take them on alone if he's after you, your team mate should be baslting his back and vice versa.

the ac40 cats are more durable, but since their ac20s are torso mounted terrain wonderful for keeping out of their line of fire. especially if you have a good deal of arm mounted weapons. stay either higher or lower then them as you pound away. since the ac40 cat is pretty slow you should be able to get behind it and stay there, though it does have pretty crazy twist.

always try to keep your mediums as close to their max speeds as possible. it really helps.

[Damon Howe]

Drop in an AC40 cicada. It may not win you many matches, but you'll be laughing your head off if you manage to kill one!

[Hex Pallett]

Stay in a pack. Torso twist.

[lorrylemming]

Thanks for the advice.

Good point about XL engines, didn't think of that. I will try to get behind them more often.

In hindsight I will say that the people who have killed me using these builds generally were pretty good and scored high damage in the game.

[heleqin]

Use your speed and put obstacles in between you and his guns, all mediums (even hunchbacks and the slower blackjacks) should be faster than both AC40 Jagers and especially BoomCats, don't take predictable paths, stop and doubleback, run in zig zag pattern, if you're not moving faster than 80 in a medium you're doing it wrong and need to upgrade your engine.

Torso twist to throw off his aim and spread the damage, but try to focus your fire on the side torsos, as others have mentioned, the only way to fit 2 AC20s and enough ammo to make a difference is to run an XL engine, and the side torso is always weaker than the CT. With the Catapults, the cannons are in the side torso as well, so even if they have managed to make a standard engine work, you'll be removing one of the cannons from play.

This is also true for dealing with GaussCats and dual Gauss Jagers, though with the Jagers, the arms themselves are valid targets as well, strip the 40 points of armor from the arm and virtually any shot to the arm should take out the very fragile Gauss rifle, which with then blow up taking the arm and damaging that side torso. with the GaussCats going for the side torso is even easier, as the Gauss should blow before you finish coring the internals.

[Dexter Herbivore]

The XL engines are the key, if you can avoid them while they have little damage then great, otherwise try to focus a single side torso. Generally it takes a bit of skill to consistently hit a single side torso but normally you won't be hitting them head on (unless you get jumped) and you have some time to aim before they relise you're there.

If you're consistently running into them solo and/or getting jumped, then you're probably getting too far away from your team in the early engagement phase. In a BJ, you should be able to get in enough damage in 2 alphas to put them in some serious pain and make them think twice about engaging... and you have the agility to do that in 1 of their alphas, especially if you're not their only target. A part of this tactic in pugs is relying on your team-mates to identify them quickly and focus fire on them as they're a mjor danger. If you spot them early, call their target designation and ask people to focus on them if close.

[BillyM]

Mr G, on 05 June 2013 - 08:56 AM, said:

If possible try to keep beyond 300 meters if you can since that not only reduces the damage their ac20s do by half, but also forces them to lead more....

Well that's wrong as all get-out.

AC40 Damage at Ranges:
40dmg - 0-270m
38dmg - 297m
36dmg - 324m
34dmg - 351m
32dmg - 378m
30dmg - 405m
28dmg - 432m
26dmg - 459m
24dmg - 486m
22dmg - 513m
20dmg - 540m
18dmg - 567m
16dmg - 594m
14dmg - 621m
12dmg - 648m
10dmg - 675m
08dmg - 702m
06dmg - 729m
04dmg - 756m
02dmg - 783m
00dmg - 827m

...so yea, you stay at 300m and expect damage to be halved while you have components removed with each shot.

--billyM

[BigMekkUrDakka]

as for ac40 jager they often sacrifice theirs leg armor to get some extra weight, so u always can leg them relatively fast and then just go for some other mech, not sure about ac40 cat but in general move around alot use covers and torso twist dont fight them in unfavorable for u situations (no covers, narrow space, 1v1 in general) since even if u win them u will loose way too much armor for killing/crippling only one mech

[Dexter Herbivore]

I thought it was 0 damage at just over triple effective range? ie 811m not 827m? Not that it makes a huge difference However is the damage drop off really just a straight progression with a 5% damage drop off per 10% extra range?

Edited by Dexter Herbivore, 05 June 2013 - 09:35 AM.

[Felicitatem Parco]

Yeah, the AC/20 should deal squat at ~810m.

My suggestion for the AC/40 Jager in a Medum? (ER)PPCs. They will be slinging the worst insults imaginable if you're in a Fast Medium while remaining 700meters away and plinking them with Particle Cannons.. you can hit them easily enough, and you can dodge their shots, too. Just try to choose one side torso and keep on it.

Edited by Prosperity Park, 05 June 2013 - 09:33 AM.

[Spheroid]

The BJ-1X is plenty fast to avoid AC-40. I find the Jagers more dangerous though because I have gotten very good at blowing the cockpits off Cats. With slower Blackjacks I would simply suggest staying slightly behind the front line and engaging with autocannon or PPC at 300+ meters.

[Redshift2k5]

I play an AC40 Jager.

worst thing you can do is flank me and carve off my rear armor, go for the sides if possible. Do not overstay your welcome, better to do it halfway and hide than stay and try to get the kill (and get 40 damage to the face).

go the long way around, don't let me know you're coming, look for when I'm focused on a target.

[Modo44]

To remain out of range, one would have to never play the small maps, which means all but two. Good luck with that.

[Dawnstealer]

Bob and weave. I've "charged" these guys in my relatively slow-moving Stalker and usually avoid the bulk of the damage they can deal out, and once you're up on them and playing the circle dance, they often aren't fast enough to consistently hit you with both barrels.

...and then they run out of ammo. THEN the fun begins as you carve them up for XP.

[ArchMage Sparrowhawk]

Redshift2k5, on 05 June 2013 - 10:16 AM, said:

I play an AC40 Jager.

worst thing you can do is flank me and carve off my rear armor, go for the sides if possible. Do not overstay your welcome, better to do it halfway and hide than stay and try to get the kill (and get 40 damage to the face).

go the long way around, don't let me know you're coming, look for when I'm focused on a target.

yep, because I don't run an XL, and my legs are largely intact. If I see something nibbling at my rear, I'm assuming it's a Medium or a Light, and I hit reverse, swivel around and set their world on fire. The only safe AC40 other than a dead AC40, is an AC40 that is firing at your teammate and not you. Stick to the diagonals, aim at the arms, and stay out of his field of vision. If you shoot from the left, then walk right, toward his rear, so when he checks left, he sees nothing. Stay off his radar and off his screen. If you give him a target, by god no other mech is capable of using up a target quicker than an AC40.

I mastered my DD in order to make it a deadly Ac40 mech, only to find out it was my second favorite. But AC40 feels too much like a cheat so I sold it and bought a ballistic spider.

[WANTED]

Speed is key and don't engage them if possible in tight areas like River City buildings up close. I play a Yen Lo Wang so I can dish out 1 AC 20 myself but I usually stay far away from Jager mechs that have dual AC 20s. Hit them once or twice and run off is what I do using cover and speed.They turn then you let others nail them while they are distracted. Keep repeating and they go down quick.

[Captain Pee Sheets]

Modo44, on 05 June 2013 - 11:57 AM, said:

To remain out of range, one would have to never play the small maps, which means all but two. Good luck with that.

This is where the game becomes a psychological battle: specifically, mob mentality and pack instincts.

In a fast medium (90+ KPH) with at least 2 ER-PPCs, skirts the borders of the battle. Always be on the move, and then wait for the main body of your team's force to engage the enemy. Then fix and flank; try to anticipate where the enemy isn't looking, and go there, take a few shots, and zoom off.

Also works against lone Jagerbombs. XD