122 replies to this topic

[LordBraxton]

my most viable builds for each mech are

4PPC 3SSRM highlander

4PPC Cataphract

3PPC 3SSRM Awesome

6PPC Stalker

4PPC 5SSRM Stalker

3PPC dragon

2PPC 3SSRM trebuchet

seeing a pattern?

I can't help but min\max

I want to have the strongest builds possible that fit my playstyle

I used to be an SRM Centurion\Trebuchet striker\brawler

my centurions are in mothballs, they cannot fit enough PPC

my AC\40 jager\pult are viable but equally boring at the expense of range

now this is my mechbay

I mostly use my cataphract or highlander but

really PPCs are way too good for their heat

they need +1 heat atleast

Edited by LordBraxton, 30 May 2013 - 03:37 PM.

[Pater Mors]

I don't think it's the heat that's the problem. I think it's a) the ability to boat so many without any penalties. b ) even when you do overheat, there's no penalties except for a short shutdown period. c) all the damage from 6ppc (60 damage) hits the exact same point on the mech regardless of any factors which would throw off aim such as how fast you are moving compare to your target, JJ's, the current heat level of your mech etc.

If there were harsher penalties for overheating and the damage wasn't pinpoint accurate then PPC's would be fine with their current numbers IMO.

[jakucha]

Pater Mors, on 30 May 2013 - 03:41 PM, said:

I don't think it's the heat that's the problem. I think it's a) the ability to boat so many without any penalties. b ) even when you do overheat, there's no penalties except for a short shutdown period. c) all the damage from 6ppc (60 damage) hits the exact same point on the mech regardless of any factors which would throw off aim such as how fast you are moving compare to your target, JJ's, the current heat level of your mech etc.

If there were harsher penalties for overheating and the damage wasn't pinpoint accurate then PPC's would be fine with their current numbers IMO.

An expanded heat system could potentially fix a lot of these boated, high damage alpha problems, while also getting people to use chain fire finally. What that expanded heat system might be, we'll just have to wait for PGI to mention it. Hopefully around next patch time.

Edited by jakucha, 30 May 2013 - 03:45 PM.

[MasterErrant]

Pater Mors, on 30 May 2013 - 03:41 PM, said:

I don't think it's the heat that's the problem. I think it's a) the ability to boat so many without any penalties. b ) even when you do overheat, there's no penalties except for a short shutdown period. c) all the damage from 6ppc (60 damage) hits the exact same point on the mech regardless of any factors which would throw off aim such as how fast you are moving compare to your target, JJ's, the current heat level of your mech etc.

If there were harsher penalties for overheating and the damage wasn't pinpoint accurate then PPC's would be fine with their current numbers IMO.

exactly

[LordBraxton]

well to be fair if they completely change the heat system ALL the balance will be up in the air and need reworking

if they keep the current system

they run WAY too cool

the question is, how soon before we see a overhaul to the heat system?

if the answer is months....

they need more heat ASAP

[Jasen]

LordBraxton, on 30 May 2013 - 03:47 PM, said:

well to be fair if they completely change the heat system ALL the balance will be up in the air and need reworking

Pretty much all the (im)balance does need reworking...

[Evax]

Heat is the part of the game that makes MW:O good. It should be emphasized. It promotes tactical play and prevents this from being a CoD piece of crap.

I liking every balance change except the PPC recharge rate. If you were good with PPcs and managed heat It didn't bother you..If you were a noob looking for an easy button it just keeps you from shutting down and being cored out from the back. Not really a balancing tweak.

The re-fire rate actually makes your ppc boat look more heat efficient. The CTF-3D with 2 erppc and gauss used to show 1.26 now it shows something like 1.33 (or there about).

[MasterErrant]

I don't run any of those builds. in fact I currently have nothhing even loading a ppc. I do well scoring in the top three and winning more often that losing.I have fun playing balanced mechs. and teamwork even in pugs.

[jakucha]

MasterErrant, on 30 May 2013 - 04:23 PM, said:

I don't run any of those builds. in fact I currently have nothhing even loading a ppc. I do well scoring in the top three and winning more often that losing.I have fun playing balanced mechs. and teamwork even in pugs.

Same here. I even use the fabled large pulse lasers and only on, wait for it, chain fire.

[Nauht]

PPC's are fine. They're doing damage in accordance wih canon and pretty much in line with all the other weapons.

What the problem is, as noted already, is the pinpoint, absolutely rock steady aim no matter how big you are and what you're doing.

[Xeno Phalcon]

Problem right now is pretty much the same as its always been in any mechwarrior game: The only backlashes for firing too much are warning signals, shutting down and in extreme cases of override , mech destruction. The last generally is avoided except by all but the most zealous brawlers (IE Me <.<), while in battletech heat caused your mech to respond slower, screwed with your targeting systems and such. Lorewise there was also the pilot, heat could cause him/her to pass out and a reactor breach exasperated that problem and even irradiated the pilot, in the case of ppcs the weapons could blow up if damaged after charging. Something that dosnt translate well to MW, imagine if you had to tell your ppcs to begin charging rather then having them ready to go automaticly to minimize the risk of the weapon exploding.

All interesting and plausible in their own domain, we all know its hard to migrate the standards of one media to another, they may have to do something entirely different and drastic to fix the problem but such things tend to get the classic players rioting and I honestly cant blame them,most people who play MWO want to enjoy the battletech universe not have it hacked up into Hawken 2.0

[TheMadTypist]

Want to fix the boating of unreasonable numbers of PPC's without reducing them to pre-heat-buff uselessness? Implement a hard cap at 125-130% heat that causes instant 'mechdeath, regardless of whether the 'mech has overridden shutdown or not.

Stock three-PPC awesomes will still be possible, because they don't spike high enough to explode even when they push their heat as far as it'll go. Six ERPPC stalkers will start to decrease in number, as their pilots will find themselves needing to practice better heat management on the field (leading to much longer downtime between mass shots) or dropping some PPC's for backup weapons or heatsinks to increase their heat capacity.

TLDR: A heat hardcap reduces alpha-based builds by punishing repeated heavy heat spikes, meaning a hexStalker would have a much harder time competing with a quadstalker or perhaps even an Awesome unless the pilot was better.

[Renthrak]

Add 1 heat to PPCs and the rest of the problem can be dealt with elsewhere. Changes to the heat scale and aiming should do it.

[LordBraxton]

TheMadTypist, on 30 May 2013 - 06:10 PM, said:

Want to fix the boating of unreasonable numbers of PPC's without reducing them to pre-heat-buff uselessness? Implement a hard cap at 125-130% heat that causes instant 'mechdeath, regardless of whether the 'mech has overridden shutdown or not.

Stock three-PPC awesomes will still be possible, because they don't spike high enough to explode even when they push their heat as far as it'll go. Six ERPPC stalkers will start to decrease in number, as their pilots will find themselves needing to practice better heat management on the field (leading to much longer downtime between mass shots) or dropping some PPC's for backup weapons or heatsinks to increase their heat capacity.

TLDR: A heat hardcap reduces alpha-based builds by punishing repeated heavy heat spikes, meaning a hexStalker would have a much harder time competing with a quadstalker or perhaps even an Awesome unless the pilot was better.

I agree with such a heat system

but I honestly believe PPCs only sucked because of their low velocity, and VERY poor hit registration.

Perhaps the worst reg in the game

I think once their registration was fixed, they became the monsters they are today

[A banana in the tailpipe]

A major problem with PPCs is time to impact. Anything 70+kph should have a decent chance at avoiding a shot, and the heat is WAY too low on them.

[Victor Morson]

PPCs are not way too good, the other weapon classes are too bad. Fix missiles and ballistics today, see PPCs lose popularity tomorrow, people.

[Asmudius Heng]

Garth mentioned they are looking into heat penalties and possibly even changes to the heat cap (at least that is what was insinuated) on one of the recent NGNG podcasts - so I am hopful something will happen but who knows when - or if they do it right,

[Und3rSc0re]

Look overheating internal damage wont only affect ppc boaters but any other build that overheats. A nerf to ppc heat is a nerf to ppc boaters. Weapon convergence is fine. Currently the only reason i ever shutdown from overheating is if i am safe and want to get that atlas out of my face, or im in the end of the match with 3 guys on top of me. There needs to be a ppc heat nerf period, if i can do 2 alphas without shutting down in a 4ppc phract im still going to play my cataphract since that is 80 points to someones chest in less than 5 seconds, 120 points in less than 9 seconds if its on a cold map.

Edit: Some people might think that is a very harsh change to ppcs and would make them up, well i disagree since they should be support weapons if boated only. 40 points to someone is more than enough especially from long range.

Now we need to figure out how to change gauss rifle boats when a proper ballistic assault platform comes out for them, you cant nerf heat on them since they already run very cool. I am guessing them exploding should be enough for a gauss boater. They are very heavy as well, also needs tons of ammo to sustain 3+ gauss rifles. So maybe that is enough but still we might need to look into it.

Edited by Und3rSc0re, 30 May 2013 - 09:34 PM.

[BillyM]

+1heat on both ppc's NOW! The heck with the "revamp of the heat system to blah blah blah boats", SLIGHT NERF NOW!

(4ppc cataphrax pilot, 1.61wlr, 2.7kdr, 97426-PPCdmg, 244games, 399dmg/game)

I miss my hunchbacks...

--billyM

[Vodrin Thales]

LordBraxton, on 30 May 2013 - 03:47 PM, said:

well to be fair if they completely change the heat system ALL the balance will be up in the air and need reworking

if they keep the current system

they run WAY too cool

the question is, how soon before we see a overhaul to the heat system?

if the answer is months....

they need more heat ASAP

PPC's were actually considered underpowered prior to the reduced heat buff they got this past winter. Adding some of that heat back (1 point each to PPC/ERPPC should be a good start), and having more severe penalties for overheating should pretty much take care of the problem.

Und3rSc0re, on 30 May 2013 - 09:24 PM, said:

Now we need to figure out how to change gauss rifle boats when a proper ballistic assault platform comes out for them, you cant nerf heat on them since they already run very cool. I am guessing them exploding should be enough for a gauss boater. They are very heavy as well, also needs tons of ammo to sustain 3+ gauss rifles. So maybe that is enough but still we might need to look into it.

If gauss rifles again become a serious problem they could be balanced by reducing the ROF, or by adding a minimum range to them. I'd favor just reducing the ROF.

Edited by Vodrin Thales, 31 May 2013 - 05:56 AM.