30 replies to this topic

[Rokkaku]

This is likely taking way less thought than I'm putting into it, but I need a second opinion. Using the exact same build on both mechs, that being 4 Med Las and 2 SRM6+A with a STD 260 engine, giving them the same speed, heatsink amount, and armor. Are there really any pros or cons at this point other than hardpoint placement and mech size?

I've already mastered each chasis, but just can't come to decide on which of these to keep. I did think of putting an XL380 from my AWS-9M into the 3C and equipping it with SSRM2s and BAP instead of the SRM6 to become a light hunter, though my X-5 already serves that role.

Any thoughts on the matter would be appreciated.

[Hotthedd]

If you are going to use the exact same loadout, my vote would be for the Hunchie.

It is smaller and generally seen as less of a threat.

[Deathlike]

The HBK-4SP is harder to deal with, due to how its hardpoints are put together.

The TBT-3C is a capable light hunter on paper... and although I don't see that many (for whatever the reason happens to be), it is a rather expensive mech (it sounds like you've gotten all the parts).

If you are using a slow engine on it though, the Hunchy is far more attractive.

[Spheroid]

The Hunchback has better torso twist range.

[Pumbie]

i have both and find myself in my 4SP 90% of the time. go the Hunchie

[Carrioncrows]

I would vote against the HBK.

With all of ti's weapons in the Torso and it being so easy to hit, the HBK is just a walking target and lord help you if you try and put an XL engine it it.

The TBT on the other hand can handle an XL engine like a champ due to it's smaller side torso's and big arms absorbing most of the damage.

The HBK is built for a STD engine so that you can survive longer, you'll lose most of your weapon systems but you'll still have that extra 10-15 seconds of combat time before they get to the juicy center.

The TBT is built for speed, if the fight isn't going your way you can use the superior speed to escape or hold the distance. Honestly not using a TBT with an XL is right up there with not using a XL in a Dragon. There is no reason not to.

[Pater Mors]

I have the Mastered 3C but I run a 300XL in mine (with the same weapon setup) which makes it very capable of hunting lights (106kph) and a deadly skirmisher if you use Hit & Run tactics.

Edited by Pater Mors, 31 May 2013 - 06:05 PM.

[aniviron]

Carrioncrows, on 31 May 2013 - 06:03 PM, said:

I would vote against the HBK.

With all of ti's weapons in the Torso and it being so easy to hit, the HBK is just a walking target and lord help you if you try and put an XL engine it it.

The TBT on the other hand can handle an XL engine like a champ due to it's smaller side torso's and big arms absorbing most of the damage.

The HBK is built for a STD engine so that you can survive longer, you'll lose most of your weapon systems but you'll still have that extra 10-15 seconds of combat time before they get to the juicy center.

The TBT is built for speed, if the fight isn't going your way you can use the superior speed to escape or hold the distance. Honestly not using a TBT with an XL is right up there with not using a XL in a Dragon. There is no reason not to.

This is good advice, except:

Your first point is wrong because the 4sp does not have a hunch, and 4/7 hardpoints are in the arms, not the torsos.

The second is debatable, but I never really have trouble hitting tbt's side torsos because it's just so dang huge.

Final point is also kinda moot, since OP said he plans on putting the same engine in regardless, which means the tbt does not have a speed advantage.

[Carrioncrows]

aniviron, on 31 May 2013 - 10:53 PM, said:

This is good advice, except:

Your first point is wrong because the 4sp does not have a hunch, and 4/7 hardpoints are in the arms, not the torsos.

The second is debatable, but I never really have trouble hitting tbt's side torsos because it's just so dang huge.

Final point is also kinda moot, since OP said he plans on putting the same engine in regardless, which means the tbt does not have a speed advantage.

All the hunchbacks have a hunch, but your right the 4-SP has 2 small hunches on either torso. But those TORSO's are so easy to hit. The Arms really absorb so little damage that it makes the Hunchback a lot like the Stalker in that it's Pure torso most of the time.

Also the 4Sp you are limited to those 6 missile tubes which means your LRM15 is going to come out in 3 waves and AMS is just going to shred a lot more of your missiles then they would if all 30 LRMs came in a single wave like they would with the 3C

The Treb is just a better missile boat, it's built for it, XL Engine, big missile tubes. The only real downside is that you end up taking most of your damage to the the CT or the ARMs, but the upside is the speed, the ability to mount more weapons, and the more tubes.

At the end of the day it will boil down to what you enjoy most piloting. I prefer trebs, other prefer HBKs, but at the end of the day it's what you are comfortable with.

Edited by Carrioncrows, 01 June 2013 - 12:41 AM.

[MistenTH]

I've switched from hunch ies to trebs cause of the speed I can get with safe xls. Found it allowef me better longevity and ability to reposition. Plus arms are excellent Shields to use if your torsos get breached.

Bonus if you use the jj variants instead. Then huge difference from the hunch ies.

[jper4]

i like them both- along with the jager S they're my favorites. now i think both have standard engines (trebbie may be an xl i don't recall atm). hunchy i have going at 92kph and trebbie at 106kph. with the hunchy i have 5ML and a pair of streaks, trebbie had 4ML and a pair of streaks with an extra ton of streak ammo. hunchy does run out of ammo on occasion but the MLs do enough to keep me in the game so to speak.

i'm not quite as aggressive with the hunchy and tend to stay with the group and pick off injured mechs more so my kdr is a bit higher there. wasn;t doing as well with SRMs in the 3C so i swapped them for streaks and kdr been improving with them loaded. 3C i tend to be a little more aggressive when it comes to trying to flank or hit the enemy from behind. hunchy tends to survive a bit longer under fire and has the head laser to uselessly annoy the enemy with after both sides get blown off, trebbie lacks that fun. i also play the wannabe light more with the 3C if we're light-less in the group.

[Megalosauroid]

The hunchback is better because although the treb is a lot faster the hunchback is a LOT more torso twist which is important for brawling.

[PropagandaWar]

apples to apples I would say hunchy.Trebs turn speed sucks and arm/torso movement is even worse.

Edited by PropagandaWar, 01 June 2013 - 09:18 AM.

[Child3k]

Treb has !very! limited arm movement - but I guess most (newer) players don't even know that they can move their mechs arms independantly ... so that point is kinda mute.

In a nutshell: For brawling and close range combat - HBK. For hit-and-run and if you want more versatility regarding engine sizes und therefore the ability to fullfill different roles: Treb.

Edited by Child3k, 01 June 2013 - 09:40 AM.

[Hotthedd]

Carrioncrows, on 31 May 2013 - 11:33 PM, said:

All the hunchbacks have a hunch, but your right the 4-SP has 2 small hunches on either torso. But those TORSO's are so easy to hit. The Arms really absorb so little damage that it makes the Hunchback a lot like the Stalker in that it's Pure torso most of the time.

Also the 4Sp you are limited to those 6 missile tubes which means your LRM15 is going to come out in 3 waves and AMS is just going to shred a lot more of your missiles then they would if all 30 LRMs came in a single wave like they would with the 3C

The Treb is just a better missile boat, it's built for it, XL Engine, big missile tubes. The only real downside is that you end up taking most of your damage to the the CT or the ARMs, but the upside is the speed, the ability to mount more weapons, and the more tubes.

At the end of the day it will boil down to what you enjoy most piloting. I prefer trebs, other prefer HBKs, but at the end of the day it's what you are comfortable with.

Do you even READ the posts before you respond? What difference does the ability to launch a full salvo of 30 LRMs make when he is running 2 SRM6? (or possibly 2 SSRMs)?

[Eximar]

Rokkaku, on 31 May 2013 - 10:14 AM, said:

I've already mastered each chasis, but just can't come to decide on which of these to keep.

Never sell anything. (Well, maybe single heat sinks...)

[Lefty Lucy]

The 4SP is one of my favorite and best-performing mechs of all time.

Unless you're planning on using the 2.5 tons for jump utility, it is the better laser/missile platform than the treb.

Why? You can easily use all 5 energy hard points with 2 SRM6 with a max standard engine. Due to lack-of-XL fragility and symmetry, this can make you a useful combatant even after taking heavy damage. There will often be a game where I'm nothing but a stick with a head laser, and I'm still contributing to victory.

The HBK has excellent twist and arm range. Precision laser fire against fast-moving targets is more easily accomplished than with the Treb.

The HBK is significantly smaller, allowing it better use of cover. In addition, you can easily poke above a ridge and fire at the enemy with your head laser, while they can not engage you effectively at all.

[Bishop Steiner]

Rokkaku, on 31 May 2013 - 10:14 AM, said:

This is likely taking way less thought than I'm putting into it, but I need a second opinion. Using the exact same build on both mechs, that being 4 Med Las and 2 SRM6+A with a STD 260 engine, giving them the same speed, heatsink amount, and armor. Are there really any pros or cons at this point other than hardpoint placement and mech size?

I've already mastered each chasis, but just can't come to decide on which of these to keep. I did think of putting an XL380 from my AWS-9M into the 3C and equipping it with SSRM2s and BAP instead of the SRM6 to become a light hunter, though my X-5 already serves that role.

Any thoughts on the matter would be appreciated.

the only reason I would use the TBC over the HBK would be to take advantage of it's much higher engine cap. Since you have decided not to, the HBK is better overall, with a smaller profile and better torso twist (and it doesn't sound like a horde of mosquito in your ear every time the servo moves).

I generally would rather load the Trebuchet with the largest XL I can though and let the speed keep me alive.

[Jman5]

If you wanted to use regular SRMs, I would use the 4sp. If you want to use Streaks, I would consider the 3C. The asymetrical missile hardpoints (left arm, right torso), makes it more difficult to line up a dummy fire SRM shot. Streaks negate this problem. The terrible torso twist and arm range makes keeping your targeting reticule on a light tricky at best. Streaks help you fudge the tracking quite a bit.

Edited by Jman5, 01 June 2013 - 05:12 PM.

[Carrioncrows]

Hotthedd, on 01 June 2013 - 12:16 PM, said:

Do you even READ the posts before you respond? What difference does the ability to launch a full salvo of 30 LRMs make when he is running 2 SRM6? (or possibly 2 SSRMs)?

Because he isn't always going to stay at 2 SRM6's. He is going to try it, come to the realization that SRM's right now blow and then look for an alternative, which is going to be streaks or LRM's.

Most likely LRM's to give him some range, the Treb can always downgrade to less missiles but the HBK-4SP can't Upgrade to more missiles in the case of LRM's.

I've got a HBK-4SP, it sits there because mounting LRM's on it is impractical due to the way AMS works. You can take it out for a spin with some large lasers but you'll be lucky to make it into medium range most games without getting a torso blown off, even if you do make into medium range your still facing off against a mech with x2 ERPPC's and a Gauss with your 4 medium lasers and x2 SRM6's (that hit like a wet noodle)

Guess which one generates less heat? Yup, the 2 ERPPC and Gauss is more heat efficient and can throw more alpha salvo's before coming close to shutting down.

4 Meds + 2 SRM6 = 28 heat a salvo every 4 secs.
ERPPC + Gauss = 22 heat a salvo every 4 secs.

I'm not trying to be harsh or cruel or ignore anyone's posts, I am just explaining all the given features of a mech.

Just plan'n ahead mate, as what we plan on paper rarely works out in practice.

Edit: My favorite build right now is TBT-5J - 5 medium lasers, SRM4, AMS, near max armor, full Jumpjets and a 325 XL with 16 DHS. With all the Boom-Jagers, ERPPC's, Gauss and other long range weapons the only way to really survive as a medium right now is speed or apocalyptic firepower.

Edited by Carrioncrows, 01 June 2013 - 05:11 PM.