41 replies to this topic

[Valensoul]

In 1 vs 1 who wins a Crusader or a Thunderbolt just asking to bad they arent in the game also lol night

[Skylarr]

The following information is extracted from the BattleTeckWiki and from the Technical Readout: 3025. Both of these Mechs are not listed on the Unseen list so were not listed in Technical Readout: 3025 Revised. Their images were redone and are listed in the Technical Readout: Project Phoenix. The Crusader CRD-5K and the Thunderbolt TDR-9M are the two variants shown in the Project Phoenix TRO.

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The Crusader was initially designed as a close combat 'Mech. Instead, the weapons payload that it carries allow it to work as a multi-role 'Mech that, while not excelling in any one role, is capable of accomplishing most missions that are assigned to it. The Crusader has a ground speed of 64.8 km/h, which is on par with most other 'Mechs of the heavy weight class. Like most heavy 'Mechs, it cannot jump. Additionally, it is armored with twelve tons of Reise-500 armor, giving it a great deal of armor protection.
Armament

The primary long-range weapons on the Crusader are two Magna Longbow-15 LRM-15 launchers. These provide the Crusader with long-range fire support capabilities that can compete with the Archer and Catapult. For short range combat, the 'Mech carries two Harpoon SRM-6 launchers and two Intek Medium Lasers. Finally, to deter infantry attacks against the Crusader, two M100 Machine Guns are mounted on the 'Mech.

65 Tons

CRD-3R
Speed 64.8 kph
Jump Jets non on this variant
Heat Sinks 10
Armor 192 points 12 Tons
Location...IS....AV
Head.........3......9
CT.............21....33/8
Rt/Lt T.......15....24/6
Rt/Lt Arm...10....20
Rt/Lt Leg...15....21

Weapons

• 2 x LRM-15s
  
• 2 x SRM-6s
  
• 2 x Medium Lasers
  
• 2 x Machine Guns

BV2 1,317


There are to many variants to list here.

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CRD-5K - The 5K Crusader is a complete upgrade produced by Cosby BattleMech Research Firm. The chassis has been redesigned using Endo Steel construction techniques and the engine has been upgraded to an XL Engine. The 'Mechs armament has been completely overhauled as well. The primary weapons are two Shigunga MRM 30 launchers and, as secondary weapons, it carries two Victory 23R Medium Lasers and two Victory Heartbeat Medium Pulse Lasers. To allow the 5K to share targeting data, it also carries a C3 Slave Unit. Finally, to vent waste heat, the 'Mech uses eleven double heat sinks and is protected with twelve tons of armor with CASE to protect itself from ammunition explosions. BV (1.0) = 1,223 (C3: 183), BV (2.0) = 1,463

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The Thunderbolt started production in 2491 as an assault 'Mech. Since that time the 'Mech's classification may have changed but it is still feared and respected by many. With the Thunderbolts varied arsenal it is capable of serving in many roles. As is common for 'Mechs of its size in the era it was produced, the Thunderbolt has a maximum ground speed of 64.8 kph and does not have any jump capabilities. For protection, the Thunderbolt also carries thirteen tons of armor.
The Thunderbolt is noted for featuring an exceptionally roomy cockpit, compared to that of the Atlas or BattleMaster.
Armament

Because of its eclectic weapons mix, the Thunderbolt does not have just one primary weapon. Its longest-range weapon is a Delta Dart LRM-15 missile launcher. Next in its long range arsenal is a Sunglow Type 2 Large Laser, which provides the Thunderbolt with respectable medium to long-range firepower. As ranges close, the Thunderbolt is able to bring its three Diverse Optics Type 18 Medium Lasers and a Bical SRM-2 missile launcher into play. Finally, for anti-infantry use, the Thunderbolt has two Voelkers 200 Machine Guns.

65 Tons

TDR-5S
Speed 64.8 kph
Jump Jets non on this variant
Heat Sinks 15
Armor 208 points 13 Tons
Location...IS....AV
Head.........3......9
CT.............21....30/11
Rt/Lt T.......15....24/6
Rt/Lt Arm...10....20
Rt/Lt Leg...15....29

Weapons

• 1xLarge Laser
  
• 1xLRM-15
  
• 3xMedium Lasers
  
• 1xSRM-2
  
• 2xMachine Guns

BV2 1,335


There are to many variants to list here.

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TDR-9M - The 9M carries the 7SE to its next logical step. The Thunderbolt has been further modified to make it excel at long-range combat. The 'Mech is built using an Endo Steel chassis and has twelve and a half tons of armor. The 'Mech has excellent maneuverability with a jumping distance of one hundred and twenty meters. The 'Mechs primary weapon is a Light Gauss Rifle. This is supported for long-range combat with an LRM-15 launcher. Finally, for close combat situations, the 9M carries three ER Medium Lasers. BV (1.0) = 1,500, BV (2.0) = 1,648

I would say the the 3025 T-Bolt would beat the 3025 Crusader. I am not sure who would win the with the unpgraded variants.

Edited by Skylarr, 01 June 2013 - 08:19 AM.

[Steinar Bergstol]

I'm a T-Bolt man all the way, but the Crusader stands just behind it as one of the more solid and dependable designs of the 3025 era. Put a Bolt of a Crusader on the line and you have a mech which will hold that line come hell or high water. I prefer both mechs to their more famous heavy brethren, the Marauder and Warhammer.

That said, the Thunderbolt by a hair's breadth. It is, in my opinion, the most awesomely solid mech for its weightclass in the original TR.

[Egomane]

The T-bolt!


They are both good mechs, but the Bolt can bring a far better heat management and a ton more armor to the table.

He can close the distance to the Crusader, firing both his large laser and LRM-15 without any heat build-up, while the Crusader has to stand still if he doesn't want to run to hot to soon. Every action, besides firing his twin LRM-15, will generate heat.

At short range, the T-bolt can use his 3 medium lasers, the SRM-2 and the MGs without ever running hot. Every now and then he can exchange a medium for the large laser without fear to recieve any penalties. The Crusader needs to decide if he wants to use his two medium lasers or his two SRM-6 along with his MGs. If he uses both at the same time all to often he will get slower and get penalties for his weapons fire.

[Mason Grimm]

The TDR-5SS is one of my favorite mechs. I actually ordered a Thunderbolt from IWM and modified the hell out of it so that it would match the 5SS and added it to my TT company.

[Valensoul]

well then if the developers do look at the forums give us our Thunderbolts and Crusaders and let them fight it out on Solaris 7 lol my bet is on me piloting a T Bolt eat my dust lol

[Karl Streiger]

As said - T-Bolt in TT - in MWO stock the Crusader will win.
And with MWO Hardpoint and possible custom layout the T-Bolt will win again

The T-Bolt can stay in battle longer because of more armor and more ammunition for ist missiles
Next to its ability to be usefull vs any kind of target.

Edited by Karl Streiger, 02 June 2013 - 11:54 PM.

[Paladin1]

Even though I'm a die hard Crusader fan, the truth is that the T'Bolt will take it at least 75% of the time for one reason; the CRD has side torso bombs. The ammo bays for the LRMs are in the side torsos and there's nothing else in there. Any crit, what so ever, to that torso will destroy that Crusader. The Thud doesn't have this problem, so it's going to take the win most of the time.

[Valensoul]

yeah Project Phoenix and my Thunderbolt heck yeah

[GumbyC2C]

in TT, the Thud will win probably 90% of the time in a one on one match and it will give a Warhammer or a Marauder a hard time too. In TT, I have see Thuds take down much larger mechs with astonishing regularity. The Crusader is not a bad mech. It's just not quite as good at the 65 ton mark. I personally prefer the 5SE or the 5SS, but the more common 5S is just fine too.

[Steinar Bergstol]

The reason the 'bolt is so impressive in Tabletop has one major cause: Armor. It carries more armor than most other heavy mechs of its era, and more than many assaults as well. That makes it ridiculously sturdy, and the legs are so well armored even a kick from an Atlas leaves it with about a third or the leg armor remaining and isn't gonna go through the plating, nevermind leg it.

When you add that kind of brute toughness to a respectable all-ranges weaponsloadout you just have an incredibly dependable mech.

And it looks damn cool too. Squat, brutish and ready to kick arse. It's like the standard fantasy setting dwarf translated into mech form. All it's missing is an axe.

Edited by Steinar Bergstol, 05 July 2013 - 10:53 AM.

[GumbyC2C]

Steinar Bergstol, on 05 July 2013 - 10:52 AM, said:

And it looks damn cool too. Squat, brutish and ready to kick arse. It's like the standard fantasy setting dwarf translated into mech form. All it's missing is an axe.

easily remedied at the nearest forest hex. Not an axe, but a Thunderbolt + a Louisville slugger is a threat to anything.
Love me some hand actuators.

[Solis Obscuri]

I'd actually give the Crusader a slight edge, at least so long as a floating crits rule isn't in play. Both 'mechs are well-armored, but also walking bombs carrying 4 ton of ammo without CASE. Both can fight effectively at any range. Both are well armed and armored (I wouldn't say the difference in armor or potential damage gives either a concrete advantage, especially without CASE).

But one key difference is that the Thunderbolt carries a lot more ammo per each weapon it has, while I find based on experience the Crusader tends to run out of everything except MG rounds by the end of a typical 20-round-or-so game playing lance vs. lance or company vs. company. So if the Crusader doesn't eat a TAC in the first 8 or 9 rounds, its risk of ammo explosion drops by about half, while the Thunderbolt's only drops about 25%. And the Crusader gets a lot more cluster-hit chances to crit something out.

Sure, it's sort of a gambler's choice, but that's part of the fun of TT Battletech!

[Pupecki]

thunderbolt will win 8 or 9 times out of ten if each player is evenly matched

[Vanguard319]

T-bolt for me, it's tough, it has a good weapon layout, and it even looks a little like a Summoner, which is one more plus for me

[BarPid]

I'd also have to say the T-Bolt would win more than half the time.
My reasoning is a little different from everybody else.

The main reason is close combat.
The crusader has its SRMs in its legs.
This means it has very little arc of fire when the target is very likely circling the mech.

The T-bolt has its large laser in an arm, MGs in the other arm, and its other close-combat weapons in the torso.
This enables the mech to better track a close-combat circling foe.

If I had my way, the 'Cru' move its LRMs to the side torsos and SRMs/med lasers to the arms.
THEN the crusader stands a much better chance against a circling foe.

Edited by BarPid, 28 October 2019 - 01:44 PM.

[Nesutizale]

I a Thunderbold guy. Loved to play it on TT much more then the Crusader.
About the Phoenix designs, while I prefere the old Crusader I like the new Thunderbold.

[KhanBhacKeD]

2013 topic guys.... what a late reaction

[martian]

I would take the Thunderbolt any day:

• Thunderbolt carries more armor than Crusader. Not much more, but it still counts in its favor.
  
• Thunderbolt lacks Crusader's infamous unpadded torso ammo bombs.
  
• Thunderbolt offers better ranged firepower. Its Large laser and LRM-15 allow it to keep the range open for at least 16 turns and even after Thunderbolt runs out of LRM ammo, its Large Laser counts as a credible 'Mech-opening medium range weapon. Crusader will have its LRM ammo bins empty after 8 turns.
  
• Heat capacity. Many 3025 'Mechs struggle with heat. Thunderbolt can handle one (or even two) engine hit way better than Crusader.
  
• Crusader is not even significantly cheaper than Thunderbolt, so there is no reason why to take it.

Upgrade potential:

• You can upgrade your trusty TDR-5S Thunderbolt to the TDR-7M model and it will be better in all practical respects than the original.
  
• None of 3050s Crusader upgrades is especially impressive. Sure, there is "some" improvement, but the 'Mech is about as mediocre as the 3025 was.

If you go shopping for a modern Thunderbolt in the Jihad and Republic era, you can choose from a half dozen of solid 'Mechs.
Crusader has got a few modern variants and none of them is especially appealing.

[Koniving]

And the zombie is again risen...