53 replies to this topic

[Phoenix Branson]

Every other thread on this forum is about weapon balance. Don't people realize that weapon balance is an iterative process? I think Paul and the other developers are doing a great job! Changes have to be done carefully and in small steps to ensure they are not being counterproductive. Please understand this is beta and the game WILL get better with time. There is no problem sharing good ideas, but not ranting and raving. Have patience.

Edited by Maverick01, 26 May 2013 - 06:00 PM.

[The Cheese]

How will they know that things are out of balance if no one tells them?

This is the Gameplay Balance forum. It is the one place where people should be discussing balance related issues.

Edited by The Cheese, 26 May 2013 - 06:12 PM.

[Und3rSc0re]

I thought one part of a beta is to beta test? We are in the beta forums and are telling pgi about our tests of balance.

Sure there may be multiples of certain balance posts but that is just because the mwo beta testers are very passionate about the game and besides how many people read through a 20+ page thread anyway, gotta start a new one sometimes.

Other than that, you heard maverick guys lets pack it up and leave it to pgi.

[LordBraxton]

Because the balance sucks



PS

SRMs need a buff so bad it is ridiculous

Edited by LordBraxton, 26 May 2013 - 06:18 PM.

[Rebas Kradd]

The game is fairly well-balanced so far. Some tweaks are needed, most notably SRM's, but it's certainly not the refund-demanding disaster that MG enthusiasts like to claim it is.

Edited by Rebas Kradd, 26 May 2013 - 06:29 PM.

[Asmudius Heng]

People would have more patience if PGI communicated better about these issues.

Speed is relative to their internal processes, but lack of understanding of this and decisions about balance leads to frustrated players.

Ranting and raving is counter productive though. PGI could make the forums a significantly better place by being more interactive and giving more information on this front.

People will still rant and rave, but at least it would be better informed ranting

[AntiCitizenJuan]

Please stop giving feedback during this beta test. Seriously guys wtf

[Sybreed]

hmmm... this is the gameplay balance thread. If this was the upcoming features or Clan Wolf forums, I'd agree, but this seems to be the right place to talk about weapon balance.

[Victor Morson]

Maverick01, on 26 May 2013 - 05:54 PM, said:

Every other thread on this forum is about weapon balance. Don't people realize that weapon balance is an iterative process? I think Paul and the other developers are doing a great job!

With some things, sure. With balance, no. Hell no.

This isn't about "Oh a weapon is slightly OP, all is OK" this is "So many weapons are absolutely terrible that there's all of five or six good weapons in the whole game." It's appalling and feedback backlash until our concerns are answered is all but required.

[Renthrak]

We don't know what activity will actually motivate a direct response by the devs. Available information is contradictory or simply vague. What actually gets attention?

Is it a flood of whining threads?

Is it an on-topic thread with 10 pages of replies?

Is it a poll with many votes and clear results?

Is it a detailed, in-depth discussion of the problem and potential solutions?

Quite frankly, I can only think of a single clear-cut example of forum activity having an immediate and obvious result: the cooling module reveal. A potential implementation of the system was posted, and the forums exploded with angry protest threads. The result? A dev post saying that they were 'going back to the drawing board' on the cooling modules, abandoning the previous idea.

Unfortunately, that example isn't very helpful.

[armyof1]

I think the LBX is a perfect example of why people are complaining so much about the weapon balancing in this game. Months of thread after thread trying to tell the devs the most expensive weapon in-game is crap, and finally when they'll look at it, they decided to make it 20% less crap, which means it's still really bad. The balancing is slow as heck and when something finally happens it's more for show, kinda like tossing the dog a bone than well thought out changes that's been suggested time and time again. The people that handle weapon balancing is just doing such a surprisingly bad job it makes you wonder which game they're actually working on. Because at times it seems like they're basing their conclusions on an entirely different game, or on how bad weapons are still usable amongst players that can't aim at all.

Edited by armyof1, 27 May 2013 - 05:04 AM.

[jakucha]

The Cheese, on 26 May 2013 - 06:07 PM, said:

How will they know that things are out of balance if no one tells them?

This is the Gameplay Balance forum. It is the one place where people should be discussing balance related issues.

Yes, but there's a difference between offering useful feedback and giving angry speeches; one helps, the other doesn't.

Renthrak, on 26 May 2013 - 07:32 PM, said:

We don't know what activity will actually motivate a direct response by the devs. Available information is contradictory or simply vague. What actually gets attention?

Is it a flood of whining threads?

Is it an on-topic thread with 10 pages of replies?

Is it a poll with many votes and clear results?

Is it a detailed, in-depth discussion of the problem and potential solutions?

Quite frankly, I can only think of a single clear-cut example of forum activity having an immediate and obvious result: the cooling module reveal. A potential implementation of the system was posted, and the forums exploded with angry protest threads. The result? A dev post saying that they were 'going back to the drawing board' on the cooling modules, abandoning the previous idea.

Unfortunately, that example isn't very helpful.

http://mwomercs.com/...apon-balancing/

They've been updating that thread a lot more often, so I don't think they're being silent about weapon balance.

Edited by jakucha, 27 May 2013 - 05:41 AM.

[MaddMaxx]

And some of the wondrous ideas found here are the solution? Please!

How would you make a 5 point weapons as good as a 10 or 15 pt weapon? You can't. Everyone wants their special toy as good as the others. You want real weapons Balance, make them all 7 pts. Done fixed enjoy. Make a Poll for that idea and see how it comes out...

Weapons Balance is the ultimate Catch-22 for any Dev Team. The ranting and ravings of the Forums is just more white noise they should simply ignore. Some will not be happy until the MG does 3 damage per pellet, so it is sort of in line with the AC20....

[DaZur]

I don't think the volume of balance discussion threads is problem... It's the ancillary sub-text that is dripping with contempt, sarcasm and vitriol that turns everyone off, including the devs...

Apparently it's more important for everyone in the room to take notice of the "critical thinker" and their mastery of all versus voicing a cognitive message of concern to the devs.

[MustrumRidcully]

DaZur, on 27 May 2013 - 06:02 AM, said:

I don't think the volume of balance discussion threads is problem... It's the ancillary sub-text that is dripping with contempt, sarcasm and vitriol that turns everyone off, including the devs...

Apparently it's more important for everyone in the room to take notice of the "critical thinker" and their mastery of all versus voicing a cognitive message of concern to the devs.

No, it's frustration. Maybe from "critical thinkers", e.g. people that have seen certain things coming long time ago in Closed Beta or observers of the general the slow progress (if we can call LRMs being broken in one patch and nerfed to the ground in a hotfix progress) in balancing.

[Cubivorre]

No.

[Nicholas Carlyle]

Cubivorre, on 27 May 2013 - 06:48 AM, said:

No.

GO MAKE A VIDEO OR SOMETHING.

[Greyfyl]

Maverick01, on 26 May 2013 - 05:54 PM, said:

Every other thread on this forum is about weapon balance. Don't people realize that weapon balance is an iterative process? I think Paul and the other developers are doing a great job! Changes have to be done carefully and in small steps to ensure they are not being counterproductive. Please understand this is beta and the game WILL get better with time. There is no problem sharing good ideas, but not ranting and raving. Have patience.

What game have you been playing???? Changes done carefully and in small steps??? Talk about living in a fantasy world.

[Nicholas Carlyle]

Greyfyl, on 27 May 2013 - 07:04 AM, said:

What game have you been playing???? Changes done carefully and in small steps??? Talk about living in a fantasy world.

lol so true. I'm curious to see if they will once again ignore LBX10's, Flamers, MG's and LRM's for another couple months and claim they are "fixed".

[Felbombling]

Sorry, Mav, but the Game Balance forums are the exact place you should find game balance discussion. You see a ton of discussion right now, indeed. All of it is deserved, some of it more than others. I like the devs and am impressed with how the game looks and feels, especially after only a year or so of work, but they urgently need help in the game balance and quality assurance departments.

This development team started out with bad weapon balance in Closed Beta. They continued the trend throughout, right into Open Beta. Now, months into Open Beta, the game balance is miles away from being workable. The whole time people have been posting in the forums that things were out of whack, with sound ideas on how to fix it... and the response has always been the same... whack-a-mole. "Ok, we get it... here... heat on the PPC is now eight!"

I know game design is hard, but this current meta is brutal. The game has devolved to the point that I had to abandon a Mech load out I found quite useful months ago for a cheese-grinder Gauss/PPC build just to be competitive this weekend. How does that happen in three months? State rewind must have a lot to do with it, as well as PPC tweaks made recently. That does not discount the fact that the dev team should have known months ago that the game was headed in this direction, given all the warning signs. What you are seeing now is frustration boiling over. Sad but true.