57 replies to this topic

[TurboChickenMan]

One possibility as to why PGI is making poor balancing decisions is that there are too many different viewpoints about how to fix things.

So here's an idea. Pick who you think, other than yourself, really knows what they're talking about regarding balance fixes.

You can pick more than one person if you like.

I'm abstaining due to a lack of experience. To everyone else, choose well, and hopefully some clear winners will emerge.

Update - List of members with more than one vote as of approx. 12:00 PM, July 15th:

Homeless Bill x9
Doc Bach x4
MustrumRidcully x4
Deathlike x2
FupDup x2
PEEFsmash x2
Roland x2
Tennex x2
Victor Morson x2

Edited by TurboChickenMan, 15 July 2013 - 09:01 AM.

[FupDup]

Doc Bach, Homeless Bill, Roland, Victor Morrison, Tennex, PEEFSmash (most of the time), Mustrum Ridcully, and Deathlike are the ones I can think of off the top of my head (I may have missed some).

Edited by FupDup, 12 July 2013 - 09:00 PM.

[General Taskeen]

Any MW:LL Dev.

[DarkJaguar]

FupDup, on 12 July 2013 - 08:56 PM, said:

Doc Bach, Homeless Bill, Roland, Victor Morrison, Tennex, PEEFSmash (most of the time), Mustrum Ridcully, and Deathlike are the ones I can think of off the top of my head (I may have missed some).

I'll nominate Sereglach, and Pht

[The Strange]

Homeless Bill.

http://www.qqmercs.com/?p=2780

http://mwomercs.com/...oats-and-clans/

[BarHaid]

Doc Bach, most def.

[Joseph Mallan]

BarHaid, on 12 July 2013 - 09:23 PM, said:

Doc Bach, most def.

Of course I am seconding My CO!!!

[Stoicblitzer]

anybody on a competitive team. some others. this is like reverse name n shame.

[CancR]

FupDup, on 12 July 2013 - 08:56 PM, said:

Doc Bach, Homeless Bill, Roland, Victor Morrison, Tennex, PEEFSmash (most of the time), Mustrum Ridcully, and Deathlike are the ones I can think of off the top of my head (I may have missed some).

A circle jerk of terrible ideas.

[Sephlock]

Can I cite the Devs' past selves?

[PEEFsmash]

Stoicblitzer, on 12 July 2013 - 09:33 PM, said:

anybody on a competitive team. some others. this is like reverse name n shame.

Pretty much this. Anyone who has experience playing as a top pilot with and against other top pilots at least MIGHT have something relevant to say about balancing the game. Players who are low-level at the game but judge themselves to have experience of the sort "X is overpowered because of what happens in my games"...these people are to be ignored, because what they see as imbalance is actually a reflection of their own piloting errors, bad aim, etc. Lower-level players CAN have meaningful input in balance by being up to date on competitve tourney trends and results, or by pointing out bugs, etc.

If you want names in particular, xDietyx is probably the most active forumgoer that nails it almost every time. Homeless Bill has some good things to say and he has unique suggestions/overhauls that in my opinion are typically too difficult to pull off and sometimes would flatten the skill cap a bit, but I know he doesn't have the exact same vision as me. Mongoose Trueborn of course comes with straight facts every time. Soy is a smart and great player who shares his knowledge and when he manages to stay on topic, says some very relevant stuff. The Snow Raven guys, many of the Templar guys, the Paragon guys, the KaoS guys, +SJR+ guys, DV8 guys...etc, basically guys from the top competitive teams like I said (including those I didn't name!)...they know a whole lot about balance because they play with and against top units, trying as hard as they can to find imbalances. We find those imbalances, they become the competitive trend, then months later it trickles down to the lower levels of play, sometimes in a bastardized form that isn't actually imbalanced. These top players know about imbalance, and they want it fixed. If they were wrong about what the best techniques/weapons in the game were, they wouldn't be winning at the highest level, now would they?

Much of balance discussion is the discussion of whether or not a technique/weapon can be dealt with. If it can be plausably and provably dealt with at all, the top players will be the ones to find that way, and their proving grounds is against other top teams. That is why top player advice/balance suggestion should at least get a good, long look. It should be noted that the word of the competitive player is not the word of God...anyone can make logical errors, have misperceptions, etc.

Edited by PEEFsmash, 12 July 2013 - 10:26 PM.

[Bagheera]

Havoc (might be with a k on the end) from DHB doesn't post often, but when he does it's usually pretty spot on, most of the others are either already listed, or lumped in their groups in PEEF's post.

Edited by Bagheera, 12 July 2013 - 10:24 PM.

[Victor Morson]

FupDup, on 12 July 2013 - 08:56 PM, said:

Doc Bach, Homeless Bill, Roland, Victor Morrison, Tennex, PEEFSmash (most of the time), Mustrum Ridcully, and Deathlike are the ones I can think of off the top of my head (I may have missed some).

Sounds like a very reasonable list. Scratch me off and replace me with FupDup, add Sephlock and it's a pretty solid line up.

He's not very vocal around here, but I'd also nominate Bloody Moon any day of the week from our unit. Most any officer in SJR knows their stuff, too.

DarkJaguar, on 12 July 2013 - 09:09 PM, said:

I'll nominate Sereglach, and Pht

I anti-nominate PHt. He holds TT in such insanely high regard he won't even admit the balance problems within that game.

General Taskeen, on 12 July 2013 - 08:59 PM, said:

Any MW:LL Dev.

YES. Most of them got hired by other companies because of their work on that project. While it had some rough edges and was a niche mod, their balance guy was on the ball.

I mean they started at TT values, then shifted away from them with each build until they found their own thing - just like MW:O - but they ended up with a weapon ecosystem where everything was viable, even machine guns and flamers. (EDIT: Yes, a couple builds had really overpowered/underpowered weapons! The Large Pulse Laser was the king for a while. The key is for a while. This amateur, unpaid mod managed to resolve literally dozens of balance issues with every patch.)

Also, their concept for 'mechlab wasn't bad at all (basing around classes of weapon sizes instead of weapon types) and would have lead to far fewer problems.

Seriously, if they hired these guys for a month to sort things out, they'd have a great game here.

Edited by Victor Morson, 12 July 2013 - 11:45 PM.

[One Medic Army]

Homeless Bill.

[Victor Morson]

Bagheera, on 12 July 2013 - 10:22 PM, said:

Havoc (might be with a k on the end) from DHB doesn't post often, but when he does it's usually pretty spot on, most of the others are either already listed, or lumped in their groups in PEEF's post.

There's tons of people on the forums that have great ideas but don't post much. Believe me, it would be impossible to list everyone qualified to assist. If anything this is just a "Of the people you know of off the top of your head" thing.

Believe me, if I didn't include you on that list, it doesn't mean I think your ideas are bad necessarily.

[Ralgas]

I doubt you'll find 1 person out of all of this that should/would be listened to exclusively

that said we all need to stop talking past each other on who's idea's may better and find some more unity and less hostility in discussions of what should happen, as well as have a little consideration on where the dev team is at and going with regard to building new systems and the tones used towards them (if only to prevent hostility towards future plans and idea's).

Edited by Ralgas, 12 July 2013 - 11:40 PM.

[blinkin]

FupDup, on 12 July 2013 - 08:56 PM, said:

Doc Bach, Homeless Bill, Roland, Victor Morrison, Tennex, PEEFSmash (most of the time), Mustrum Ridcully, and Deathlike are the ones I can think of off the top of my head (I may have missed some).

many on that list have yet to impress me (not that they are bad or not, i just haven't seen enough evidence) but a few names do pop out, Mustrum Ridicully and Deathlike. also i think focuspark would be a good one to add to the list, but i haven't seen him around here for a while.

DarkJaguar, on 12 July 2013 - 09:09 PM, said:

I'll nominate Sereglach, and Pht

i will say a very definite no to Pht. he may have some good ideas, but i have yet to see him explain ANYTHING clearly and have it make any sort of logical sense at all.

CancR, on 12 July 2013 - 09:36 PM, said:

A circle jerk of terrible ideas.

and another definite no to CancR, in fact i think this quote describes him very well.



you might want to start tracking any of the names that get more than one vote in the OP.

i wonder if any of my ideas are good enough to overcome the general fact that i am kind of a pain in the *** on these forums.

Edited by blinkin, 12 July 2013 - 11:45 PM.

[Appogee]

The MW:LL devs were mostly on the money.

[One Medic Army]

Forgot about Mustrum Ridcully, he's generally got at least some supporting logic behind his statements.

It's not about if you agree with someone or not, it's if they at least have good logic behind what they're saying.

[blinkin]

Appogee, on 12 July 2013 - 11:48 PM, said:

The MW:LL devs were mostly on the money.

i just wish there were enough people playing to fill more than 2 servers and the program would reliably run on my computer without having to reinstall everything a dozen times. when i could actually play that was most certainly one of the best multiplayer games i have ever played.