51 replies to this topic

[The Justicar]

Just hire him, PGI.

[Panzerkampfwagen IV]

Whats truly hilarious to me about this thread is that I have played with this crow guy several times and he's a baddie. I'm not really a fan of displaying elo, but one benefit would be to see who is giving you the advice so you can take it with a grain of salt. After having this dude on my team there's no way I take anything he had to say seriously.

Edited by Asian Tupac, 14 August 2013 - 10:26 AM.

[Khobai]

Doesnt really matter if hes good or bad hes still entitled in an opinion. And theres no reason to be an *** to him.

Personally, I think he raises some valid points, although I dont agree with a lot of the specifics of what he suggested, specifically on how to balance ES and FF.

Having standard structure give +20% internals and FF give +20% armor would be completely unbalanced. Every mech that currently uses ES would just swap out the ES for FF to get the armor/internal increase, and all theyd lose is a couple tons in exchange for a 20% survivability increase. That's ridiculous.

Youre basically giving a free 20% survivability increase to every mech that doesnt need it... while the mechs that actually do need it cant get it because they dont have 14 spare crit slots. Do we really want light mechs to be 20% harder to kill? Especially when half the heavies and most assaults cant get the same benefit?

ES and standard structure are 100% fine how they are now. It already is a choice between crits and tonnage.

FF could use a buff, but rather than increase max armor by 20%, it should just give you around 40% more armor points per ton instead of 12% more. So the weight savings would be closer to what ES gives you for the same number of crit slots.

Edited by Khobai, 14 August 2013 - 11:15 AM.

[Mad Dog Morgan]

The only way I could see FF getting a buff is halving its slot cost.

[Carrioncrows]

Asian Tupac, on 14 August 2013 - 10:25 AM, said:

Whats truly hilarious to me about this thread is that I have played with this crow guy several times and he's a baddie. I'm not really a fan of displaying elo, but one benefit would be to see who is giving you the advice so you can take it with a grain of salt. After having this dude on my team there's no way I take anything he had to say seriously.

lol.

No lies my elo is tanked.

I spend my days testing the limits of configurations, designs and weapons. More times than not I get my butt handed to me as the design is flawed, I die and the ELO drops lower.

Now I could spend my days simply running what works. Same old PPC / Gauss / LRM and make both my KDR and Elo skyrocket.

That is simply not the way I roll when I PUG.

Now when I roll 12 mans' that is a different story. I get down to brass tacks and bring out the ruthless hardcore builds.



I cover Pugging, Randoms, 4 mans, and 12 mans.

But that's a valid point if I only pugged and my perspective was simply based upon "Just" pugging then I would question my feedback as well.

Khobai, on 14 August 2013 - 10:59 AM, said:

Doesnt really matter if hes good or bad hes still entitled in an opinion. And theres no reason to be an *** to him.

Personally, I think he raises some valid points, although I dont agree with a lot of the specifics of what he suggested, specifically on how to balance ES and FF.

Having standard structure give +20% internals and FF give +20% armor would be completely unbalanced. Every mech that currently uses ES would just swap out the ES for FF to get the armor/internal increase, and all theyd lose is a couple tons in exchange for a 20% survivability increase. That's ridiculous.

Youre basically giving a free 20% survivability increase to every mech that doesnt need it... while the mechs that actually do need it cant get it because they dont have 14 spare crit slots. Do we really want light mechs to be 20% harder to kill? Especially when half the heavies and most assaults cant get the same benefit?

ES and standard structure are 100% fine how they are now. It already is a choice between crits and tonnage.

FF could use a buff, but rather than increase max armor by 20%, it should just give you around 40% more armor points per ton instead of 12% more. So the weight savings would be closer to what ES gives you for the same number of crit slots.

I don't think they would. I don't think most people would swap out ES for SS, simply because they are paying weight for Hp and slots. Most of the time its a real toss up on the builds themselves. I mean on an atlas that's 5 tons that you free up.

The point I was going with was to give people a REASON to take Standard structure outside of just slots. Lights, mediums, heavies all of them simply equip ES because there is no downside. I see that as a problem, only on assault mechs do you start running out of slot space and ES gets to be a compromise.

So if I am a light mech and weight is a priority, say in the Spider-5V or a Raven-4X and I want to make my mech tougher, I would use a Standard structure in an attempt to bulk up my mech. It's heavier but denser. Where as another pilot might want to pile on as many weapons as possible so they they opt for ES to get that extra 1.5-2.0 tons of weight.

What about having a heavy mech where ES can save them 3-4 tons of weight. I want people to agonize over saving weight or having 20% more structure HP.

The side benefit is that most assaults who use SS are a bit tougher. Awesome's, stalkers, atlas's stay up just for a little bit longer.

FF is the same way, I want people to have to agonize over if they want FF or ES when it comes to slots and space. Do they want to save weight for their mech or do they want the ability to equip 20% more armor.

They still have to pay for that 20% armor as it still takes up weight. It doesn't automatically give you 20% more armor, it just raises the max amount of armor you can equip at a slightly more points per ton of armor.

The only mech right that has FF on it is my Spider-5D which has a 235 XL, Endo, FF, ERPPC, 2 small pulse. Nothing else in the game is worthwhile simply because FF's benefit is so small and drawback is so massive.

Golden rule right now is ES before FF.

I wanted a reason to take FF.

Legit points all around

Edited by Carrioncrows, 14 August 2013 - 03:15 PM.

[Panzerkampfwagen IV]

One could theoretically argue that in 12v12 you are being carried by just playing your own role a structured team.

Pugging is a greater test of individual skill and adaptability.

[sC4r]

Carrioncrows, on 14 August 2013 - 03:12 PM, said:

Golden rule right now is ES before FF.

I wanted a reason to take FF.

Legit points all around

i suggested almost exact thing way back... guess what happened to it

pretty much what you said... es+ff atm you can fit into mechs up until BJ... and if you cant es always goes first
i personally had it in jenny and cicada no other mech could fit it maybe with exceptio of supermassive swayback which isnt legit build much (for those who dont know its 6 or 7 LL HBK-4P)

Edited by sC4r, 14 August 2013 - 03:34 PM.

[Carrioncrows]

Asian Tupac, on 14 August 2013 - 03:29 PM, said:

One could theoretically argue that in 12v12 you are being carried by just playing your own role a structured team.

Pugging is a greater test of individual skill and adaptability.

One that I use as a testing ground to build mechs that are far from competitive.

I could roll out and get you some screenshots of taking PUG'n seriously as proof, but better things to do with my time.

Wha's a better testament that I am constantly testing everything out there that is possible to run or having a good ELO?

Once the game is where its needed I will have ll the time in the world to work my ELO as everything will be decent.

Take it for what it's worth. *shrug*

[GRiPSViGiL]

I have to say there isn't much I want to argue against aside from maybe just the zoom topic. I could get down on these features day in and day out for a long time.


As a community we really should embrace this thread and push these ideas PGIs ways. I just hope they already have most of this in their plan before they get to deep. There is a lot of intuitive mechanics suggested and very sound balancing ideas.

[Carrioncrows]

Hopefully at the Launch event i'll get to tackle a few Dev's and bounce these idea's off of them in a more personal manner.

I signed up as a Commander and for Mediums. Hopefully our team can acquit ourselves well enough that it will lead a bit more credence to what subjects and points we want to make as far as balancing.


Here's hope'n.

Edited by Carrioncrows, 14 September 2013 - 01:40 AM.

[GRiPSViGiL]

Carrioncrows, on 14 September 2013 - 01:37 AM, said:

Hopefully at the Launch event i'll get to tackle a few Dev's and bounce these idea's off of them in a more personal matter.

Here's hope'n.

Dude, I will help, I will be there to! I am former college football player well known for bringing the wood and blasting fools,they won't know what hit them.

[Carrioncrows]

GRiPSViGiL, on 14 September 2013 - 01:41 AM, said:

Dude, I will help, I will be there to! I am former college football player well known for bringing the wood and blasting fools,they won't know what hit them.

Right on man! I'll see ya there.