45 replies to this topic

[Mech Wrench]

I have been building mechs sense MW2 and have never found a need to equip them with missiles less then LRM20 or SRM6. I do however find advantages using the smaller beam and ballistic weapons for heat efficiency, range advantages, and recycle rates. but with the Missiles the recycle rates stay the same, the heat becomes less efficient, and ton for ton does less damage the smaller you go. I'm not ruling out that there isn't an advantage for using the smaller missiles, perhaps it just never fit my piloting style. So i am wondering, anyone out there ever build mechs with these smaller missiles? if so why?

[Xantars]

I use LRM 5's all the time as its kinda hard to stick a LRM 20 on a light mech as for SRM's I use all types as they all work just as well

[arkanor]

Less damage ton-for-ton is wasted weight. I'm hearing a bunch of reasons to max out but not to go smaller, so my question to you is why?

I was always a fan of the smaller Ultra AC's, 5-10 size on medium/large-ish, usually opting for lasers on smaller mechs. As far as I remember large AC's just used tons of space without seeming to provide much benefit, I rather preferred the PPC for that kind of work.

Edited by arkanor, 07 June 2012 - 08:30 PM.

[SnakeTheFox]

Why? Tonnage related issues, really. Sure, 2 LRM20s are more weight effective than 4 LRM10s, but if it's a choice between 2 LRM15s or 1 LRM20 as an example, weight-wise, the way to go is obvious. Sometimes the difference between an overweight mech and a balanced one comes down to a couple tons.

But then again I don't tend to missile boat, so missiles on my mechs are usually just ancillery weapons for harrassment or backup purposes. Mounting an LRM10 on a close-range mech so I can soften targets up while I close the gap, for example.

But I'm not really a munchkin/power gamer, so I'm sure self-described "pros" probably don't build mechs in that fashion.

Edited by SnakeTheFox, 07 June 2012 - 08:33 PM.

[Kasiagora]

I build with smaller LRM racks all the time.
–The LRM-5 is a great long-range, light-weight, and compact weapon for a small mech or to supplement a mech's primary ranged weapon. Like a Grasshopper as a little added bonus to its large laser.
–The LRM-10 is perfect for medium weight support mechs that can not spare the tonnage for an LRM-20, or if it could then having two LRM-10s shows a strength in that if you'd only had one 20-rack and missed you would have lost a sizable amount of your effectiveness.
–The LRM-15, however, I almost never use.
–The SRM-2 I seldom use unless it's for a light scout, or I want to build a harasser that can survive in extended length battles without resupply. That's the only reason why I use an AC/2 also is because that little gun gets 45 shots per ton of ammo! You just have to be patient and plink away.
–The SRM-4 I use nearly as much as the SRM-6, but again, just for smaller mechs. The SRM-6 is my favorite due to the slim possibility for 12 damage in one shot.

[Reported for Inappropriate Name]

only go smaller if it's for adding more versatility. if this is not possible then it's only logical to supersize everything you can.

take the catapult for example, it doesn't have the hardpoints to do well rounded, it's either go big or go even more disadvantaged

the awesome is the same way as well, only what, 4 energy hardpoints? in this case it's go big or go disadvantaged.

but then you have things like the atlas, you can put an ac/20 in there, put an lrm 10 or srm 6 in there, and medium lasers. you have something for all ranges

and the stalker, i mean you have to stagger fire but damn, points for lrm and srm, 2 big lasers (i will see about putting ER lasers or ppc's, maybe even gauss if i feel bold enough in there to compliment the lrm's), and of course 4 medium lasers.

well rounded is the way to go if your mech wasnt explicitly designed for a few heavy hitters.

[Ramien]

Actually, by TT rules and IS tech, you save two tons of weight and one critical slot with four LRM 5s compared to one LRM 20, for the cost of two extra points in heat. Ammo load's the same in terms of total number of shots ton-for-ton, and you can take hits to the weapons and still keep going.

[yeshim]

If I just look at the stats quickly on sarna it seems like they are actually MORE effective if you use them in smaller versions?

LRM 20 is 10 tons and 5 crits while 4 LRM 5's are 8 tons and 4 crits? (2 tons and 1 crit each).

Exactly how this will work in this game with the hardpoints and other tweaks I don't know

[Mech Wrench]

I was looking at the weapon stats on MW4 mercs. I would like to see more incentive to use the smaller missile weapons

[Ilfi]

In MW4, SRM4s were actually better than SRM6s. An SRM6 took up two slots while an SRM4 took up one, so you could get more bang for your buck by fitting two SRM4s in the same amount of space an SRM6 used. It also gave you more ammo and a faster firing sequence.

Assuming something similar happens, that should be reason enough. If not, then there will still be reason to use lesser variants due to tonnage or hardpoint restrictions.

Edited by FenixStryk, 07 June 2012 - 08:53 PM.

[Roland]

In MW4, the best CSTRKS were the 4's, due to their increased knockdown power compared to the 6's... could also stuff more of them into a mech.

[Kasiagora]

That would certainly explain why the Baboon was designed the way it was, and so why many of those later mechs min-max like munchkins, but I already knew why in the case of some, like medium laser boats. That was starting a little bit with mechs like the Catapult's 4 meds, the Grasshopper too, and then even more so when TRO:2750 came out. Omni mechs are just a natural progression of that.

[Clay Pigeon]

In MW4 I would forgo all missiles to free up more weight for direct fire weapons.

[Faceless Priest]

LRM 5s have so many uses i can't really explain in perticuler, mostly just that it's a useful long range weapon that's light and "something to fire".

Lesser SRMs can have their uses, filling up empty tons and such.

I've built vehicles and mechs that go for slightly less weight efficiency in order to average out the number of times you will hit. Such as using 4 LRM 5s instead of 1 LRM 20. It has it's uses in the table top at least, and even in the comp games being able to manage with smaller packages of heat and ammo expenditure is useful.

[Infine]

In MW4 there's not much sense going smaller missile-wise. Except for (CS)SRMs, where you get 6-pack in 2 slots for (CS)SRM6 and 8-pack in 2 slots for (CS)SRM4. Bonus point - smaller launchers have less salvos and are, therefore, easier to dumbfire.

But overall smaller missiles are at a disadvantage due to MW4 AMS mechanics. In MW4 AMS shots down the first group of each locked missile salvo. Therefore you get 25% efficency drop for LRM20, 33% drop for LRM15 and CSSRM6, 50% drop for LRM10 and CSSRM4 and 100% drop for LRM5 and CSSRM2. So unless you are planning to dumbfire or not expecting AMS, you go bigger.

[Mech Wrench]

How do you explain the srm4 to have greater knock down power?

[Infine]

Mech Wrench, on 07 June 2012 - 09:31 PM, said:

How do you explain the srm4 to have greater knock down power?

Do they?

I think they don't. You can just squeeze more of them in a single alpha.

[Volume]

SRM4's only take up one Critical, so you can fit two of them on a Dragon, as opposed to one SRM6.

two LRM5's weigh less than one LRM10 but take up the same critical space, so I usually swap an LRM10 for two LRM5's, as there are two missile hardpoints everywhere that I'd be using one LRM10 (Dragon, say.)

[Woodstock]

So long as you're not using artemis the LRM 5 is better 'bang for your buck' So I will be replacing the LRM 10 on my Centurion straight away with 2 x LRM5's

But once Artemis comes in that advantage disappears.

Also the Hardpoint system might not allow for tooooo many LRM5's

Rik

[sumdumfu]

in Mercs which i just started replaying, sometimes total weight is more important than DpT. sometimes after loading out with ACs/LBXs/ERLGLs/whathaveyou, i only have a few tons left; not enough for an LRM20, but enough for an LRM10 or 5.

definitely use the 20s if your primary attack is missiles, but otherwise sometimes they just wont fit.