31 replies to this topic

[Mighty Virtus]

I have a question...why when I have a LRM lock on a target well within range and I fire on it and the lock and entire visual contact completely disappears leaving my volly of missiles to land on nothing

[Spiketail Drake]

They might have stepped back into the ECM range of one of their buddies, or went far enough out of your sight to cancel the lock.

[Jojobird]

You have to keep the lock in order to maintain the tracking. If you loose lock, the missiles go to last location of target. If you reacquire lock on the same target before they land, they regain lock. Reasons why you loose lock might be lack of line of sight, lack of relay of targeting by a teammate (you had lock because a teammate had it, and he either changed target, walked into ECM or target walked into ECM or you got ECMed), or loosing a direct LoS lock due to ECM on you or target or yourself. You also have to maintain the targeting crosshair in "lock zone" to maintain lock.

[Redshift2k5]

There is a module you can unlock & purchase for improved Target Decay; this means that after a target leaves line of sight and enters cover, you continue to lock-on to that target for a few additional seconds

Some cover will still be high enough to block the LRMs but most is not. Depending on how far away you are, those extra 2 or 3 seconds may be just enough to land your LRM volley on a target attempting to break lock.

[scJazz]

Redshift2k5, on 01 June 2013 - 06:11 AM, said:

There is a module you can unlock & purchase for improved Target Decay; this means that after a target leaves line of sight and enters cover, you continue to lock-on to that target for a few additional seconds

Some cover will still be high enough to block the LRMs but most is not. Depending on how far away you are, those extra 2 or 3 seconds may be just enough to land your LRM volley on a target attempting to break lock.

It is 2.75 and 3.5 sec for Target Decay and Advanced. This adds 0.75 sec or 1.5 sec to the normal 2 second delay.

[Koniving]

zdierkes, on 01 June 2013 - 02:43 AM, said:

I have a question...why when I have a LRM lock on a target well within range and I fire on it and the lock and entire visual contact completely disappears leaving my volly of missiles to land on nothing

You said visual contact disappears. So you can no longer see the target?

The targeting system works in 2 ways.

• One. You obtain visual sighting of the enemy. This is assuming only you can see the enemy. There's a delay in focusing the sensors to get detailed information on the target but once it is acquired you get a red square around the target. Technically you can acquire lock before this, but it goes faster once you have the data. If you lose the visual, you lose the lock.
  
• Here's where the second way works. An ally gets a visual read on an enemy. It pops up as a hollow (is detected but NOT focused) or solid (is detected and locked by ally) triangle that you can target. In this case, you are relying on relayed information given by the ally. This ally is feeding you targeting data, which you can use to acquire a lock and fire. If your enemy cannot be seen visually, this is how you are locking on to your target.

Either way, if visual contact is lost by everyone, you can no longer maintain a lock.

Target Decay is a module available under pilot lab, pilot trees, which allows you up to x number of seconds to maintain the lock after it is lost.

Edited by Koniving, 01 June 2013 - 08:37 AM.

[mailin]

This is why it is so critical that everyone understands the importance of pressing 'R' to lock targets, and unfortunately, its something that not everyone is doing. The best way to keep a target is to maintain LOS, but that's not always possible, nor advisable.

[scJazz]

mailin, on 01 June 2013 - 10:31 AM, said:

This is why it is so critical that everyone understands the importance of pressing 'R' to lock targets, and unfortunately, its something that not everyone is doing. The best way to keep a target is to maintain LOS, but that's not always possible, nor advisable.

2 Weeks ago during LRMCalypse take 4 people couldn't get their fingers off the Lock Key... now PFFT

[Mighty Virtus]

mailin, on 01 June 2013 - 10:31 AM, said:

This is why it is so critical that everyone understands the importance of pressing 'R' to lock targets, and unfortunately, its something that not everyone is doing. The best way to keep a target is to maintain LOS, but that's not always possible, nor advisable.

Well with my tactics/strategy I like to use with my CPLT-C4 I try to use it as a "mobile artillery" unit and trying to actually stay OUT of the enemy's line of sight as I am only armed with LRM's, TAG and NARC, and if I am spotted, and they get too close to me I'm done. I'm trying to provide fire support for the "front line" of offense but being (or trying to be) far enough away that most weapons from the enemy has little to no damage or threat to me.
It's a strategy that works for the most part, although not very often, as long as at least a couple of my lancemates are aware of my tactical support and try to protect me if they see me being targeted. I can actually be pretty effective to the battle as a whole in this role.
I got my C4 Cat wrapped in a lot of ferro-fibrous armor, and twin LRM20's on each arm. Thats like 36 damage spread out when fired simultaneously if they all hit their mark! Add that to the fire the target is taking from the front line fighters and dude won't be alive very long!
Well, since this is a new "role" I'm just creating for myself, and I hope you guys understand what I'm trying to pull off with my Cat's loadout...can someone give me some tactical tips on how to make this strategy work or how to put together something that would fit this strategy?

(This game would be so much better to play as far as teamwork and and voice communication, but I never hear anyone talking in a game, only chatting. And personally I find it VERY difficult to type out a request for support or to tell someone to protect our base when the enemy is pounding me in a fierce battle!!)

[Mighty Virtus]

Koniving, on 01 June 2013 - 08:37 AM, said:

You said visual contact disappears. So you can no longer see the target?

The targeting system works in 2 ways.

• One. You obtain visual sighting of the enemy. This is assuming only you can see the enemy. There's a delay in focusing the sensors to get detailed information on the target but once it is acquired you get a red square around the target. Technically you can acquire lock before this, but it goes faster once you have the data. If you lose the visual, you lose the lock.
  
• Here's where the second way works. An ally gets a visual read on an enemy. It pops up as a hollow (is detected but NOT focused) or solid (is detected and locked by ally) triangle that you can target. In this case, you are relying on relayed information given by the ally. This ally is feeding you targeting data, which you can use to acquire a lock and fire. If your enemy cannot be seen visually, this is how you are locking on to your target.

Either way, if visual contact is lost by everyone, you can no longer maintain a lock.

Target Decay is a module available under pilot lab, pilot trees, which allows you up to x number of seconds to maintain the lock after it is lost.

I understand what you mean about the targeting and how it works I guess, but it seems, and I even tested it to see if it was actually true by laying my locked crosshairs on a target as he goes in and out of cover or obstacles and the lock remains solid. No glitches, no loss and reacquiring the lock for nearly 3 minutes...as SOON as I fire those missile's...poof, the lock and even the radar contact disappears even though I can zoom in and visually see the dude's mech. THATS what ticks me off!! And that's what I can't figure out. I don't know if it's a glitch in the game, my particular Mech setup and/or loadout or what...but it never happens when I'm within at least 500m (half the 1000m max range of LRM's). So until I figure that out, or if is a glitch, it get's patched, I'm wasting a lot of amo!

[MonkeyCheese]

zdierkes, on 02 June 2013 - 04:14 AM, said:

Well with my tactics/strategy I like to use with my CPLT-C4 I try to use it as a "mobile artillery" unit and trying to actually stay OUT of the enemy's line of sight as I am only armed with LRM's, TAG and NARC, and if I am spotted, and they get too close to me I'm done. I'm trying to provide fire support for the "front line" of offense but being (or trying to be) far enough away that most weapons from the enemy has little to no damage or threat to me.
It's a strategy that works for the most part, although not very often, as long as at least a couple of my lancemates are aware of my tactical support and try to protect me if they see me being targeted. I can actually be pretty effective to the battle as a whole in this role.
I got my C4 Cat wrapped in a lot of ferro-fibrous armor, and twin LRM20's on each arm. Thats like 36 damage spread out when fired simultaneously if they all hit their mark! Add that to the fire the target is taking from the front line fighters and dude won't be alive very long!
Well, since this is a new "role" I'm just creating for myself, and I hope you guys understand what I'm trying to pull off with my Cat's loadout...can someone give me some tactical tips on how to make this strategy work or how to put together something that would fit this strategy?

(This game would be so much better to play as far as teamwork and and voice communication, but I never hear anyone talking in a game, only chatting. And personally I find it VERY difficult to type out a request for support or to tell someone to protect our base when the enemy is pounding me in a fierce battle!!)

Drop the narc asap, I'm my elo range I see zero people using it outside of the troll builds like a all narc/tag stalker, its currently useless for the weight and slots it takes up, lights don't use it and the dedicated lrm boats don't either. Narc is a new player trap just like the trial 80kph ravens.

Especially since you just said you are trying to stay out of battle then even if narc was working well I still think the tonnage and critical slots could be used better.

I don't know how much weight you are using in narc and narc ammo but would recommend taking a ER Large Laser instead, it has more range than lrms for those larger maps and you can use it with the lrms when you have line of sight on the enemy. You are a heavy Mech heat from an ERLL shouldn't be a problem.

Also if you can afford it (like 15k exp and 6mil cbils) the new upgraded seismic sensor is wonderful for locating enemy's around corners and through walls so you can avoid them better

Hope this can help

Edited by MonkeyCheese, 02 June 2013 - 09:20 AM.

[Koniving]

NARC works, but it's best delivered by a light. If the target is that close to an LRM boat there's no point.

[Hellen Wheels]

zdierkes, on 02 June 2013 - 04:21 AM, said:

I understand what you mean about the targeting and how it works I guess, but it seems, and I even tested it to see if it was actually true by laying my locked crosshairs on a target as he goes in and out of cover or obstacles and the lock remains solid. No glitches, no loss and reacquiring the lock for nearly 3 minutes...as SOON as I fire those missile's...poof, the lock and even the radar contact disappears even though I can zoom in and visually see the dude's mech. THATS what ticks me off!! And that's what I can't figure out. I don't know if it's a glitch in the game, my particular Mech setup and/or loadout or what...but it never happens when I'm within at least 500m (half the 1000m max range of LRM's). So until I figure that out, or if is a glitch, it get's patched, I'm wasting a lot of amo!

This. This happens to me over and over. Meanwhile, everyone around me seems to retain their lock.

Something is amiss. I haven't noticed about the range before, but I think you're right. I have the same exact frustrating thing occurring.

[Nebelfeuer]

zdierkes, on 02 June 2013 - 04:14 AM, said:

Well with my tactics/strategy I like to use with my CPLT-C4 I try to use it as a "mobile artillery" unit and trying to actually stay OUT of the enemy's line of sight as I am only armed with LRM's, TAG and NARC, and if I am spotted, and they get too close to me I'm done. I'm trying to provide fire support for the "front line" of offense but being (or trying to be) far enough away that most weapons from the enemy has little to no damage or threat to me.
It's a strategy that works for the most part, although not very often, as long as at least a couple of my lancemates are aware of my tactical support and try to protect me if they see me being targeted. I can actually be pretty effective to the battle as a whole in this role.
I got my C4 Cat wrapped in a lot of ferro-fibrous armor, and twin LRM20's on each arm. Thats like 36 damage spread out when fired simultaneously if they all hit their mark! Add that to the fire the target is taking from the front line fighters and dude won't be alive very long!
Well, since this is a new "role" I'm just creating for myself, and I hope you guys understand what I'm trying to pull off with my Cat's loadout...can someone give me some tactical tips on how to make this strategy work or how to put together something that would fit this strategy?

(This game would be so much better to play as far as teamwork and and voice communication, but I never hear anyone talking in a game, only chatting. And personally I find it VERY difficult to type out a request for support or to tell someone to protect our base when the enemy is pounding me in a fierce battle!!)

Drop the narc and bring 2xssrm+ an additinal med laser with your tag and twin LRM launchers. that gives you the chane to deal with enemys close by yourself. Pure missleboats are only a viable choice in a premade team.
Narc would mean you have to enbgage closerange in order to place it and disengage afterwards in order to make use of i - not the best idea while playing a heavy mech. Tag works better at range , allows you penetrate ecm cover but requires line of sight. I´d basically advise you to not hang back to much but get closer to the action in order to support your team otherwise targets will loose lock before your missles reach them.. Make good use of your Jumpjets - combined with tag they allow quick locktimes while jumping and you can regain your target even if you have lost it before the missles hit your opponent.
BAP and adv. target decvay module are adviseable if LRM are your main weapon.
the mistake most poeple make with LRM is hanging back to much - Catapults are highly mobile mechs with JJ -use hat to your atvantage. Your main fighting distance with is between 600 and 180 meters everything further away is basically a game of luck and psychological warefare. Do not rely on other mechs spottings but be prepared to do it yourself mostly in PUG games unles you are allready hurt badly.

Edited by Nebelfeuer, 02 June 2013 - 11:46 AM.

[Mighty Virtus]

MonkeyCheese, on 02 June 2013 - 09:15 AM, said:

Drop the narc asap, I'm my elo range I see zero people using it outside of the troll builds like a all narc/tag stalker, its currently useless for the weight and slots it takes up, lights don't use it and the dedicated lrm boats don't either. Narc is a new player trap just like the trial 80kph ravens.

Especially since you just said you are trying to stay out of battle then even if narc was working well I still think the tonnage and critical slots could be used better.

I don't know how much weight you are using in narc and narc ammo but would recommend taking a ER Large Laser instead, it has more range than lrms for those larger maps and you can use it with the lrms when you have line of sight on the enemy. You are a heavy Mech heat from an ERLL shouldn't be a problem.

Also if you can afford it (like 15k exp and 6mil cbils) the new upgraded seismic sensor is wonderful for locating enemy's around corners and through walls so you can avoid them better

Hope this can help

\
Any info at this point helps. And I'll tell ya, I'm shooting for that seismic sensor, I got it unlocked but I'm having a helluva time gaining the cbills for it and maintaining loadouts on my 7 friggin owned 'Mechs trying to find a loadout that works!! I got the Adv. Sensor unlocked, but when I open my module screen in the mechbay the only option I have is that Adv. sensor, not the standard one, and the Adv. sensor is 6 mil for cryin out loud!! I'm sittin on 1,187,983 cbills now and a mech I can arm cause I sold a bunch of its weapons for a faster engine for my Misery! (bad move, I know...I'm still learning!)

Ok, you seem to be very knowledgeable on this, but what could you suggest a good loadout including armor, structure type, etc. for a CPLT-C4? That's my primary 'Mech that I started with as far as first owned one, it's my favorite...always has been since Mechwarrior came out!

[Nebelfeuer]

IF you can afford to invest a little try this one out:
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...db6671fc570eaed

[MonkeyCheese]

zdierkes, on 02 June 2013 - 03:48 PM, said:

Ok, you seem to be very knowledgeable on this, but what could you suggest a good loadout including armor, structure type, etc. for a CPLT-C4? That's my primary 'Mech that I started with as far as first owned one, it's my favorite...always has been since Mechwarrior came out!

For the default c4 engine (I assume that is what you are using) I would recommend this http://mwo.smurfy-ne...8b108875109f21f
max armor
2 jumpjets
2 lrm15 + 6 tons ammo
2 streaks +2 ton ammo
1 tag for the lrms
1ml
1 bap
dhs
endo
ferro

so 200 ssrm ammo
1080 lrm ammo
(You can go to 1ton ammo if u need more lrm ammo)

As Nebelfeuer said up there ^

The beagle active probe for increasing the lock on speeds for the lrms/streaks also since the last patch the bag will cut down any ecm within 150m of you so you can streak them.

I would drop the 2 lrm20s for 2 lrm15s so you have space

The 2 streak launchers so you have some close range defense along with that medium laser, lots of light pilots including myself will ignore larger targets with streaks unless it is the end of the battle and there is nothing else to shoot at.

And never forget you have jumpjets, 2 should be plenty to scale most areas where a non jumpjetting enemy cant follow.

Nebelfeuer, on 02 June 2013 - 04:37 PM, said:

IF you can afford to invest a little try this one out:
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...db6671fc570eaed

This works too if you are willing to take a xl engine

Either build should help with mechs that come close.

Edited by MonkeyCheese, 02 June 2013 - 04:41 PM.

[Nebelfeuer]

good build too Monkey Cheese.
looking at it: my ssrmammo in the head is crap for a CAT - put it in the legs and one LRM in the other arm like monkey did.
Personally i like to fly so I keep the JJ;-) XL is normaly not a problem on a range CAT from my expirience so if you got the meney go for it.

Oh and not sure if it is known - Open your missle doors (look it up in oprions) before entering combat otherwise you have a 0.5 sec delay each time and waste a lot of lockon time

Edited by Nebelfeuer, 02 June 2013 - 05:40 PM.

[Johnny Reb]

zdierkes, on 02 June 2013 - 03:48 PM, said:

\
Any info at this point helps. And I'll tell ya, I'm shooting for that seismic sensor, I got it unlocked but I'm having a helluva time gaining the cbills for it and maintaining loadouts on my 7 friggin owned 'Mechs trying to find a loadout that works!! I got the Adv. Sensor unlocked, but when I open my module screen in the mechbay the only option I have is that Adv. sensor, not the standard one, and the Adv. sensor is 6 mil for cryin out loud!! I'm sittin on 1,187,983 cbills now and a mech I can arm cause I sold a bunch of its weapons for a faster engine for my Misery! (bad move, I know...I'm still learning!)

Ok, you seem to be very knowledgeable on this, but what could you suggest a good loadout including armor, structure type, etc. for a CPLT-C4? That's my primary 'Mech that I started with as far as first owned one, it's my favorite...always has been since Mechwarrior came out!

I don't own a C-4 Cat however I would run a build like this:

http://mwo.smurfy-net.de/mechlab#i=24&l=0d247d9b983c95df342c8414820cf7ec5823f1c9

Edited by Johnny Reb, 02 June 2013 - 08:02 PM.

[scJazz]

Zdierkes, I just finished getting 3/3 Basic in Catapults yesterday. The C4 is my second favorite of the Cats, most favorite being the A1. This is the C4 I used...

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...f28066245ed61f0

Catapult CPLT-C4 "Spitting Fang"
XL280 69.8kph standard
400/422 Armor
10 DSHS
2 ALRM15 (4 Tons/24 salvos)
2 SSRM2 (1 Ton/25 salvos)
TAG
Medium Laser
AMS + BAP
ES + Artemis + DSHS

Design Notes:

• There are 2 free tons which can be used to upgrade the TAG/ML to MPL, more ammo, more DSHS, or engine
  
• XL280 Engine was chosen because it fits very nicely in Trebuchets, Highlanders and perfectly in 70 ton mechs.
  
• Weapon Groups used where LRMs + TAG and Streaks + ML + TAG making the whole shooting process much simpler. You can make it as complicated as you desire.
  
• Never felt a real shortage of ammo, could just be me. I've been operating with 25 salvo loads the whole game so far. As 80Bit's Tips suggest don't bring more than you need and if you never run out you have too much.