1217 replies to this topic

[DeaconW]

Milt, on 02 July 2013 - 04:32 AM, said:

yes and no, there were more available tactics but one tactic clearly outperformed others. weapon, heat, and convergence balance should have been, could have been used to balance the tactics. the more viable means to play this game means more ways for ppl to have fun playing this game. the jj nerf simply removed one of our options.

I don't disagree that others things could have been adjusted...but the poptart meta was so OP something had to be done to counter the Highlander+JJ+PPC's. The net result from my perspective was the return of most of the other options that had been sidelined due to the poptart meta meaning a net *increase* in flexibility and more viable mech variants. That is why I think it was a good thing. I think a lot of people are having fun playing this game (I know I am having a lot more fun since the change) and the option to poptart hasn't been removed(as cited by numerous people on this very thread), just a more limited and balanced role.

[Nebelfeuer]

DeaconW, on 02 July 2013 - 04:45 AM, said:

I think a lot of people are having fun playing this game (I know I am having a lot more fun since the change) and the option to poptart hasn't been removed(as cited by numerous people on this very thread), just a more limited and balanced role.

It´s not the poptarting that we are missing it is the other JJ related uses that got nerved way more then the poptartding by this "fix".
Besides the poptart problem could have ben solved along with pinpoint damage problem without nerfing the JJ in one go( e g by introducing the random aiming we now have while jumping whenever you fire multiple weapons at once) so the assumed priority order of balance fixes makes no sense here.

[Kamies]

PGI. Where is the promised fix of the jumpjet fix? Are you too busy or do you think players feeling nausea is a thing that it is not so important right now? Or are you gathering some abstract information about the current non-flying lights meta? Or do you just hate poptarts so much? A month ago you were freaking instructing us to visit the doctor if we feel ill or to stop using jumpjets and I really thought you were taking this seriously but no. You are giving us a jumpjetting mech after another and now the hill climb angle thing punishes the non jumpjetcapable mechs.

Messing around with peoples health is unforgivable.

[sgt scout]

another month of me in my stalker/attlas/centurion i see

[sgt scout]

Did they promise a fix ???? Ive seen nothing from them which is the only reason i keep coming back to this thread. Do they achknowledge it at least ? I have not seen a single post from PGI addressing the shake and the nausea it gives to players. Only troll sick bag posts, from the devs, a month ago !

I wanted to support this game for the longest time and your choice of wording is spot on. Its unforgivable.
I saw a post of someone trying to sell his account but it got deleted either meaning it was not a suitable place to be selling the account, or its illegal.

Does any one know if its actually illegal ?

[Kamies]

OK they actually reduced the amount of cockpit shake considerably in this patch They did it but it just isn't in the patch notes. I almost ragequited the whole game and was almost writing an e-mail to PGI about refunding my remaining MC. Good thing someone (not PGI) opened a thread about the fixed jumpjet fix and I spotted it in time. This nausea thing was a huge thing for me and thank god they addressed the problem.

Still there is some shake left atleast with Cataphract so it is still too early to say if I won't get any sick in a long run but it looks promising and I might be able to get used to this. If this fixed the problem I will buy the biggest Phoenix pack. If not... not sure yet what I will do.

Edited by Kamies, 02 July 2013 - 11:37 AM.

[sgt scout]

REALY !!!!!!! I MUST TRY THIS ! QUICKDRAW TIME !

[More Dread]

yay its true.
the cockpit shake is almost gone on my spider.
time to play my favorite mech again!
thank you PGI!

[Zeus X]

PGI Has fixed the JJ shake.... JJ MECHS ARE BACK!!!! WHOOO HOOOO!!!

[Nebelfeuer]

Confirmed- no more headaces - would not have hurt to do it faster though - nonetheless good job.

[Ilithi Dragon]

Hmm... I'll have to give this reduce shake effect a look-see and test out how the revised shake impacts poptarting. Since it gave me minimal trouble before, I suspect that the only thing that will significantly bother me will be the randomized shot direction.

DeaconW, on 02 July 2013 - 04:07 AM, said:

No, the way I understand convergence as it works now is that any simultaneously fired weapons under the same arm or torso mount reticule hit the same point, regardless. This means if you have arm lock, all weapons can hit the same point. Every time. TT had a random aspect to this and so does real life. WRT PPC be OP, nerfing the PPC without addressing the convergence issue will just move another long range weapon into the PPC slot. I don't believe we can know if the PPC needs any changes until they fix perfect convergence. The good thing is, they already have the mechanic built to fix convergence...it is the random feature of the JJ shake patch. They just need to reduce the amount a lot in normal use.

*Edited for clarity.

Hmm... That's not how I understood convergence to work, and I agree with you, that's not how it should be. If you've got weapons in the arms, they should be converging with each other wherever the reticule is, at whatever range the object under the reticule is, but torso weapons should not converge, period, and arm weapons should only converge if they have lower actuators.

If that is not the case, if torso weapons and weapons in arms without a lower actuator are converging, then I agree with you that that needs changed, because that then effectively removes the distinction between mechs and mech variants that have more weapon hardpoints in the arms vs the torsos, particularly for fire support mechs.

So it seems like we are in agreement there, as well: Only weapons in arms with lower actuators should converge, all other weapons should fire straight ahead. Do you agree?

Also, do you agree that the PPC needs to be nerfed, reducing travel speed and increasing heat generation? I didn't see a clear answer from you on that, and if you do agree on that, I want to get it confirmed and out of the way so that we can stop talking past each other over it, and move on to more constructive dialogue (and also add it to the list of things that everyone agrees on that we can present to PGI).

[Kamies]

Yep. My first games with Jenner, Blackjack, TBT and Cataphract shows that jumpjetting mechs are well playable again and I was kicking arse in every one of them and didn't get sick. Still, the remaining amount of shake in Cataphract and Trebuchet is just pointless in my opinnion. The little amount of shake doesn't affect my aim almost at all but it has potential to give me headache and nausea after couple of hours of gaming. I will test this more tomorrow.

[IceSerpent]

Yep, confirmed. I can play my Jenner without getting a headache again. Thanks, PGI.

[sgt scout]

Ya i had a couple of games in my long missed Heavy metal. It is much better on my brain and eyes but i think i will have to give assults with jj,s a miss. The jj shake doesnt sit well with me still in assults, ill give jenner and treb a try but every ones gone PPC mad to test this over heat thing so i think ill just join em in boating PPC's all day till PGI do something.

[DeaconW]

Ilithi Dragon, on 02 July 2013 - 01:19 PM, said:

Also, do you agree that the PPC needs to be nerfed, reducing travel speed and increasing heat generation? I didn't see a clear answer from you on that, and if you do agree on that, I want to get it confirmed and out of the way so that we can stop talking past each other over it, and move on to more constructive dialogue (and also add it to the list of things that everyone agrees on that we can present to PGI).

I don't think anything should be done to the PPC until the convergence issue is fixed.

[Ilithi Dragon]

Oh, yeah, poptarting is back. The screen shake is all but gone. Reticule shake is still there, but it's a minor nuisance, and if it really gets bothersome, I'll take a colored sticker or something and cut out a small dot to stick on my screen where my reticule should be.

The only thing that will really be bothersome is the random aiming cone while JJing. Honestly, I don't think it's necessary, I think there are better ways to balance against poptarts than that. I also hate random aiming cones, period, because they take away the skill aspect and replace it with random chance, and when it comes to luck, I'm sure as hell not the Master Chief.


No, if they want to make aiming harder while JJing, add the mech's velocity to the weapons fired. Don't put in a random aiming cone, just make actual aiming harder. Adding mech velocity to weapon velocity would make aiming harder for all mechs, but the mechs most effected would be the snipers, and the poptarts the most among the snipers, because they would have to adjust their aim in three dimensions instead of just two. The amount you need to adjust for your movement is determined by your speed and the range, so fast mechs would have a larger adjustment to make at a given range, but most of them engage at ranges so short that the adjustment would still be small.

[Kunae]

It's much better than it was.

I could use the reticule shake gone too, but this is a step in the right direction.

[LastPaladin]

DeaconW, on 02 July 2013 - 04:18 AM, said:

So, am i understanding you correctly? You believe the game was *more* flexible and had *more* viable mech variants before the poptart nerf?

I wasn't talking about poptarts, but about that player's attitude (which many seem to share), which is, that if a mech or build is "too good" at some specific role, it needs to get nerfed in order to balance the game. Yes, there are legitimate cases where something is OP and unbalancing the game, and the poptarts could be an example of that. However, there are other cases, like a dual AC/20 build, where you have to make so many sacrfices already in your mech build, that any specialized advantage you gain is already balanced by the general disadvantages you incur.

Just to preempt trolls, I don't even play dual AC/20 builds. I tried them and found that I didn't like the playstyle much, so I run different builds on my Jagers instead. Besides, Gauss rifles are better than AC/20s in pretty much every circumstance, when you break it down.

[MonkeyCheese]

So im back on patch day after ragequiting 2 weeks ago and uninstalling thanks to the my spider makes me sick from assault/heavy jumpjet screenshake nerf thing to find nothing at all in the patch notes about this topic and a "weneedmoremoneybuyournewfounderspack"..... Almost dissapeared for another 2 weeks until I checked this thread and found this wonderful news from other players that something was actually tweaked!

Reinstalling now to see if it was the cockpit screenshake that was making me sick or the crosshair shake which I read is still there, but my first guess is that its still going to be the crosshairs.

I shall report my findings.

Edit install/download is slow for somereason gonna be a while

Edited by MonkeyCheese, 02 July 2013 - 03:33 PM.

[Event Horizon]

PGI Thank You! This recent patch jumpjet fix was a good compromise.