44 replies to this topic

[Sable Phoenix]

The PPC ought to be a beam weapon. It's a particle accelerator cannon. Particle accelerators function at or very near c, the speed of light. Transit time of the "projectile" should be instantaneous and deal its damage over time, just like the lasers do. This simple change would go a very long way towards balancing 6PPC Stalkers and alpha-sniping.

Edited by Sable Phoenix, 15 June 2013 - 12:41 PM.

[Stoicblitzer]

i think you just described a laser. not that i'm against what you're proposing.

[stjobe]

I made the same suggestion here: http://mwomercs.com/...orking-the-ppc/

It always was a beam weapon in lore, so I don't know why the PGI devs decided to make it a faux-ballistic. Perhaps it was the same devs that implemented the MG as a beam weapon...

[Pater Mors]

I am happy with the way it works at the moment but I would like to see it deal damage differently. As it is, it fires what is essentially a ball of plasma with a trail streaming out behind it. I'd like to see, say, the first 5pts of damage frontloaded into the 'ball' with the other 5pts dealt as the trail hits. That way, you're still getting a reasonable pinpoint hit, but it severely reduces the Alpha potency of loading 4 PPC's (from 40 instant pinpoint damage down to 20 instant and 20 spread).

Edit: Like this:

Edited by Pater Mors, 15 June 2013 - 01:58 PM.

[Stoicblitzer]

Pater Mors, on 15 June 2013 - 01:54 PM, said:

I am happy with the way it works at the moment but I would like to see it deal damage differently. As it is, it fires what is essentially a ball of plasma with a trail streaming out behind it. I'd like to see, say, the first 5pts of damage frontloaded into the 'ball' with the other 5pts dealt as the trail hits. That way, you're still getting a reasonable pinpoint hit, but it severely reduces the Alpha potency of loading 4 PPC's (from 40 instant pinpoint damage down to 20 instant and 20 spread).

Edit: Like this:

so you wouldn't be able to direct the extra 5 pts?

Edited by Stoicblitzer, 15 June 2013 - 02:03 PM.

[Pater Mors]

Stoicblitzer, on 15 June 2013 - 02:02 PM, said:

so you wouldn't be able to direct the extra 5 pts?

Well, it's not really extra because they do 10pts now but it's all instant. It would just make the first 5 function exactly as it does now and the second 5 function like a ML, all in the same shot. Best of both, so to speak.

Edit: wait, I get what you mean. No, once fired you couldn't control the trail. It would hit where it hits based on enemy movement etc. Standing still you'd still get the full 10pts on target but if the enemy was moving it'd spread across the torso/arms.

Edited by Pater Mors, 15 June 2013 - 02:05 PM.

[Stoicblitzer]

Pater Mors, on 15 June 2013 - 02:04 PM, said:

Edit: wait, I get what you mean. No, once fired you couldn't control the trail. It would hit where it hits based on enemy movement etc. Standing still you'd still get the full 10pts on target but if the enemy was moving it'd spread across the torso/arms.

seems like a good idea to me. wish it was changed right now.

[Lightfoot]

PPC


"The Particle Projector Cannon (or PPC) is a unique energy weapon. PPCs fire a concentrated stream of protons or ions at a target, causing damage through both thermal and kinetic energy. As such, despite being an energy weapon, it produces recoil. The lethality of the weapon rivals that of a higher-caliber autocannon; just three shots from a PPC will vaporize two tons of standard military-grade armor. Targets hit by multiple, simultaneous PPCs can also suffer electrical side-effects, such as overloaded computer systems or targeting sensors. The ion beam also extends to much farther ranges than autocannon fire, though PPCs generate large amounts of waste heat.

PPCs are equipped with a Field Inhibitor to prevent feedback which could damage the firing unit's electronic systems. This inhibitor degrades the performance of the weapon at close ranges of less than 90 meters. Particularly daring warriors have been known to disengage the inhibitor and risk damage to their own machine when a target is at close range."


Similar to High Caliber Autocannons. Let's not turn it into a Laser.

Everyone is over-reacting to the 6xPPC Stalker which is dead on Tuesday.

As is the PPC brings good balancing to MWO. Any mech can carry one, unlike Ballistics and Missile weapons, but the PPC has many of the qualities of a Ballistic, which is how it's described in Battletech. At the same time lasers do more damage per ton/space/heat and many players opt for Lasers instead. True the PPC is supposed to have instantaneous travel time, but I think that would be OP since it would take aiming skill out of it's use.

Essentially the PPC is a bolt of lightning.

Edited by Lightfoot, 15 June 2013 - 02:19 PM.

[Lightfoot]

Pater Mors, on 15 June 2013 - 01:54 PM, said:

I am happy with the way it works at the moment but I would like to see it deal damage differently. As it is, it fires what is essentially a ball of plasma with a trail streaming out behind it. I'd like to see, say, the first 5pts of damage frontloaded into the 'ball' with the other 5pts dealt as the trail hits. That way, you're still getting a reasonable pinpoint hit, but it severely reduces the Alpha potency of loading 4 PPC's (from 40 instant pinpoint damage down to 20 instant and 20 spread).

Edit: Like this:

The trail is just a visual artifact left in the atmosphere.

[Pater Mors]

Lightfoot, on 15 June 2013 - 02:17 PM, said:

The trail is just a visual artifact left in the atmosphere.

I know that, but this is a reasonable solution to keep both camps happy. Some people want the PPC to function as a beam weapon and other as a projectile weapon. This takes something from both sides of the fence.

[Stoicblitzer]

Lightfoot, on 15 June 2013 - 02:14 PM, said:

Everyone is over-reacting to the 6xPPC Stalker which is dead on Tuesday.

false. we care about the 2erppc2ppc stalker. next patch does nothing for that. it's a band-aid on the hoover dam.

[LordBraxton]

I still want a PPC that shoots a thunderous lightning bolt

IDK what is with the blue liquid PPC thing mechwarrior seems stuck on

every battletech novel describes it as a huge lightning cannon

Stoicblitzer, on 15 June 2013 - 02:20 PM, said:

false. we care about the 2erppc2ppc stalker. next patch does nothing for that. it's a band-aid on the hoover dam.

you mean 3ppc1erppc right?

[Stoicblitzer]

LordBraxton, on 15 June 2013 - 02:21 PM, said:

you mean 3ppc1erppc right?

you mean 3erppc1ppc right?

[stjobe]

Lightfoot, on 15 June 2013 - 02:14 PM, said:

Similar to High Caliber Autocannons.

The only thing that's mentioned as similar is the damage output, other than that it's described as "a concentrated streamof protons or ions", and "the ion beam".

It's shouldn't be a weapon that does instant damage, and neither should Autocannons. They should all be burst-fire.

Face it, we have a problem with pin-point damage, and it's the ballistics and the PPC who are the culprits. Lasers spread their damage over their beam duration and missiles have, well, spread.

The ballistics and the PPC however are pin-point, and they're the cause of a lot of troubles right now. Troubles that would go away if ballistics were reworked to use burst-fire over the same kinds of durations that lasers have beam duration, and the PPC reworked to be the beam weapon it is in lore.

[LordBraxton]

Stoicblitzer, on 15 June 2013 - 02:26 PM, said:

you mean 3erppc1ppc right?

too much heat man!

I never use erppcs personally so.... ill be running 3ppc1erppc on my cataphract post patch leoleoleoleol great idea PGI!

[Dude42]

Lightfoot, on 15 June 2013 - 02:14 PM, said:

PPC


"The Particle Projector Cannon (or PPC) is a unique energy weapon. PPCs fire a concentrated stream of protons or ions at a target, causing damage through both thermal and kinetic energy. As such, despite being an energy weapon, it produces recoil. The lethality of the weapon rivals that of a higher-caliber autocannon; just three shots from a PPC will vaporize two tons of standard military-grade armor. Targets hit by multiple, simultaneous PPCs can also suffer electrical side-effects, such as overloaded computer systems or targeting sensors. The ion beam also extends to much farther ranges than autocannon fire, though PPCs generate large amounts of waste heat.

PPCs are equipped with a Field Inhibitor to prevent feedback which could damage the firing unit's electronic systems. This inhibitor degrades the performance of the weapon at close ranges of less than 90 meters. Particularly daring warriors have been known to disengage the inhibitor and risk damage to their own machine when a target is at close range."


Similar to High Caliber Autocannons. Let's not turn it into a Laser.

Everyone is over-reacting to the 6xPPC Stalker which is dead on Tuesday.

As is the PPC brings good balancing to MWO. Any mech can carry one, unlike Ballistics and Missile weapons, but the PPC has many of the qualities of a Ballistic, which is how it's described in Battletech. At the same time lasers do more damage per ton/space/heat and many players opt for Lasers instead. True the PPC is supposed to have instantaneous travel time, but I think that would be OP since it would take aiming skill out of it's use.

Essentially the PPC is a bolt of lightning.

Note stream, not ball.

Not that I think changing the characteristics of the PPC projectile itself, beyond reducing its severely buffed speed(was 1200 m/s, now 2000 m/s) is the way go. I like the convergence based solutions best, because it also takes care of future cheese builds like quad guass. A purely cosmetic change, like making it look like a a lightning bolt is cool, although a somewhat slow moving lightning bolt might look silly.

My reasoning is quite simple, in TT the whole purpose of a PPC is to cause 10 damage to a single section. Any transforming it into a beam weapon would introduce the possibility of a single PPC spreading its damage over multiple sections, completely breaking it.

Edited by Dude42, 15 June 2013 - 02:34 PM.

[Stoicblitzer]

LordBraxton, on 15 June 2013 - 02:28 PM, said:

too much heat man!

I never use erppcs personally so.... ill be running 3ppc1erppc on my cataphract post patch leoleoleoleol great idea PGI!

l2manageheat nub. jk

[Stoicblitzer]

Dude42, on 15 June 2013 - 02:30 PM, said:

in TT

[stjobe]

Dude42, on 15 June 2013 - 02:30 PM, said:

My reasoning is quite simple, in TT the whole purpose of a PPC is to cause 10 damage to a single section. Any transforming it into a beam weapon would introduce the possibility of a single PPC spreading its damage over multiple sections, completely breaking it.

In TT, a large laser's whole purpose was to put 8 damage to a single section. Your reasoning fails.

[Coralld]

I have an idea, and no, I am not a 100% backing it my self as it really depends on how the penalties of the up coming heat penalty patch works. Any way, the idea is to keep the PPCs 10pts of damage ball of death, BUT, increase its heat, and when I mean increase its heat I am not talking about upping it back to TT levels I am talking about beyond that. Example, make it so that regular PPCs do 13 or 14 heat and make ER PPCs do 18 to 19 heat. To compensate the new increase in heat, increase the projectile speed from 2,000m/s to 2,500m/s.

Also, I think Paul we generalizing when he said PPCs, so that includes ER-PPCs as well. So 3x PPCs+ER-PPC=heat stacking penalty.