91 replies to this topic

[The Cheese]

Tegiminis, on 05 June 2013 - 01:17 AM, said:

I'm glad sniping isn't the scrub-tier push-2-win button it was in scrubbie pubbie matches.

Don't worry. It still is.

[Tegiminis]

The Cheese, on 05 June 2013 - 01:27 AM, said:

Don't worry. It still is.

My 4SP disagrees. It is doing quite well in the post-patch meta.

[Joseph Mallan]

SirLANsalot, on 04 June 2013 - 09:09 PM, said:

Poptarting, been around since 1999 (MW3)

Its nothing new, it was around for a long time. In CB it happened, but no one whined about it then, but we only had cats and jenners and a raven that had them. It was a non issue all the way until the true JJ master showed up, the highlander, then it somehow, magically.....like overnight, became the new battle-cry for the trolls.

JJ sniping happened in CB, and they were laughed off the field by LRM's and SRM's, and anything with a gauss (the K2 times). Its like one mech changed it, and another one will do it again. Nothings wrong with JJ sniping, its only an "issue" now because we don't have ALL the mechs in the game. So the builds for mechs are very samll and condensed down to just a select few. The Orion will change things, the Victor will change things, and the 8 Clan mechs with launch will change the whole WORLD.

So stop thinking JJ sniping is something new, that it was the worst thing since the streak cat (also another CB thing that was laughed at) when its been a tried and true tactic since 1999 and with 3P in MW4.

So a broken Mechanic for a long time. Please allow me this opportunity to paraphrase a well used axiom. This isn't MW4. The Pop Tart Mechanic was an exploit back in the day and MWO has made a fix. I an agree that a lighter Mech should shake less than an assault, but the difference should not be to drastic. We are rocketing a 30 ton vehicle into the air.

[Rippthrough]

InRev, on 04 June 2013 - 08:15 PM, said:

Considering how the Harrier is known to be one of the most unforgiving and difficult jets to fly, especially while performing VTOL, this was not exactly the best example to prove your point.

Ah yes, because two legged 100 ton battlemechs running across rough terrain are known to be so easy to build and control you can buy them in a DIY kit from ebay for $10.


As for all these 'aerospace engineers' in here, talking about flight surfaces and wobbling and all that ****. You're the worst aerospace engineers in the bloody world then, because the reason the flight surfaces are going like mad and the plane is wobbling is because the plane is balanced on top of the thrust column.
It's centre of gravity is much higher than the point at which thrust is applied. Of course it's bloody unstable.

Most mechs have jumpjets on the torsos, way above where the centre of gravity would be, even halfway up the legs is an improvement over either of the aircraft, they also have far smaller profiles in the vertical axis so they would be far MORE stable than the aircraft.
Aerospace engineers that can't do basic physics, that's encouraging. I'll take the train.

Edited by Rippthrough, 05 June 2013 - 03:57 AM.

[MaddMaxx]

InRev, on 04 June 2013 - 08:15 PM, said:

Considering how the Harrier is known to be one of the most unforgiving and difficult jets to fly, especially while performing VTOL, this was not exactly the best example to prove your point.

One could also imagine that during the very busy transition phase, from flight to hover, the Pilots ability to maintain his view out of the cockpit and direct his gun fire effectively, while also preventing the plane from simply crashing and burning on the first gust of wind that came along, would also be easy I suppose.

[Jestun]

Loxx, on 04 June 2013 - 08:07 PM, said:

We'll see. One thing I know, the goods will roll with the punches. The bads will keep trying to dumb down the game until it's Hello Kitty Online.

No, the "bads" will poptart and claim to be skilled and then whine and cry all over the forums when their lame-*** "tactic" gets nerfed.

[MaddMaxx]

Raso, on 04 June 2013 - 09:14 PM, said:

I never said it was new. In fact I'll flat out say this. Pop tarting helped to ruin MW4.

Poptarting is what Killed MW4. I was there. It sucked the very Life and Fun out of that game.

History was very near on the verge of repeating in MWO. Good save PGI, good save.

[Hotthedd]

I do not know how familiar you are with Harriers, but Harriers cannot fire their missiles while taking off, and do not "hover" in combat.

[Coolant]

lol...you move in a car, it shakes, you fly in a plane, it rumbles, you ride a bike it vibrates, you ride a skateboard it shakes lol. Stop bringing your degree in quantum physics into the equation, because it makes common sense that things shake when an engine is applied. You're mad because they nerfed ya...

Edited by Coolant, 05 June 2013 - 08:49 AM.

[Nehkrosis]

You know, i think its kinda funny.
I have always disliked the idea of, say, 6 LL Stalkers, 6PPCs Stalker, AC/40 jagers etc etc..

but that said, i only brawl. like pretty much exclusively, aside from my recently altered LRM 4sp ( )

and tbh, i dont think brawling is dead.
i mean, there is a high chance that player A ONLY boats long range weapons, he's going to suck alot of *** when you get up close.

does no one feel this way?
i have defeated MANY AC/40 Jagers, with my UAC/5 Jager S. no problem.

(and i am ashamed to say that i own a streakbapcat, i know, im scum)


oh, and also, most poptarters (popstars?) sucked. beans. when it came to pretty much any other aspect of MWO.
so they only really actually were a threat when you (foolishly) walked around in the open, and did not utilize cover. or there were 3 of them.

Edited by Nehkrosis, 05 June 2013 - 08:59 AM.

[General Taskeen]

Lulz. The "shake" was taken from MW:LL. Its not like the idea popped out of thin air or did not exist in a Mech game previously. Before completely exploding, please review those JJ's first. Part of the problem is that A. A factor is added to mitigate the "poptart" in MWO and B. There is nothing added to enhance JJ mobility/evasion at the same time (AKA, fun feature factor). That's what people should be asking for, an overhaul of JJ mobility/evasion programming, which according to the ATD39 they might be experimenting with.

Edited by General Taskeen, 05 June 2013 - 08:57 AM.

[Trauglodyte]

Loxx, on 04 June 2013 - 08:07 PM, said:

Many of the poptart haters have claimed that a continuous vectored thrust would cause "shake" in the vehicle while under the thrust load moment. Allow me to present the Harrier Jump Jet.

http://m.youtube.com...h?v=QVr671ceK9I

By all means please explain where the shake is?

It doesn't bother me that poptarting is practically dead. It was getting boring and honestly I was terrible at it. What I am worried about is the continuous dumbing down of the game with heavy handed nerfs because people would rather complain and create new physical laws out of thin air then engage their brain housing group and come up with creative methods to counter viable tactics. I just hope your happy with what the future is going to bring now that poptarts are gone.
Atlas online?
Splat / streak online?
LRM online?

We'll see. One thing I know, the goods will roll with the punches. The bads will keep trying to dumb down the game until it's Hello Kitty Online.

Directional thrust, control surfaces, on-board flight mechanics, stabalization controls etc MEETS large walking robot with a single direction thrust port. Yeah, you just failed miserably. Maybe next time you try to bring the real world into a scifi game (yeah, funny, I know), how about you know something about something first? The door is that way ---------------------->

[Vodrin Thales]

SirLANsalot, on 04 June 2013 - 09:09 PM, said:

Poptarting, been around since 1999 (MW3)

Its nothing new, it was around for a long time. In CB it happened, but no one whined about it then, but we only had cats and jenners and a raven that had them. It was a non issue all the way until the true JJ master showed up, the highlander, then it somehow, magically.....like overnight, became the new battle-cry for the trolls.

JJ sniping happened in CB, and they were laughed off the field by LRM's and SRM's, and anything with a gauss (the K2 times). Its like one mech changed it, and another one will do it again. Nothings wrong with JJ sniping, its only an "issue" now because we don't have ALL the mechs in the game. So the builds for mechs are very samll and condensed down to just a select few. The Orion will change things, the Victor will change things, and the 8 Clan mechs with launch will change the whole WORLD.

So stop thinking JJ sniping is something new, that it was the worst thing since the streak cat (also another CB thing that was laughed at) when its been a tried and true tactic since 1999 and with 3P in MW4.

It's not new, but it was far too common because it was far too easy. I think the cockpit shake needs to be reduced slightly, but I am fine with the aiming penalties. Skilled jump snipers will still be effective after the change and those who are mediocre will abandon it for something easier.

Sounds like a good change to me.

MaddMaxx, on 05 June 2013 - 07:42 AM, said:

Poptarting is what Killed MW4. I was there. It sucked the very Life and Fun out of that game.

History was very near on the verge of repeating in MWO. Good save PGI, good save.

QFT

[Odins Fist]

Loxx, on 04 June 2013 - 08:07 PM, said:

Many of the poptart haters have claimed that a continuous vectored thrust would cause "shake" in the vehicle while under the thrust load moment. Allow me to present the Harrier Jump Jet.

http://m.youtube.com...h?v=QVr671ceK9I

By all means please explain where the shake is?

Not only are you "NOT" taking in to account for the placement of the Vectoring jets on a Harrier, you are not acounting for the balancing VS placement.

The Highlander for example has Jump Jets on it's feet (underneath), and it's back (appear to not be able to point downward completely), and from a visual standpoint it appears that the Jump Jets in their placement would not provide as much stability, especially for something shaped the way a Higlander is shaped (Veritcal), while the Harrier is balanced to a much better degree in relation to it's vectoring jets placement.

Not only would I expect the Highlander to be quite unstable, but at a quick glancing it doesn't appear that the vectoring jets on a Highlander have enough variable movement for a stable flight or hover.

I'd be quite surprised that that most (if not all) Mechs with Jump Jets would actually be able to sustain any type of stability in relation to their placement, and ability to vector enough to acheive any stability whatsoever.

In fact if you look at the Highlanders Jump Jet placement, I'm surprised it doesn't Jump vertically into an arc and land on it's face, every single time. Oh, and the Vectoring Jets under the feet..?? It seems like they would get packed full of dirt and debris after taking 3 steps, you do realize it's 90 tons correct..???

There just isn't the balance due to placement of vectoring jets, and shape of the mech, don't get me started on the Catapult, that thing would flip over on it's face as well.

I consider "YOUR" argument to be invalid due to the lack of comparison between the Harrier and "ANY" of the mechs with Vectoring Jets. Also the obvious display of 2 dimensional thinking on your part.

This is a video game though, not based on reality, so they can put anything they want into MWO that they want.
I mean, since when did they stick to Battletech/TT/Mechwarrior specs and lore..??

Edited by Odins Fist, 05 June 2013 - 09:12 AM.

[Novakaine]

Loxx, on 04 June 2013 - 08:07 PM, said:

Many of the poptart haters have claimed that a continuous vectored thrust would cause "shake" in the vehicle while under the thrust load moment. Allow me to present the Harrier Jump Jet.

http://m.youtube.com...h?v=QVr671ceK9I

By all means please explain where the shake is?

It doesn't bother me that poptarting is practically dead. It was getting boring and honestly I was terrible at it. What I am worried about is the continuous dumbing down of the game with heavy handed nerfs because people would rather complain and create new physical laws out of thin air then engage their brain housing group and come up with creative methods to counter viable tactics. I just hope your happy with what the future is going to bring now that poptarts are gone.
Atlas online?
Splat / streak online?
LRM online?

We'll see. One thing I know, the goods will roll with the punches. The bads will keep trying to dumb down the game until it's Hello Kitty Online.

Bad example kiddo battlemechs only provide vertical thrust not lateral ie no vectored thrust at all.
According to my neighbor who happens to be an astronaut........
"That sucker will shake the sh........ Out of ya."

[jakucha]

You can't really argue fully for reality in a Mechwarrior game, and writers can pick and choose exactly how the tech works as they please. So far no Mechwarrior game has gone for one hundred percent "realistic" sim (though I would like to see a game like that).

[SgtMaster]

I think PGI should introduce wind velocity to affect PPC's flight path...
and maybe knock down mechs with large surface areas...

Edited by SgtMaster, 05 June 2013 - 09:43 AM.

[jakucha]

SgtMaster, on 05 June 2013 - 09:42 AM, said:

I think PGI should introduce wind velocity to affect PPC's flight path...
and maybe knock down mechs with large surface areas...

It's been mentioned big hits like ac/20s will have the possibility to knock down mechs when falling is brought back.

[tenderloving]

Steel Claws, on 04 June 2013 - 08:43 PM, said:

Sorry but this whole nerf was stupid. The people who complained were a minority but a vocal minority.

We've had an abundance of polls and threads regarding this that prove you wrong. If believe that a majority of the playerbase were happy with 1 tactic/build philosophy ruling over all others and limiting viable competitive choices, then I have a {insert scam targeted at the feeble-minded} to sell you.

With that said, the shake may not be the best fix, or the most realistic, but it's a fix.

Edited by tenderloving, 05 June 2013 - 10:00 AM.

[giganova]

I agree with the OP.

Also: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gyroscope